Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Miltiades

Member
  • Content Count

    51
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Miltiades

  • Birthday 01/01/1
  1. Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. Being bigger does not automatically mean better in a battle. For example the Romans, who were very short people, kicked the asses of Celts, who were generally much bigger than they were. Greeks prized short and stocky men in their phalanxes because a low center of gravity is better in a pushing match, I know the Aiel dont fight in phalanxes, but still, the claim that those who were shorter and more compact would have a significant disadvantage when fighting is ludicrous. In the waste, tall people would have ended up skinny and emaciated as they wouldn't have found enough sustenance to put muscle across their larger frames. You want your calorie requirements to be a low as possible when your food intake is going to be erratic. You just wont find enough food to fuel a big body. I think in general he might have meant smaller. There is no doubt that larger animals have an advantage against smaller animals and we are talking about fighting; smaller people would be at a significant disadvantage, less mass and shorter reaches are two very significant disadvantages to start off with. Sure there could be some relevant example of where a smaller guy beat a bigger guy because of this one exception, but this is an entire population. Also does it say anywhere that food is scarce in the Waste? Yeah, it's called the Waste, so you can imagine. But it is not like they say "May you always find something to eat." Just wondering. Anywhere water is scarce, food is scarce. Water is life, no water, no life. We eat other living things to survive, so there is only as much food as there is water to support these other things to be eaten.
  2. Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. Being bigger does not automatically mean better in a battle. For example the Romans, who were very short people, kicked the asses of Celts, who were generally much bigger than they were. Greeks prized short and stocky men in their phalanxes because a low center of gravity is better in a pushing match, I know the Aiel dont fight in phalanxes, but still, the claim that those who were shorter and more compact would have a significant disadvantage when fighting is ludicrous. In the waste, tall people would have ended up skinny and emaciated as they wouldn't have found enough sustenance to put muscle across their larger frames. You want your calorie requirements to be a low as possible when your food intake is going to be erratic. You just wont find enough food to fuel a big body.
  3. It really shouldn't be that difficult to see the point here even if you don't agree with it. Individuals may be exceptional, but a race of people, all of whom are exceptional, is not the human species that I am familiar with. Now I wouldn't mind this as much, if it were not for the fact that the human species as I am familiar with it does exist in the books, they're called non-Aiel. Maybe it's because of the harsh conditions that the Aiel have had to deal with over the three thousand years since the breaking. Unlike wetlanders (and us in our modern day western societies), Aiel die if they are not strong enough to cope with the Extreme conditions of the waste. While not concrete evidence, this is a pretty strong arguement as to why the Aiel are such a rugged people; because they have to be otherwise they would not have survived for as long as they have. As I said before, harsh environments do not produce physically perfect specimens. People don't grow to huge sizes where there is extremely little food or water. If anything they become more compact, hardier, and tougher, they don't turn into Greek Gods. So the evolution argument doesnt work, 3000 years of living in a wasteland doesnt produce a race of 6'6'', stacked superhumans. Populations begin to get that way when they live among plenty, when good nutrition and an adequate calorie intake are guaranteed, not something that has to be scrapped over every day. Look at us now, people are beginning to grow very tall because food is not an issue so the body can grow as much as it likes.
  4. Thats very narrow minded said. Obviously nothing written in this thread has made any impact yet on what kind of soldier the Aiel are, im so tired of this thread... Then don't answer. But since you did: Why is pointing out that the Mongols are completely different from the Aiel in the way they fight narrow minded? The Mongols had all the things I'm saying the Aiel don't have. Armour, heavy cavalry, even horse archers. There is no comparison.
  5. It really shouldn't be that difficult to see the point here even if you don't agree with it. Individuals may be exceptional, but a race of people, all of whom are exceptional, is not the human species that I am familiar with. Now I wouldn't mind this as much, if it were not for the fact that the human species as I am familiar with it does exist in the books, they're called non-Aiel.
  6. The Mongols used cavalry extensively, comparisons with them are inappropriate.
  7. Braus I agree with you that the nutritional value of many of our foods has decreased, but these aren't the foods that people serious about their fitness eat. I know something about this because I keep in very good shape myself. You always eat foods as close to their natural form as possible, stay away from all the processed crap that gets produced. So professional athletes today aren't eating the food like substances that pass for food a lot of the time these days, they're eating good food and a lot of it. As for the gai'shain, you need to remember that the gai'shain are the warriors. They've just been captured. So in order to support a population of warriors like the Aiel have, about 90% of them would have to be captured gai'shain at any one time to support the others. That means they wouldn't get in nearly as much training as everyone is assuming. Also, a lot of the gai'shain spend their time doing things other than producing. They seem to spend far too much time acting as body servants to form the economic backbone of a society and support a group of incredibly wasteful full-time warriors. Also, though the waste may be huge, there is simply no way you could gather 250,000 people together in a place where the biggest concentrations of water is a shallow pool, especially when it's so hot. Your army would dehydrate and drop to about 5-10,000 in a matter of days as all the rest died of thirst.
  8. Exactly, in order to maintain a level of fitness where you can run so far you need to do run every day. Plus they need to train at weapons and martial arts to keep up their mad ninja skills. The calorie requirments for such a lifestyle would be enormous. Royal Marines for example are fed over 4000 calories a day, and at some stages training becomes so intense that they still lose weight. Getting that much nourishment from such the Waste would be simply impossible. Your point about Gaul going for a protein shake cracked me up by the way. Thing is, if all the humans were pulling crazy stunts like the Aiel it would be easier to handle, it's just that everyone else (who cant channel) just seems like basic humans, while the Aiel are something more.
  9. If anything that would work for my case and against yours. Humans have been growing larger recently because of the superabundance of food that we now have available. We are wealthy enough that people can afford to dedicate their lives to pursuits that do not produce anything useful, such as being athletes. I haven't brought this up so far because I think it would be incredibly anal to gripe about logistics but there is absolutely no way that nomads living in a desert could afford to train and fight their whole lives, absolutely no way. The Spartans just about managed this by enslaving basically the entire population of southern Greece so that they could devote themselves to war and have the helots produce all their food. Even with this their population dwindled, and the Spartan homoioi were overwhelmingly outnumbered by their helot slaves leading to frequent rebellions. Besides which, harsh environments like the waste produce tough, hardy people. That is not the same as physically perfect specimens. Growing big and strong is not a result of hardship but of plenty. But as I aid I dont really mind any of this, I can suspend my disbelief and not get too annoyed about the logistical impossibility of a 250,000 strong army coming out of a barren wasteland. It's just every time the Aiel show up and there's a fight I'm like; ''oh god'' *roll eyes* ''here we go again, time to hear how the Aiel own all and how much better in every conceivable way they are than everyone else''
  10. They are just one type of soldier, that is a simple fact. Yes their infantry double as archers but that doesnt change the fact that they're all equipped in the same fashion. You're supposed to picture a pitched battle, you know, by far the most common kind. Where the enemy cavalry does get to charge and that's why you prepare for this eventuality by having pikemen or the like or even just using your own cavalry.
  11. Everything you say is true, however those boxers and swimmers are people who've reached the happy medium, a good all round fitness level. But they will never be as good as someone who focuses entirely on one area. So you cant reach the pinnacle of fitness of all areas. The Aiel however, are bigger, stronger, faster, tougher and have better endurance than anyone else. They're all as tall as Rand, as stacked as Perrin, can run at the level of world class athletes, and do all this on the sustenance they receive from a barren desert. And anyway, I've never said a wetlander army could move faster than an Aiel one. But once the two forces come close enough to fight the Aiel's speed will be totally outclassed by the horse's because the distances will favour the sprint of the horse over the endurance of the Aiel. So the mobility of the Aiel will not protect them from being mowed down if and when the cavalry closes. This is why i said that Aiel mobility doesnt mean shit within the context of a battle, as in once the forces have closed, the distances are too small for your endurance to matter.
  12. Erm, no they cant. Probably because skirmishing infantry don't carry pikes. Pikes being the principle ingredient in a pike square. As others have pointed out, the Aiel spears are about as long as swords, so they've forgone the advantage that true spears confer against mounted opponents. And why wouldn't they? It's not like they ever have to face cavalry in the waste. Foot equipped as the Aiel are cant stand up to horse, and never have. That is precisely why things like pikes squares were developed, to counter the enormous advantage that cavalry has against infantry who aren't equipped and formed up properly to defeat them. Basically the Aiel army consists entirely of the type of soldier that cavalry love to fight; loose order skirmishers. Because they cant escape and they cant hold their ground, it's just a breeze to ride over them.
  13. That's exactly what I'm saying, they're a race of people where the average member is exceptional in every way. Like you pointed out, if you want to be able to run ridiculous distances really fast, you have to give up in other areas. You can't carry heavy, calorie consuming muscles, that is if you're a regular human. You just don't get races of 6'6'' muscle bound Herakles' who are also world class cross country runners. You especially don't get humans growing that big in a place like the waste, where it is advantageous to be more compact so your fuel requirement is less and it's easier to survive on the little food there is.
  14. Not really, the best horses can reach 45-50 miles per hour, and it seems clear that most wetland nations know a fair bit about horse breeding so its not unreasonable to assume they'd have at least good quality horses if not superb. Also, it's not a matter of numerical advantage with the flank, it's that there just wont be that much frontage to attack, because you have to make sure you aren't in front of them and they'll be moving very fast. Sort of like when shooting at a target moving perpendicular to you. If you try to lap round the back they'll speed ahead of you and if you try to gain more frontage by attacking the front you'll have to take some of the charge. If you stop to shoot you aren't running and so the charge will crash home. And the cavalry in the middle would keep going, it would be unlikely they would even notice that their comrades on the wings were becoming bogged down until after the melee began. And the reason there are no real life examples to choose from is because we only have human beings to work with here out in the real world. We don't have demi-gods which is why nobody compares to the Aiel.
  15. Would you disagree with "Nazi culture lied to the Germans"? Yes exactly. Cultural morals put arbitrary moral judgments upon things that are non-issues. For example, one culture could say ''eating pigs is bad'' and another could say ''eating pigs is good'' and neither of these viewpoints is right or wrong because eating pigs is a moral non-issue. It isn't good or bad. If one culture says ''the slaughter of the innocent is good'' and another says ''the slaughter of the innocent is bad'' these are not morally equivalent viewpoints. Killing innocent people doesnt become good no matter how many people agree on it.
×
×
  • Create New...