I dont like Matrim Cauthon

[a_lily_in_winter]

10.  Too many people like him too much.  You can't voice a reasonable objection to any thing Mat without people making up millions of lame excuses for bad behavior and getting on your case.

 

9. He is a constant whiner.  His PoV is always boo, hoo me I can't get away from this mad chaneller or boo, hoo me this woman is picking on me or boo hoo me being ta'veren is awful. 

 

8.  He is a male Nynaeve.  (This may also be a reason to like both Nynaeve and Mat, of course.  I just can't understand why some people can like one but not the other.  Both are always running away; both are constant whiners that can't admit openly when they make a mistake, both are constantly complaining about the other sex, both are the reluctant hero's with the heart of gold, etc..)

 

7.  He is the most boring cut-out character in the lot.  Every movie and every book has a Mat in it.  *Yawn*, yet ANOTHER, reluctant hero with a heart of gold who is always trying to run away from responsibility but can't because he cares too much.  BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. ;)

 

6.  He does not like books and tries to avoid studying.  Maybe you have to be a teacher to fully understand this.  But Mat is the type of person who refuses to study and just hopes that some random being from another plane randomly stuffs all the information you need into his head.  I have a lot more respect for the person who works hard for half of the results of the one who coasts by because of luck or the efforts of someone else.

 

5. He is a constant whiner...

 

4. He has not done a single thing for himself because of his own initiative.  He is basically a bit player helping others with a lot more guts then he has accomplish their tasks.  Everything that Mat has accomplished was only accomplished either because he was running away from something or because someone else was daring enough to try something risky that needed to be done.  Mat had to bail out Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve, because they were the ones doing something.  They are the ones who take chances that need to be taken because no one else will; they are the ones who pay the price; without their attempt even when they failed without Mat's help the world would have suffered. 

 

3. He cannot admit to himself or others when he has made even the smallest of mistakes.  In small doses this can be humorous, but...

 

2.  He just isn't that cool.  In real life he would be lucky to have a job in Walmart.  It is only in the world of Hollywood, that people like Mat go anywhere and accomplish anything; unless she is an heiress to a hotel chain, of course.

 

and the number one reason to dislike Mat is...

 

1. I didn't mention that he is a whiner did I?

 

Finally after all that I want to present the top 3 reasons to like Mat:

 

3. He can be funny at times.

 

2. He is a male Nynaeve

 

1. He is human.  Sure, he does irritating things at times like all the characters do.  Sure, he has major flaws.  But in the end he does have a number of strengths such as having a good heart that make up for that. 

 

Too many people hate this or that character for one or two things they did in this or that book, while ignoring all the other positive things and characteristics of that character.  It is pitiable that people would do that for a fictional character.

 

It is of course far worse when people do that in real life.  There are way too many people who hate someone else because of trivial things.  The whole world suffers because of it.

 

Mat will never be my favorite character nor even in my top ten.  (Oddly enough I don't even know if there is a male character in my top ten.)  Mat is still well worth reading, though.

[Silmarien]

OMG how much hatred for Mat!!!!!

 

I think u were a bit exaggerated, u describe Mat as the most horrible guy on earth!!Maybe u see him as the usual as***** guy of our time that kidding the women, and don't wanna have responsibilities but i think there's a difference between Mat and this kind of guys:

Mat is a good guy inside, he can jokes, say silly things etc but at last he does what is necessary to do.

I mean, just because a man wanna have fun, or jokes everytime he can, this doesn't mean he can't be serious. Everyone express his feelings in different ways, people that jokes are more sad than others sometimes, it's a way to defend themselves and i think Mat was a very insecure boy that had found a way to face the world. But inside he's a good guy, that knows when he has to stop to joke and do what's right.

In real life i prefer more someone as Perrin, so thoughtful and calm, but he has a big lack: he's not able to face problems with a smile on his face as Mat does!

And then i don't even like the Casanova type, but i see Mat differently from this kind. I see more inside himself than what's in the surface. That's a mistake that everyone in the book does. They don't take him seriously because they give for granted he's idiot  >:(

He's a whiner as all the others, but this doesn't change the fact he DOES what he has to do.

He's scared (as all the others) but he has his way to express it!

And i don't think he's like Nyn, OMG she's so secure of herself and thinks to be Wonder Woman!!!! I like the character of Nynaeve but i don't like her as a person, on the contrary i like Mat as character and as person because for methere's more in him than u can think, he can seems a stupid as***** guy but he's not.

It's true he wanna just have fun and be away from danger and all that mess around him and in the real life he reminds me some men that wanna flee from responsibility LOL but i think it's a choice of life. He's not married with anyone, he's young and even if i'm not agree with his behave i understand him 'cos everyone has his needs and his way to live.

And i would accept this behave even if he was real because i know that INSIDE he's not really as*****, because i know that he's a good guy.

It's important understand the difference between how a person really is and how a person seems to be, don't stop to the surface but see more inside!

 

That's my opinion  ;)

I love Mat anyway  :D

 

[Mr Ares]

I think u were a bit exaggerated, u describe Mat as the most horrible guy on earth!!

Actually, I think you exaggerated.

 

And i don't think he's like Nyn, OMG she's so secure of herself

She's not, she's really not.

and thinks to be Wonder Woman!!!!

Absolutely not.

He's not married with anyone

He is now.

It's important understand the difference between how a person really is and how a person seems to be, don't stop to the surface but see more inside!

Try it with Nynaeve.

[Silmarien]

I was joking saying the person has exaggerated, why u think i did? :'(

 

I know now he's married but i was talking about his general behave during the course of the story!

 

And i like Nynaeve, i think she's great, i just say for me she's not like Mat and i explained why.

And always talk about what i know of her considering what i have read.

I spoiled everything about Mat 'cos i'm idiot bud i don't know much about Nyn or the others, so for now i just talked about my feelings now about her!!!

 

Oh God your short answers are scary, what have i done?  :-[

I'm sorry if my answers seemed rude but i didn't want to be rude with anyone, just express my opinion!

It's just a discussion about a book and characters that don't exist,it seems you're angry with me :-[

Your last phrase is not true and it offends me, i watch inside people, it's just i don't the character as i know Mat's one, i didn't tell anything bad, just use funny words for describe a person!But for joke!

Sorry if it was misunderstood but your words have really "shocked" me  :-[

I mean, surprised...don't know another word to explain sorry

 

[arkinia]

Your english makes me giggle.  :D

[Kivam]

In Mat's current characteristics, his gambling would be the only thing to dislike him over.

In the beginning of the series, his doing pranks would be another thing to dislike him over.

 

Other than those, Mat seems a nice guy.

 

 

Yes - obviously, the only reason to dislike him is he does things that are fun  ::)

[a_lily_in_winter]

Silmarien, thank you for proving my number 10 reason to dislike Mat ;).  Too many people like Mat too much. 

 

It amuses me the way that some people will jump on any one who slights Mat even in the slightest manner and even when they are correct.  It would amuse me more if people doing that in real life with real people did not cause so much unnecessary hatred over silly things. 

 

The truth is, I like Mat and tried to keep my list relatively balanced with justification.  But just because I like someone does not mean I have to dislike everyone who dislikes that person.  Further, liking someone should not make you blind to their flaws. 

 

In any case I stand by my assertion that Mat is a male Nynaeve.  The resemblance between the two is so uncanny, that I almost think RJ planned it that way.  They both continually run away from their problems.  Both are reluctant heroes.  Both want to be free of AS, but can't.  Both love complaining about the opposite sex.  Both have a tendency to get physical with people like kicking or spanking.  Both are nymphomaniacs.  Both are quite capable of extreme bravery when defending someone they care about.  Neither one of them can admit out loud or in their thoughts that they have made a mistake; yet both are humble in their own way.  They both even have ter'angreal that can disrupt the one power.  Neither one of them is particularly studious.  They will do what is necessary to complete their goals but nothing else.  Their are differences to be certain, but not enough to feed a mouse.   

[Silmarien]

Your english makes me giggle.  :D

 

:D  :D  :D

 

 

Lily, i don't know why you don't like someone is so loved but it's an opinion  ;)

 

I think i understood most of all u said and i respect your opinion even if i don't think the same for most of the things  ;)

Anyway, as we say in Italy "the world is beautiful 'cos is various"  :D

[Lord Nik]

Silmarien, thank you for proving my number 10 reason to dislike Mat ;).  Too many people like Mat too much. 

 

It amuses me the way that some people will jump on any one who slights Mat even in the slightest manner and even when they are correct.   It would amuse me more if people doing that in real life with real people did not cause so much unnecessary hatred over silly things. 

 

The truth is, I like Mat and tried to keep my list relatively balanced with justification.  But just because I like someone does not mean I have to dislike everyone who dislikes that person.  Further, liking someone should not make you blind to their flaws. 

 

In any case I stand by my assertion that Mat is a male Nynaeve.  The resemblance between the two is so uncanny, that I almost think RJ planned it that way.  They both continually run away from their problems.  Both are reluctant heroes.  Both want to be free of AS, but can't.  Both love complaining about the opposite sex.  Both have a tendency to get physical with people like kicking or spanking.  Both are nymphomaniacs.  Both are quite capable of extreme bravery when defending someone they care about.  Neither one of them can admit out loud or in their thoughts that they have made a mistake; yet both are humble in their own way.  They both even have ter'angreal that can disrupt the one power.  Neither one of them is particularly studious.  They will do what is necessary to complete their goals but nothing else.  Their are differences to be certain, but not enough to feed a mouse.     

 

Are you really serious?

 

sigh*

 

And you think "Mats* personality wouldnt do to well in RL (your walmart reference)

 

Lets go over that. One reason you dont like Mat is because to many people like him. So you dont like him because he is popular. And since lots of people DO like him he is therefore unsuccessful in life?

 

flawed reasoning is great  ::)

[Warpath]

First of all, Mat is my favorite character and I enjoyed reading this thread about him.  Mat is probably the most complex character I've read about.  Any guy that can be a goofball, prankster, gambler, Unofficial Lord, juggler, skilled fighter, General, Gentleman, and a ladies man, has to be interesting to read about.  Yes, he is irresponsible and that hasn't really changed much and probably won't change until Tuon teaches him otherwise.  I found Mat annoying too until he accepted his fate of being Ta'veren and started the Band.  Bottomline, I enjoy his adventures because they contain a good balance of suspense, mystery, action, and best of all - humor.

[Silmarien]

 

 

Are you really serious?

 

sigh*

 

And you think "Mats* personality wouldnt do to well in RL (your walmart reference)

 

Lets go over that. One reason you dont like Mat is because to many people like him. So you dont like him because he is popular. And since lots of people DO like him he is therefore unsuccessful in life?

 

flawed reasoning is great  ::)

 

Ditto! U said better than me LOL ;)

 

First of all, Mat is my favorite character and I enjoyed reading this thread about him.  Mat is probably the most complex character I've read about.  Any guy that can be a goofball, prankster, gambler, Unofficial Lord, juggler, skilled fighter, General, Gentleman, and a ladies man, has to be interesting to read about.  Yes, he is irresponsible and that hasn't really changed much and probably won't change until Tuon teaches him otherwise.  I found Mat annoying too until he accepted his fate of being Ta'veren and started the Band.  Bottomline, I enjoy his adventures because they contain a good balance of suspense, mystery, action, and best of all - humor.

 

Ditto again LOL

[Mr Ares]

And always talk about what i know of her considering what i have read.

I don't know what you've read, but I always operate under the assumption people have read the books. As it is, it should be clear from early on that she is not the most secure person in the series.

 

Oh God your short answers are scary, what have i done?  :-[

Nothing. I'm just a scary person.

It's just a discussion about a book and characters that don't exist,it seems you're angry with me :-[

Not in the slightest.

Your last phrase is not true and it offends me, i watch inside people, it's just i don't the character as i know Mat's one, i didn't tell anything bad, just use funny words for describe a person!But for joke!

Take a closer look at Nynaeve.

[a_lily_in_winter]

In response to Lord Nik who responded to me with

 

Are you really serious?

 

sigh*

 

And you think "Mats* personality wouldnt do to well in RL (your walmart reference)

 

Lets go over that. One reason you dont like Mat is because to many people like him. So you dont like him because he is popular. And since lots of people DO like him he is therefore unsuccessful in life?

 

flawed reasoning is great

 

 

My responce:

 

It is hard to know where to begin with this one.  I guess I will start with answering the question about whether or not I am serious.  The answer is partly yes and partly no.  As I stated in both posts quite clearly I like Mat; he is just not my favorite character.  I am serious that Mat has some flaws that make him less then perfect but my dislike of Mat is not that serious.  I am quite serious about my irritation with rabid Mat fans, though and I don't mind tweaking their noses.  (To be fair any rabid fan irritates me, it is just that typically rabid Mat fans are a more verbose and more immature.)

 

About the popularity thing.  There is no flawed reasoning here, at least on my part.  The first thing to note is that even in my first post, I explicitly said that they were reasons to dislike Mat.  I did not say they are reasons that I hate Mat.  Nor did I ever say that I dislike Mat.  In fact I said quite the opposite and gave reasons.  Second, popularity of characters has nothing to do with popularity in real life.  They are two separate issues. 

 

Third, my reasons for thinking that Mat would not be successful in real life have nothing to do with popularity.  I state them explicitly in the post.  Mat won't be successful for the simple reason that he has no drive to do anything but drink and gamble.  He waits for life to come to him.  Don't get me wrong, that does not make Mat evil or a bad character;  it just makes him ordinary.  Popularity, even if he would be popular in real life, cannot make up for a complete and utter lack of ambition and drive. 

 

[hurryupnwait]

I was just casually reading this thread not really intending to post on it when I came across Lily's 10 reason to not like Mat post.  I cannot be silent on the Mat is a male Nyneave point.  She is the embodiment of all that I hate in the gender stereotypes and that is on either side of the gender line. 

 

Overbearing, bossy, self righteous, judgmental,etc.  That list could go on and on. 

 

There are many reasons to like Mat, and in my opinion few not to.  There has been much said of his trying to run from his responsibility.  I started reading this series 8 years ago when I was 19 and roughly the same age as Rand, Perrin and Mat.  I cannot imagine being thrust into the nightmare that they were literally overnight.  I can tell you this I would like to believe that I would be brave and willing to step up to the plate.

 

However when you consider it is an Aes Sedai telling him this as he is fleeing from the only home he has ever known, look at it from his then point of view.  He has been told all his life that Aes Sedai broke the world and are not to be trusted.  Yes it can be argued that only male Aes Sedai did this, however if you go back and read the people of the two Rivers do not at this time know enough to make a distinction.  All they and by association Mat know is the world was once a much better place and thanks to Aes Sedai it is not.  Can you really fault him for not immediately embracing what he is being told by this Aes Sedai stanger?

 

Also while it is true that all 3 boy were given special gifts to help them in their saving of the world: Rand with Saidin, Perrin the wolfdreams/talking to wolves/sharper senses, and Mat with his memories of battle and his trinket which gives him some protect against the one power.  It can be argued that mat came by his gifts last.  I can be argued this is a contributing factor to his embracing of his role in the fight against the shadow. 

 

[Mr Ares]

I cannot be silent on the Mat is a male Nyneave point. She is the embodiment of all that I hate in the gender stereotypes and that is on either side of the gender line. 

 

Overbearing, bossy, self righteous, judgmental,etc. That list could go on and on.

Indeed, so many qualities left off. Brave, selfless, etc. Anyway, some further reasons why Mat and Nynaeve are similar, from Tor's reread.

I’ve mentioned it before, but it’s worth reiterating the number of similarities she shares with Mat, specifically in the way they both make their obstinate refusal to examine their own psyches bizarrely charming. I had to chuckle at her thought halfway through, wondering why everyone kept telling her to be careful, because the way she views herself is so unlike the way everyone around her does, both in her negative traits and her positive ones. I don’t know why I find it so, well, adorable that neither she nor Mat seem to have any conception of how brave they really are. Of course, neither of them seems to get how obnoxious they can be, either, but at least that’s consistent.

[Cillian]

Nothing. I'm just a scary person.

 

I bet you just want a hug.

[Perrin 187]

I can see Lily's point. People obsession with Mat is pretty annoying especially since he wins almost every character poll, and also because he is very generic, Han Solo and Captian Kirk like. Since I think character's like Moraine and Thom are more unique and orignal and should win those polls. Thom is very unique and rarely ever is like the boring generic old man that his appearnce gives the impression of. And Moraine at first appear's to be a dissapointing RJ female Gandalf but is much more cold and I would say Dr. House like. I actual like her better cold hearted then more emotional like she is in NS and FOH.

 

As you may be able to tell by my name one, of my favorites is Perrin but I can see why many people could have a problem with him. I just like him more than Mat because he is much more self reliant and not dependent on being a wolfbrother to solve all of his problems, like mat is with his luck and memories. And its pretty admirable to stay loyal to his wife, instead of going for the much more beautiful berelain since many men wouldn't be able to help themselves, in both are world and in the WOT,(not that i'm suggesting mat would cheat on tuon or anything,I'm just pointing out a reason I like Perrin).

[vainebekonnes]

I don't like Mat because scarves are a fashion accessory no-no.

[Mr Ares]

Nothing. I'm just a scary person.

I bet you just want a hug.

I'm not convinced, but if any pretty young ladies would like to volunteer, I'm willing to test the theory.

[Elgee]

*Hugs Mr Ares*

 

OK, so I'm not young, nor pretty, nor a lady, but I am female (and a Red) and I simply couldn't pass up the opportunity  ;D

 

As for Mat: I agree that he is the male counterpart to Nynaeve. Both have fixed ideas of the opposite sex that they cling to, despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. Both seriously suffer from foot in mouth disease. Both balked at their destiny (Mat = Hero, Nyna = Aes Sedai). Both have taken a while to grow up (slightly). Both have settled down to the job somewhat now that they're partnered up. One could go on.

[Mr Ares]

*Hugs Mr Ares*

No significant deterioration in my scariness. Perhaps we need someone younger and prettier?

 

OK, so I'm not young, nor pretty, nor a lady, but I am female (and a Red) and I simply couldn't pass up the opportunity  ;D

You've got me worried now...What are you?

[Elgee]

*Just smiles ... toothily*

[arkinia]

I'm scared.

[Silmarien]

 

My responce:

 

...it is just that typically rabid Mat fans are a more verbose and more immature.

 

 

I hope i understood bad what u said, because if u mean people are immature just because they like a character like Mat you're completely wrong, i'm sorry.

U can't judge people because they like or dislike a character.

It's like say just because a person likes Ishamael means this person is a bad person!!!!!We talk about characters remember!!

And then, just to be pedantic, i said why i like Mat and all the things about prejudices etc etc but maybe u don't wanna see nothing else. Anyway, i don't care that's your opinion and i'm sorry for you if you consider people based of what characters of books they like! 

[Mr Ares]

*Just smiles ... toothily*

Why grandma, what big teeth you have.

 

My responce:

...it is just that typically rabid Mat fans are a more verbose and more immature.

I hope i understood bad what u said, because if u mean people are immature just because they like a character like Mat you're completely wrong, i'm sorry.

No. Less mature people are more likely to like Mat was what a_lily_in_winter was getting at. He attracts immature fans.