101 Ways to use the One power in Battle

[Paladin]

 

I have been thinking of a few ways in which to use the One Power in a full scale battle I thought it would be an interresting topic.

 

First of Gateways,

 

open up a horizontal gateway in a safe location with the other end being above the enemy army, you look down apon the army and know exactly where and how the enemy is deployed. almost no chance of being flanked. and you know exactly how to deploy your forces.

 

Place Canon(Dragon) anywhere in the world with a large qty of ammo and open a gateway in front of it with the other end being in front of the oposing army. fire. close gateway  reload and repeat. never having to adjust your aim to account for the charging army and never having to worry about your heavy and difficult to move artillery being overrun by the advancing army.

 

A few gateways in front of a cavalry charge would be rather effective at stopping them

 

Have channelers tie weaves of air to the clothing of footsoldiers. Impenetrable lightweight armor.

 

any other Ideas?

 

 

[Bushwhacker2k]

Makes sense, but unless I'm mistaken gateways are something not every Aes Sedai can do, it would be exhausting.

 

If air weaves are tied, they become practically solid. The soldiers wouldn't be able to move.

 

Sorry to argue against~

 

Of course, there is the obvious: fireballs and lightning. But Aes Sedai have taken an oath not to kill, so it wouldn't be good against most enemies.

 

I wonder how tightly most use the oath in that way? Like would using the power to kill someone indirectly count?

 

Splitting apart the earth to swallow up enemy forces and making them unable to proceed would be pretty effective, but again that wouldn't be something easy to do.

 

You would have to have a general idea of where the enemy was already before using a gateway to spy on them, but other than that, it seems like a decent idea.

 

Most of my ideas are using the environment against them: If they are in a forest, burn it. If they are near mountains, cause an avalanch or rock slide.

 

Interesting topic :)

[Paladin]

"If air weaves are tied, they become practically solid. The soldiers wouldn't be able to move."

 

I was actually thinking along the lines of Platemail armour.

Tie smaller weaves to the fore-arm upper arm thighgs, shins etc of the soldiers Tunic & leggings and he would still be able to move but the weave would have the protection of armour without the associated weight.

 

and with regards to spying with Gateways I think it would be far more effective & quicker to weave a few small gates and see what is there than sending a scout & hoping he isnt seen and makes it back to camp before the enemy is on top of you.

 

that is How I would travel as well. weave a small gate high in the air at my destination and us what I see through it to create the second gateway in a place where the gateway wouldnt do any harm.

 

and though traveling is tiring, I think circles of Wise Ones, Kin etc who would either not be able to or have moral objections to fighting the way Asha'Man / Damane do could find plenty of ways to help using Traveling, Armour weaves etc. I also dont think that Gateways for Cannon would have to be large or kept open for a long time. just a thought.

[Kal Logan]

I read somewhere that R.J said there is a way to interfere with opening and maintaining gateways.

He compaired it to the use of Helicopters to deploy troops into battle, yes you can deploy troops through gateways but there is a limit to how many troops can be moved via gateways and also you have the problem of re-suppling those troops.

Battles in the age of legends were far more fluid than say batlles of the first World War when the battle lines were for the most part static.

 

I cant remeber where i read the piece R.J. wrote about Gatways used in war, I think it was probably "Question of the week".

 

Kal Logan.

[Perrin 187]

I read somewhere that R.J said there is a way to interfere with opening and maintaining gateways.

He compaired it to the use of Helicopters to deploy troops into battle, yes you can deploy troops through gateways but there is a limit to how many troops can be moved via gateways and also you have the problem of re-suppling those troops.

Battles in the age of legends were far more fluid than say batlles of the first World War when the battle lines were for the most part static.

 

I cant remeber where i read the piece R.J. wrote about Gatways used in war, I think it was probably "Question of the week".

 

Kal Logan.

 

He said there are weaves that can prevent the formation of Gateways in any given areas. So if you have two  armies with a few channelers the battles would be pretty static, and come down to the army and commanders since the channelers would spend most of their time fighting other channelers and forming weaves to prevent gateways and such.

[luftstark]

The main problem with channeling in an wide scale battle is...

 

If you are on an wide scale battle, you assume your enemy has channelers as well. Since both sides have channelers the main job of channelers will be to neutralize each other. The side that manages to destroy the other's channelers will have advantage. Therefore the battle will not be about fireballs or lightning, but precise striking to destroy and kill the enemy channelers.

 

In this line i could imagine channelers focusing in doing air-shields and countering weaves directed at them. striking with indirect effects to surprise the enemy and severering the enemy channelers if close enought.

 

The main troops would be most unafected untill one side manages to gain an numerical advantagem on channelers... then it would turn bloody:

 

Fire-throwing, explosing grounds, deathgates (specially against shadowspawn), air-pushes, lightning and tatical gateways (flanking and surrouding enemy forces).

 

But again.. channelers are preatty much like artiliary ... once the armys clash, it's hard to target your enemy without hit your friends to. Specially without radio coordinates (let's hope Elayne uses those "phone-ter'angreal" for something good ^^).

[Perrin 187]

The main problem with channeling in an wide scale battle is...

 

If you are on an wide scale battle, you assume your enemy has channelers as well. Since both sides have channelers the main job of channelers will be to neutralize each other. The side that manages to destroy the other's channelers will have advantage. Therefore the battle will not be about fireballs or lightning, but precise striking to destroy and kill the enemy channelers.

 

In this line i could imagine channelers focusing in doing air-shields and countering weaves directed at them. striking with indirect effects to surprise the enemy and severering the enemy channelers if close enought.

 

The main troops would be most unafected untill one side manages to gain an numerical advantagem on channelers... then it would turn bloody:

 

Fire-throwing, explosing grounds, deathgates (specially against shadowspawn), air-pushes, lightning and tatical gateways (flanking and surrouding enemy forces).

 

But again.. channelers are preatty much like artiliary ... once the armys clash, it's hard to target your enemy without hit your friends to. Specially without radio coordinates (let's hope Elayne uses those "phone-ter'angreal" for something good ^^).

Good point about the artillary comparison. Trollocs would likely develop a strategy like the Soviets against the Nazi in WW2 and just get so close to the germans they couldn't use their superior artillary or air power without the risk of killing their own men. North Vietnam and the Vietcong used a similiar tactic in The Vietnam War. A war Robert Jordan fought in, so I could see that as a direct influence to future Shadowspawn tactics.

 

I don't think those phone ter-angreals will be used to for that though, coordinates and Longitude and Latitudes and such don't exisit in Randland. They could be used to cooridnate major attacks over long stretches of space.

[Kaznen]

AS are prevented from indirect killing.  They can't use the OP to set fire to a house if there are people inside, Egwene thought about setting a ship running to TV on fire but she didn't because people would have died, and that violated AS oath #3.

[Perrin 187]

AS are prevented from indirect killing.  They can't use the OP to set fire to a house if there are people inside, Egwene thought about setting a ship running to TV on fire but she didn't because people would have died, and that violated AS oath #3.

Good point but, the men can.

[Dunedain Fal]

AS are prevented from indirect killing.  They can't use the OP to set fire to a house if there are people inside, Egwene thought about setting a ship running to TV on fire but she didn't because people would have died, and that violated AS oath #3.

 

But they can create obstacles that would be very hard for the enemy to overcome.  Such as a burning wall of fire that would force the enemy to move around and into a killing field made by men, not OP.

 

Or even create shields against incoming arrows and balls of fire or rocks.

[Matcauthon999]

In TG does no one else think  that the light should just weave one MASSIVE gateway with all of them linked then the trollocs go through and they die. I reckon thats how the gholam dies myself

[icspots]

Some good examples.  I definitely think there are a lot of ways to use the OP with more..... finesse than the characters we see.  Such as the edge-on invisible ribbons Asmo used in Rhuidean..... subtle yet very effective.  If a channeler put a bunch of those razor-ribbons across a battlefield and then inverted the weaves it would horribly screw over anyone who tried to go through them.  Sure a channeler might eventually figure out what's going on and cut the weaves, but as a stopgap measure it would be very effective.

[Majsju]

AS are prevented from indirect killing.  They can't use the OP to set fire to a house if there are people inside, Egwene thought about setting a ship running to TV on fire but she didn't because people would have died, and that violated AS oath #3.

 

I do not think that Oath will be much of a problem during TG. Once the Seanchan situation have been solved, what are the odds that Aes Sedai would face an enemy that is not on Team dark?

[Epic]

I thought it'd be good if you have a whole bunch of channelers link and make a gateway an inch tall, but the length of the opposing army and then have them send it at the opposing army at roughly knee high.

Or use a gateway to drop a mountain onto a city --> "Hey, I thought that the river Erinin flowed around Tar Valon, not Dragonmount.  People say that the White Tower is so big you can see it from miles away, all I see is the mountain."

[luftstark]

AS are prevented from indirect killing.  They can't use the OP to set fire to a house if there are people inside, Egwene thought about setting a ship running to TV on fire but she didn't because people would have died, and that violated AS oath #3.

 

Actually, Kaznen, the Second Oath (IIRC) stops an AS from usin' the power to kill unless her life is at stake. Once in a battle, your life is at stake (see Dumai Well's), therefore AS can use the power to Kill. The Oath does not imply to use the power directly or indirecly (such as lightning bolts, a weave we see AS usin' a lot). Therefore once the battle starts, the second Oath is nulified.

 

Also, if the enemy is Shadowspanw, then forget it, the AS can use whathever she wants!!!

[Kaznen]

AS are prevented from indirect killing.  They can't use the OP to set fire to a house if there are people inside, Egwene thought about setting a ship running to TV on fire but she didn't because people would have died, and that violated AS oath #3.

 

Actually, Kaznen, the Second Oath (IIRC) stops an AS from usin' the power to kill unless her life is at stake. Once in a battle, your life is at stake (see Dumai Well's), therefore AS can use the power to Kill. The Oath does not imply to use the power directly or indirecly (such as lightning bolts, a weave we see AS usin' a lot). Therefore once the battle starts, the second Oath is nulified.

 

Also, if the enemy is Shadowspanw, then forget it, the AS can use whathever she wants!!!

The second oath is "not make something for one man to kill another"

 

And because an AS is in battle doesn't mean their lives are threatened.  Look at Perrin's Battle of Malda and Mat's battle at the end on KoD.  The AS had to hold back until they felt threatened.

 

And this thread was started as OP in any battle as a way to get around the third oath, then their was talk about directing enemy fire back at them and indirect killing.  Which violates oath #3 if used against human non-darkfriends.

[naxxan]

The third oath does allow for an Aes Sedai to use the OP to protect her warder though.  So under proper circumstances, an AS could use the OP offensively in battle without having to be in direct harms way.  Of course you would have to find something that could endanger the life of a warder that isn't waves and waves of shadowspawn.

[luftstark]

The second oath is "not make something for one man to kill another"

 

Yeah.. sorry about that.. i wasn't sure about the order of the oaths...

 

And because an AS is in battle doesn't mean their lives are threatened.  Look at Perrin's Battle of Malda and Mat's battle at the end on KoD.  The AS had to hold back until they felt threatened.

 

I know... but there is another point: If there are channelers on the other side, and those are not bound by the 3º oath, then they will be able to channel at the AS. Then they are threatened and all goes to hell =D

 

Also, as we see in Dumai Well's, the AS can throw themselfs in the heat of the battle to feel threatned!!!

 

And this thread was started as OP in any battle as a way to get around the third oath, then their was talk about directing enemy fire back at them and indirect killing.  Which violates oath #3 if used against human non-darkfriends.

 

Actually this thread was not about the 3º Oath at all. It was about OP in battle, by any channelers (AS, AM, WO, WF, FS, Kin, Damane, DL ... etc). I agree that some tatics may be harder to acomplish by AS 'cause of the 3º oath: AS can't slaugther ppl in battle like AM, but they can't defend themselfs of other channelers and stop their army of being slaughtered by attacking the enemy channelers, specially if their warders are in the army ^^

 

---

 

As a side note, as it ever clear if Dark Friends are considered shadowspawn, or are similar to it enought that AS can kill them with the OP???

[Theleos]

One idea i always thought would be interesting is:

    If your enemy is in a valley or "bowl" type of terrain, then open a gateway above them with the other end underwater in the Ocean. You pour massive amounts of water on them and effectively create a lake around them. This would work really well against trollocs because they hate water.

    I initially thought of this before they used to bowl of winds to bring water to places in drought (it would have to be fresh water then) or for bringing water to the waste.

 

other than that I think Rand really used the power effectively with the blossoms of fire and deathgates also those red arrow things (that come out of his fingers. Those would be best for direct killing power.

 

Also it would be cool to create "mines" with the OP. You could have ter'angreal that activate with either movement or close proximity of shadowspawn. They could either have a massive explosion or something more radial, with the damage spread horizontally for more widespread death.

 

 

 

[luftstark]

I don't think that gateway will be used in the last battle as most ppl imagine. Yeah, gateway cannon is awsome, but i don't think the characters will do it.

 

Gateway may be used to tatical assaults, as Rand did with the seanchan, or to flank the enemy, but not as a direct weapon (unless we are talking about deathgates... =D).

 

Also it would be cool to create "mines" with the OP. You could have ter'angreal that activate with either movement or close proximity of shadowspawn. They could either have a massive explosion or something more radial, with the damage spread horizontally for more widespread death.

 

I think that a mine field could be easily created with the inverted weaves traps that rand placed on Callandor and at Shadar Logoth. No need for ter'angreal, since those are hard to make. Just place inverted weaves all over a field and watch the show!!!

[Kaznen]

Also it would be cool to create "mines" with the OP. You could have ter'angreal that activate with either movement or close proximity of shadowspawn. They could either have a massive explosion or something more radial, with the damage spread horizontally for more widespread death.

 

I think that a mine field could be easily created with the inverted weaves traps that rand placed on Callandor and at Shadar Logoth. No need for ter'angreal, since those are hard to make. Just place inverted weaves all over a field and watch the show!!!

They can already make OP land mines.  Moriane implied she could several times.  But if she did it would be like lighting a signal fire for any shadowspawn (I think they can still sense inverted weaves).  And in the end they would be trapped in their encampment because trollocs would surround them.

 

There is also the problem that you can't put wards on top of wards, and in most cases all the things wards can be used for Shadowspawn landmines are among the least useful.

 

But bangy wards do exist.  Suine used it on her memo box in her study.

[luftstark]

Well... Moiraine said that wards in Shadar Logoth would mark them to Mashadar ... she never said that shadowspawn, as a whole, could sense the OP. IIRC, except the gholam, they can't. (or rand trap in shadar logoth would be useless). So it would be nice to make a mine field.. trollocs would die easily. And inverted weaves makes it rather hard to be detected by enemy channelers!!!

[Kaznen]

Well... Moiraine said that wards in Shadar Logoth would mark them to Mashadar ... she never said that shadowspawn, as a whole, could sense the OP. IIRC, except the gholam, they can't. (or rand trap in shadar logoth would be useless). So it would be nice to make a mine field.. trollocs would die easily. And inverted weaves makes it rather hard to be detected by enemy channelers!!!

Wards against shadowspawn would mark them out for Mashadar and wards for Mashadar would be sensed by Fades.  Since she wasn't expecting the shadowspawn to follow them she used the anti-mashadar wards, then the Fades came and they had to leave.

 

A Fade can sense channeling.  They can see the weaves but they know the OP is being used.

 

And laying down OP landmines would take a lot of juice and be a beacon to fades how would surround the place trapping the people in.

[luftstark]

Well... that may be.. but imagine Tarwin's Gap. Imagine that with a mine field. There is only one way... so there is little Fades can do ... they would prob send a few Trollocs to blow themselfs in the mines ... so it would, at least, buy time!!!

[dubz]

I would lift up millions of small rocks or pebbles with air and then send them incredibly fast back and forth through the enemy lines thus popping small holes through everyone or take that cuendillar chain from Tar Valon and run in lengthwise across the battlefield and then use air to drive it through the battle lines cutting everyone in half or make a cuendillar string to do the same thing.