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Does anyone else loathe the Aiel?


Miltiades
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I'm on book 6 in my second read through of the series and I realized that I absolutely hate the Aiel.

 

I mean, how the hell can a bunch of nomads with crappy equipment, no armour, no cavalry and no cities defeat the wetland nations?

 

What would be the Aiel's answer to archers? Since they only carry small hide bucklers and wear pajamas into battle. I don't care how skilled a warrior you are, I don't care how young you were when you learned to fight and I don't care how arid and inhospitable your homeland is, if you get shot at under those circumstances you are going to die.

 

Not fielding cavalry is another massive disadvantage, that is an entire arm of your military that you just don't have. You only have to look at our history to see that no matter how good your infantry is, you'll get your ass handed to you if your enemy fields cavalry and you don't. How would the Aiel deal with armoured knights? They seem to use their spears to fight individually and not in any sort of formation (another terrible idea) so they'd be mowed down by a charge from, let's say, some Shienaran heavy cavalry.

 

 

I find it fairly infuriating how Jordan bangs on constantly about how tough the Aiel are. Them and the Asha'man really. But I can accept that the Asha'man are as powerful as he says they are because their power comes from channeling and Jordan decides all the the powers and limits of channeling, so the Asha'man are as badass as he wants them to be.

 

I think in my first read through I was on book 3 or 4 before I realized the Aiel were meant to be humans. Until then I thought they were a separate species like the Ogier.

 

 

 

Does anybody else feel this way? Or am I just a racist?

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Their customs would be a better reason to hate them.

 

How can the Aiel defeat the nations?

In the books, it has not been the Aiel alone; though they seem good at battle.

They have quick reflexes and are good at hiding.

 

Their strength seems reasonable to me since they grew up in a harsh environment.

 

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I'm not fond of the faction that split off. But no; I don't really have a problem with Aiel as a whole.

I like it that they have no monarchy; that their leadership is chosen by different methods than birthright.

 

I think we are supposed to feel shocked that their customs are foreign to the wetlanders. Those of the Seanchan are even more foreign. Yet in both cases, we begin to meet characters with whom we begin to find their humanity. They have good qualities and also flaws.

 

As far as the military angle, it might be better to think of them as exercising guerilla warfare to some extent. There is no question of Jordan's knowledge of military science. One can well imagine that there may be encounters in which the Aiel could be destroyed, but it has not yet happened.

 

Maybe the fact that you did not get it at first that they were human as well is something for you to think more about. Why was that? Because they wear cotton (algodon)? Because they run everywhere? I have known guys who do that. LOL

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I mean, how the hell can a bunch of nomads with crappy equipment, no armour, no cavalry and no cities defeat the wetland nations?
You mean like in Vietnam?

 

What would be the Aiel's answer to archers?
They do have bows of their own, and the only bows whose range is specifically emphasized are the Two Rivers bows which are only used there. They hide well also.

 

I don't care how skilled a warrior you are, I don't care how young you were when you learned to fight
That might be part of your problem in asking this question. When I first read of them I immediately thought of Sparta. And I do think it makes a big difference when someone does war/battle/fighting in general 24/7 since the time they are a child vs someone who trains for a few years (if they didn't just "sign up") and sees action maybe a few times a year if that.

 

You only have to look at our history to see that no matter how good your infantry is, you'll get your ass handed to you if your enemy fields cavalry and you don't.
That's what the guy in Braveheart said before he got his head split.

 

They seem to use their spears to fight individually and not in any sort of formation (another terrible idea)
Lan explains a tactic they favor to Rand, complete with different divisions executing different maneuvers.

 

As far as the military angle, it might be better to think of them as exercising guerilla warfare to some extent.
  Agree. And I think the points about bows, and heavy cavalry ARE valid points, I just don't think the Aiel stay put long enough for those things to be as effective as they might normally be. I see the Aiel as very hit and run as opposed to line up a huge force and charge.

 

That being said I do think there is a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. They are the most badass because they are supposed to be. That's their cliche role.

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You're not racist. You just don't like the Aiel.

 

However, I'll try to answer your questions one by one.

 

What would be the Aiel's answer to archers? Since they only carry small hide bucklers and wear pajamas into battle. I don't care how skilled a warrior you are, I don't care how young you were when you learned to fight and I don't care how arid and inhospitable your homeland is, if you get shot at under those circumstances you are going to die.

 

On the topic of archers, Aiel have bows of their own. They can and are able to return volleys of arrows. Also, one of the keys to the Aiel's success is their strategy. They like to engage from the front while also sending large forces to attack the flanks and rear, the places where archers normally are placed. Also, you must remember that prior to Mat Cauthon and the Band of the Red Hand, bowmen were only about 20% of infantry so they had little impact. Finally, no nation utilizes the longbow. That means that their range is not as far and the Aiel are very fast runners if you remember.

 

Not fielding cavalry is another massive disadvantage, that is an entire arm of your military that you just don't have. You only have to look at our history to see that no matter how good your infantry is, you'll get your ass handed to you if your enemy fields cavalry and you don't. How would the Aiel deal with armoured knights? They seem to use their spears to fight individually and not in any sort of formation (another terrible idea) so they'd be mowed down by a charge from, let's say, some Shienaran heavy cavalry.

 

Cavalry is not the end all of ancient/medieval warfare. At the Battle of Crecy and following battles of the Hundred Years War, the French cavalry was annihilated due to superb tactics by the English and the use of longbows. That war signified the end of the end of the Golden age of cavalry and chivalry. The Shienarans are the only nation that utilizes heavy cavalry and battle between them and the Aiel is not regular. I'm not completely sure how the Aiel deal with heavy cavalry, but I can research how similar warriors faught. However, they seem to be very effective because of how the Shaido defeated a cavalry force early in Mat's first battle as commander of the Band before a rear charge. Also, the Aiel have the ability to pepper cavalry before they close with their bows and short spears.

 

If you want to see how a force similar to the Aiel fare look at the Zulus. The Aiel are essentially based on them and they were possibly one of the most courageous, deadly force that ever lived. They defeated the post powerful nation/empire at the time (Great Britain) while they were only armed with assegais (spears similar to the Aiel's) and large bucklers for lack of a better word. The British had rifles yet Shaka Zulu was able to defeat them multiple times. In history, it is often seen that surperb tactics and brave hearts can win nearly battle solely.

 

Finally, the Aiel are the most physically imposing people in Randland. Warfare is one of the few constants in their lives and the Aiel Waste is not soft. As Aviendha said, "The soft die here." Nearly anything there can kill you and that made the Aiel into a group of very lethal warriors. It's quite ironic to see how they changed from their peaceful origins to this as many of the Forsaken observe.

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Again I find myself on the same wave length with MatsLuck!  ;)

 

I had initially mentioned the Vietnamese in my post, but decided to shorten it.

When the Vietnamese first began to fight the French, they only had bows and arrows, (along with the love of their home and their people and the will to fight any invading forces).

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The Vietnamese were on their turf. No doubt any invasion of the waste would fail utterly. What I am talking about is the Aiel war twenty years before the events of the books where the Aiel march over the Dragonwall and put the smackdown on everybody.

 

Would the Vietnamese guerrilla tactics have worked on American soil, even if they could get there?

 

 

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Guierrilla tactics on American soil worked pretty well for American's in the Revolution. Actually, and I'm no war buff Maude would know better, I can't think of ever hearing where guierrilla tactics didn't work.

 

Yes, once again, to repel enemies from the terriatory, could the revolutionaries have taken the fight to the British with such tactics? Guerrilla tactics work against invaders. You can't launch an invasion based on guerrilla tactics. Obviously if the wetlanders invaded the waste they'd get owned. My point was how could the Aiel just walk over the Dragonwall and own everyone, considering their military is so unsophisticated and their equipment so poor.

 

 

 

You can always pull up examples where weakness like poor equipment or lack of cavalry were overcome. It's just far more common for you to be slaughtered if you don't have them.

 

 

For example, someone else mentioned the battle of Crecy, but it was ultimately French overconfidence and stupidity that lost them that battle. Considering the French knights themselves killed their Italian mercenaries, which was their only counter to the longbowmen. You can't always rely on your enemies army to start killing each other in the middle of the fight.

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You can't launch an invasion based on guerrilla tactics. Obviously if the wetlanders invaded the waste they'd get owned. My point was how could the Aiel just walk over the Dragonwall and own everyone, considering their military is so unsophisticated and their equipment so poor.

 

You could argue that Mat and Ituralde (?) are both launching offensive guerrilla wars right now. And I don't see the Aiel "army" as unsophisticated at all. As I said I think they are much more experienced than anyone on the other side. Also, in the Aiel war, I think they came over and just started sacking Carhein. I don't think the nations had any idea it was coming and it would take them quite some time to unite and organize. Aiel caught them with their pants down. That's their style, hit hard, hit fast, disappear. And the French overconfidence you mentioned...we have every reason to believe that the nations were also very overconfident in facing the "savages". And I do believe in this type of warfare (hand to hand physical combat) those things like strength of will and physical ability are much bigger factors than they might be in today's wars.
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matsluck makes a good point... even 20 years after the aiel wars the cairhiens still maintain a nose towards the sky kind of attitude against the aiel.. even going so far as to claim victory over them in the wars...the aiel are new enemies of the wetlands and they are grossly underestimated by all the wetlanders... that is why they are "invincible"

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The Aiel are far from unsophisticated nor are their weapons poor. As I mentioned earlier, their tactics ar every nearly hard to beat and their weapons fit directly in with that. Arthur Hawkwing, perhaps the greaatest genral of all time was defeated by them as were the Trollocs in the Trolloc Wars.

 

The Westlands were not ready for an invasion as Matsluck pointed out, that factored in with the fact that none except for the Shienarans had ever fought let alone seen the Aiel helped in the devastation that was the Aiel War.

 

Also, prior to the advent of the Dragon Reborn, nations of the "wetlands" did not have standing armies other than the Borderlanders and those were used against the Shadow. The majority of the troops in the Aiel War were retainers of nobles, levies and militia so they were very inferior to the Aiel who were warriors from birth.

 

As for guerilla warfare, Wikipedia says that "guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat in which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger and less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (stealth and surprise) and mobility (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory." By that definition, warfare of that type can be offensive or defensive. However, in most cases it is defensive though. I would agree that Mat and Ituralde were undergoing temporary hit and run (guerilla) campaigns as part of a larger plan which, in both cases, they succeeded.

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Sometimes I dislike the Aiel because of ji'e'toh.  There is something that irks me about such a controlling system.  It's as if they are all brainwashed.  I can only disapprove of a culture which raises a woman like Avi, who is willing to take a knife because of a stupid love triangle.  Another example is Mangin, who commits outright murder because of a perceived insult, but is unable to understand his punishment.  The amount of stress and emotional pain caused by ji'e'toh is unacceptable.

 

I do like their sense of humor, though.  And any culture that enjoys whiskey can't be all bad.

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The Aiel are far from unsophisticated nor are their weapons poor. As I mentioned earlier, their tactics ar every nearly hard to beat and their weapons fit directly in with that. Arthur Hawkwing, perhaps the greaatest genral of all time was defeated by them as were the Trollocs in the Trolloc Wars.

 

The Westlands were not ready for an invasion as Matsluck pointed out, that factored in with the fact that none except for the Shienarans had ever fought let alone seen the Aiel helped in the devastation that was the Aiel War.

 

Also, prior to the advent of the Dragon Reborn, nations of the "wetlands" did not have standing armies other than the Borderlanders and those were used against the Shadow. The majority of the troops in the Aiel War were retainers of nobles, levies and militia so they were very inferior to the Aiel who were warriors from birth.

 

As for guerilla warfare, Wikipedia says that "guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat in which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger and less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (stealth and surprise) and mobility (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory." By that definition, warfare of that type can be offensive or defensive. However, in most cases it is defensive though. I would agree that Mat and Ituralde were undergoing temporary hit and run (guerilla) campaigns as part of a larger plan which, in both cases, they succeeded.

 

Ok, if what you say is true about the wetlander armies only having half-trained militia, then yes the Aiel would maul them. Are you certain that's the case though? The forces that the Cairheinin and Tairens field against Couladin seem to be comprised of professional soliders. Don't the Cairheinin shave the fronts of their heads when they become soldiers? That certainly suggests that soldiering is a career in Cairhein, where were all those guys?

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Ok, if what you say is true about the wetlander armies only having half-trained militia, then yes the Aiel would maul them. Are you certain that's the case though? The forces that the Cairheinin and Tairens field against Couladin seem to be comprised of professional soliders. Don't the Cairheinin shave the fronts of their heads when they become soldiers? That certainly suggests that soldiering is a career in Cairhein, where were all those guys?

 

I've spent the last quarter century in the military and, although I didn't graduate from the Citadel, I consider myself a student of military history.

 

Before the advent of air combat, and still to a large degree, the single most decisive factor in any battle is knowledge of the ground.  The Aiel, like them or not, are masters of both reconnaissance and using terrain to their advantage.  The professional soldiers of both Cairhein and Tear are used to lining up on opposite sides of a relatively flat, open field and charging, which was really the only use for heavy cavalry.  Open field warfare and breaking up infantry formations.

 

While I don't necessarily believe that the wetlanders fielded forces primarily composed of half-trained militia (although there was some), I do believe the reason they got schwacked was the unconventional tactics and warfare utilized by the Shaido in that battle.

 

And to address the topic, I do not loathe the Aiel; I have deep respect for a society (even a fantasy one) that reveres honor and integrity the way they do.

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I think the Aiel are great; I think ji'e'toh is a brilliant idea and to be honest I dont see why the wetlanders-and Rand especially, since he isnt daft-dont understand it. I like the way they boast, the way they set their own punishment, and their sense of humor.

 

I can only disapprove of a culture which raises a woman like Avi, who is willing to take a knife because of a stupid love triangle

 

Yet if you really think about Maidens of the spear, they are extremely considerate. A woman like Aviendha chooses to be the way she is, to take up the spear and become a warrior. And because of that, they are not allowed to wed, and must have their child adopted; it sounds harsh but if you think about it, it is a mercy to the child and the husband she never had; you have to divorce the spear before you can settle down with a family, otehrwise the family you start will suffer because you died living the life you chose.

 

The Aiel are probably my favorite culture in Wheel of Time

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I like the Aiel. The fact that they do not have a nobility feels right. Each leader has to prove himself worthy before he or she can lead anything.

 

What is found the most interesting though was how they feel that killing and dying are both equally easy and thus have no honor associated with them.

 

I don't see why anyone'd say they're weapons are inferior. Its not like Tairens or anyone else are packing Nukes or something. All in all, I'd say the difference between military technology is easily overcome in this case by experience and knowledge.

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Other than the sneaking Shaido, I think the Aiel are great.  And I believe Mangin understood his punishment.  He did what he felt like he needed to do, and accepted the consequences.  It's like that "take what you want, and pay for it" people are always talking about.

 

Also, the wetlander nations are fully as arrogant as the French.  

 

The people I can't stand are the Atha'an Miere. Many of them seem nasty just to be nasty, and arrogant to boot.  Very similar to Nobility and Aes Sedai.  It seems to be a continuing theme that those who have power over others almost always become abusive of it.  The Aiel seem to be the least like that.  Other than the Shaido.  Even the Wise Ones really only treat their apprentices that way, and that's part of their education.

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I have to agree about the Aes Sedai. What really annoyed me was the bonding of the Ashaman thing.

 

It was OK for the AS to bond the Ashaman but the other way "would bring all back to a matter of equality and that was unacceptable." It's like they haven't realized that they're not the big kids in the playground anymore. Even the 'good' characters like Nynaeve, Cadsuane and Egwene demonstrate this attitude towards the Ashaman.

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I think everyone is overplaying the whole guerrilla/unconventional tactics thing. Were it made clear that this was how they won I would be far more willing to accept an overwhelming Aiel victory in the Aiel war. But in the books, the Aiel win every fight just out of personal badassedness.

 

For example, I can't remember where this is said but at one point Lan says something to the effect of ''Have you seen a charge by Stone Dogs or Red Shields? As well try to stop an avalanche''.

 

Really? Why? Just shoot them. What are they going to do?

 

Or alternatively have some close order heavy infantry with proper equipment take the charge. Or just counter charge with some cavalry and mow them down.

 

There's also the time when Gaul and his friend pummel 20 well armed and armoured soldiers just before Perrin meets him when THEY were the ones who were surprised. Or five minutes later when Gaul whoops 10 well armed and armoured professional soldiers (The children of the light) with his bare hands after having been stuck in a cage without food or water for a day.

 

 

 

In the books the Aiel win just because they're badass, not because they use any kind of brilliant tactics. I'm saying it completely unbelievable that people with rubbish equipment, no armour, no cavalry, no knowledge of large scale warfare and only one kind of solider could smackdown all the wetland nations that have proper militaries without breaking a sweat.

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I don't loathe the Aiel.  I do think they are a bit contrived, but there are explanations.

 

Yes, once again, to repel enemies from the terriatory, could the revolutionaries have taken the fight to the British with such tactics? Guerrilla tactics work against invaders. You can't launch an invasion based on guerrilla tactics. Obviously if the wetlanders invaded the waste they'd get owned. My point was how could the Aiel just walk over the Dragonwall and own everyone, considering their military is so unsophisticated and their equipment so poor.

Hm.  A good point, but not entirely valid.  Anyways, I see the Aiel winning because of a number of factors.

1) The nations were divided.  Look at them now under Rand.  Look at what their command structure was like during the Aiel War - a different leader every battle.  Whereas the Aiel were united under Janduin.

2) The Aiel army is comprised of professional soldiers who are trained in the use of the bow, the spear, the buckler.  The wetlanders have the bulk of their army comprised of conscripts who are pikemen.  Even the professional soldiers only really have one job, whereas the Aiel are much more adaptable.

3) The Aiel do not fear death the way the wetlanders do.  They don't break under heavy fighting.  Morale is huge in warfare.

4) The wetlanders use awful tactics, with a few exceptions.  Aiel have proven themselves to have excellent battle leaders.

 

For example, someone else mentioned the battle of Crecy, but it was ultimately French overconfidence and stupidity that lost them that battle.

This is a major theme in WOT battles.  Take a look at most of the Cairhienin and Tairen - they are both overconfident AND stupid.  They believe in the charge, and only the charge, and that the charge will crush their enemies.

 

Ok, if what you say is true about the wetlander armies only having half-trained militia, then yes the Aiel would maul them. Are you certain that's the case though? The forces that the Cairheinin and Tairens field against Couladin seem to be comprised of professional soliders. Don't the Cairheinin shave the fronts of their heads when they become soldiers? That certainly suggests that soldiering is a career in Cairhein, where were all those guys?

The majority of the Cairhienin and Tairen are milita, IIRC.  There are a number of professional soldiers, but most of the Aiel are professional soldiers.  Like someone said before, a hard land breeds a hard people.

 

I can only disapprove of a culture which raises a woman like Avi, who is willing to take a knife because of a stupid love triangle.  Another example is Mangin, who commits outright murder because of a perceived insult, but is unable to understand his punishment.  The amount of stress and emotional pain caused by ji'e'toh is unacceptable.

The Aiel don't view it as stress and emotional pain - since they live in such a hard environment, one would have to assume that death and suffering are never very far off.  They just learned to deal with it, and (for the most part) to respect one another.  Though I agree, some of their "rules" are a bit over the top.

 

 

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Really? Why? Just shoot them. What are they going to do?

Perrin vs. Shaido.  Of course, he had both the high ground and the range advantage.  And guess what?  The Aiel backed off, and forced him to come to them.  If the situation was different, I can also see them keeping the charge up and mauling the archers in close combat.

 

Or alternatively have some close order heavy infantry with proper equipment take the charge.

Mat vs. Couladin.  It worked in a small scale battle under the circumstances.  The problem is that Mat had to control all the Cairhienins who wanted to take the fight to the Aiel and he had to give Couladin a reason to charge in without thinking.

 

Or just counter charge with some cavalry and mow them down.

Shaido vs. Perrin proves the Aiel know how to adapt.  They would not charge into the cavalry, necessarily. 

 

Or five minutes later when Gaul whoops 10 well armed and armoured professional soldiers (The children of the light) with his bare hands after having been stuck in a cage without food or water for a day.

Yeah, a little over the top.  On the other hand, Perrin kills two children when he's had barely any training or battle experience in TEOTW, so maybe they're just not so great as fighters.

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The whole reason Perrin killed those whitecloaks was because it was pitch black and he had the advantage of his nigh vision from his golden eyes. So they didn't know what they were doing, also IIRC he got kind of temporarily taken over by the ''wolf within'' which you could say it like when Rand suddenly is able to channel like a master because Lews Therin takes over.

 

Gaul on the other hand just walks in and kicks and whole lot of ass. He is Aiel, therefore he wins, no further explanation required.

 

Also, though your examples are valid, are we to assume then that Lan was just talking crap? That it's actually fairly easy to stop an Aiel charge, just have bows that outrange theirs or field some proper infantry in a proper formation. All this is basic stuff. How have Trollocs not overrun the entire world outside the waste if the wetlanders are so utterly incompetent at warfare?

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Also, though your examples are valid, are we to assume then that Lan was just talking crap? That it's actually fairly easy to stop an Aiel charge, just have bows that outrange theirs or field some proper infantry in a proper formation. All this is basic stuff. How have Trollocs not overrun the entire world outside the waste if the wetlanders are so utterly incompetent at warfare?

You have to have the right wood for the bow.  You have to train your men in the use of bow.  And most importantly (from the Shienaran POV) you give up mobility to use a longbow.  The Shienarans use horsebows because they frequently face up with Trollocs.  Don't forget the Two Rivers was (until recently) a pretty secluded place with no experience in warfare.  Also, I pointed out that Perrin had the advantage of the high ground and the Aiel backed down and waited for him to attack them.  That doesn't mean he won the battle, he just stopped their charge.

 

As for the proper formation, I pointed out that it worked under the circumstances.  Why?  Because Couladin was crazed with his desire to kill Rand and because Mat told the Cairhienin to shut up and stand their ground, rather than charge aimlessly at the Aiel.

 

Wetlanders aren't incompetent at warfare.  They know one form of warfare that works against mostly undisciplined conscripted pikemen, and they use it blindly.  They aren't methodical, and they just don't think outside the box enough.  Whereas the Seanchan do.  The Aiel do.  The Borderlanders do.  The Great Generals do.  But Cairhien, Tear, even Andor do not.

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Also, though your examples are valid, are we to assume then that Lan was just talking crap? That it's actually fairly easy to stop an Aiel charge, just have bows that outrange theirs or field some proper infantry in a proper formation. All this is basic stuff. How have Trollocs not overrun the entire world outside the waste if the wetlanders are so utterly incompetent at warfare?

You have to have the right wood for the bow.  You have to train your men in the use of bow.  And most importantly (from the Shienaran POV) you give up mobility to use a longbow.  The Shienarans use horsebows because they frequently face up with Trollocs.  Don't forget the Two Rivers was (until recently) a pretty secluded place with no experience in warfare.  Also, I pointed out that Perrin had the advantage of the high ground and the Aiel backed down and waited for him to attack them.  That doesn't mean he won the battle, he just stopped their charge.

 

As for the proper formation, I pointed out that it worked under the circumstances.  Why?  Because Couladin was crazed with his desire to kill Rand and because Mat told the Cairhienin to shut up and stand their ground, rather than charge aimlessly at the Aiel.

 

Wetlanders aren't incompetent at warfare.  They know one form of warfare that works against mostly undisciplined conscripted pikemen, and they use it blindly.  They aren't methodical, and they just don't think outside the box enough.  Whereas the Seanchan do.  The Aiel do.  The Borderlanders do.  The Great Generals do.  But Cairhien, Tear, even Andor do not.

 

 

So use crossbows. Any peasant given 15 minutes instruction can be proficient with a crossbow, that is why it was popular in Europe despite being clearly inferior to good bows. A large crossbow can also outrange most bows.

 

Also, as I keep pointing out the Aiel were the invaders. You cant wait for the enemy to come to you, that defeats the whole point of an invasion. The Aiel crossed the Dragonwall to kill Laman. What exactly did they plan on doing when the Cairhienin put an army in between them and Cairhien? How would they get past it? However you look at it not using cavalry is a massivedisadvantage, not having armour is a massive disadvantage. Not fighting in close order is a massive disadvantage. Even not using swords is a massive disadvantage, if you don't fight in a rigid formation spears are unwieldy and ineffective against swords. And if Aiel ever formed a rigid formation they could be easily cut down by simply shooting them as they don't have proper shields and wear pajamas into battle, as I pointed out before.

 

Basically, all I'm saying is that there are too many glaring holes in the Aiel style of warfare (no doubt excellent though it is for desert skirmishes) for me to be able to accept that they could just sashay over the Dragonwall and cream all the wetlanders without breaking a sweat. Jordan constantly tells us the Aiel didn't even consider it a war, he always makes it clear that they simply annihilated everything sent against them, hands down, easily, no problem.

 

Thats just too much to believe from a bunch of desert dwelling nomads in pajamas.

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