Tor's decision to split AMoL

[Ludmian]

As Elgee has suggested elsewhere, I'm starting a poll. If you are perfectly OK with Tor's decision, then vote "Yes". If you think that Tor should have given more consideration to RJ's dying wish and handled this situation differently (publish a one-volume AMoL, publish all the volumes at the same time under the title RJ had in mind for his last book and sell them together or whatever) then vote "No". If you don't really care what Tor decides to do with AMoL, then, naturally, you can vote "I don't care". Thanks for participating.

[Bela]

I think it is almost disrespectful to call it RJ's dying wish. I don't have the interview in front of me but I recall RJ saying that he would leave many loose ends in the books. He planned to write two more prequels we knew of, and maybe more, which would probably tie up those loose ends. Now BS has to sift through all this stuff and decide what to put in, is there notations saying that this certain piece of information would be used in AMOL? Probably not. BS is faced with following a legend, he wants to do only what is best for the story, and he doesn't know who should make the cut, who RJ wanted to make the cut. Giving us all the information he can instead seems like a pretty good deal to me. I do not like the prospect of waiting until 2011 to read of TG, but it is reasonable. No one knows what was in RJ's mind but RJ himself. I vote yes.

[Shard]

There were actual notes that said "not to be used" or "keep unresolved" as Brandon did mention this in his blog somewhere. However I do agree that he has a monumental task and even putting the whole money argument aside I still understand and am ok with the decision.

[Bela]

There were actual notes that said "not to be used" or "keep unresolved" as Brandon did mention this in his blog somewhere. However I do agree that he has a monumental task and even putting the whole money argument aside I still understand and am ok with the decision.

 

Yes, but not everything. Even RJ isn't that organized. Plus for all we know he could have completely changed his mind and been unable to change the notes due to his sickness.

[Roxinos]

What about those of us who don't really care? You should've added an "I don't care" option.

[Shard]

lol good idea Roxinos.

 

Yes Bela not everything but some were labeld as such so I'm sure that helped a little.

[Nightstrike]

I'm agreeing with the decision. We have no information on RJ's "dying wish", but Harriet most certainly does. His wish to live and complete AMoL himself was a different thing altogether.

 

We will see the end of the series written, even after RJ's death. I'm very thankful for that.

 

All three books (and the encyclopaedia) will be great reads. That's all I can wish for.

 

[Ludmian]

What about those of us who don't really care? You should've added an "I don't care" option.

 

Good idea. I edited the poll.

 

I think it is almost disrespectful to call it RJ's dying wish. I don't have the interview in front of me but I recall RJ saying that he would leave many loose ends in the books. He planned to write two more prequels we knew of, and maybe more, which would probably tie up those loose ends. Now BS has to sift through all this stuff and decide what to put in, is there notations saying that this certain piece of information would be used in AMOL? Probably not. BS is faced with following a legend, he wants to do only what is best for the story, and he doesn't know who should make the cut, who RJ wanted to make the cut. Giving us all the information he can instead seems like a pretty good deal to me. I do not like the prospect of waiting until 2011 to read of TG, but it is reasonable. No one knows what was in RJ's mind but RJ himself. I vote yes.

 

I don't know why it would be disrespectful. RJ prepared detailed notes on AMoL in case the worst happens and someone else has to finish it. He also wrote the final chapter of the book, as well as the prologue and some chapters in between. So we can be sure Brandon knows what RJ wanted to happen in AMoL. RJ's decision to leave a few loose ends has nothing to do with the sequels, the outrigger novels or whatever. He made that decision long ago to make the world of WoT more alive (he said that he disliked when by the end of the book all the problems were solved and the world and characters can be conveniently put aside and forgotten.)

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

I don't really care how they split it up unless it affects the content itself.

 

I mean, we still get the book, right?

[Raistlin]

I thought I read some where that RJ had a contract to do 3 more books with TOR. The split may cover all of those books. Leaving a situation where Harriet does not have to find a way to honor that contract.  If splitting the books will help to take care of Harriet now that he is gone do you believe he would not want that for her.

[Jethro]

I voted that I agree because in the long run I think the story itself is what matters, and at the end of the day Brandon is using his writer instincts to do the best that he can. The book was originally meant to be one, yes. But Brandon himself said on his blog that he thought one book would be insufficient for the remaining story, and deep down I feel that I and many people here knew one book wouldnt be enough anyway. He felt that he would have to cut out many of the minor characters and even some of the major character input, and that would cripple the whole thing. The ending of this series has had too big a buildup to not have the ending it deserves, and in my opinion asking Brandon to do other than what he thought best-to make it as big as we all know it should be-is basically asking him to not do his best. As he said, we should still treat it as one major book-A Memory of Light-being divided into three sections. People should accept it, since for one thing we cant change it, for another we have Brandon doing this who seems to be taking the project very seriously, and for a third we get some new Wheel of Time to read this year as we were promised. As fans we should be supporting the decisions they make because they are the experts; all theyre trying to do is make the story as best as they can and ensure we get it as soon as possible. I think we should take into consideration just how big a project it is-Brandon has been putting 14 hour days in, six days a week. Give the man a break.

 

I think people should check out his blog. He put on a post explaining how the decision to split came about; he says splitting it is the only way to keep the promise of fans getting something this year. We have just over six months to wait.

[Jonn]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call his wanting to finish this last book his "dying wish".  When I think of a dying wish, I think of the famous scene in Citizen Cane and "Rosebud".

We needn't be so dramatic.

All that's being put out here is that RJ wanted this book to be the last book, and that never changed so far as I know, even in his final days.

 

And why people keep rewriting the scenario with him making this decision based on his imminent passing, I have NO IDEA.

Ludmian was kind enough to put up a reference from a signing tour appearance where RJ explained why he wanted this to be the last book. He was still relatively healthy and competent at the time and was deep into his plotting of A Memory of Light. Otherwise, I doubt he would be out touring and doing signings in support of Knife of Dreams.

 

If Ludmian doesn't repost it, I'll go ahead and do it. But still, I remember this tour and the things he was saying in that period. He had every intention of doing this in one book, and he wasn't planning on dying either. What a ludicrous idea.

 

so no, I wouldn't call this a "dying wish". We should shut that down right now.

 

What it was, and is, is RJ's original vision of how he would end the series.

 

To get more on topic:

 

I think it is unfair how Tor has handled this with the fans and Brandon Sanderson.

 

They've put TONS more pressure on the man with this time issue, and it's really their fault for not understanding the depth of the material RJ left behind, and what needed to be covered. It's also been unfair to fans who are starving for something more, and so are easy to exploit in order to put SOMETHING out for sale.

 

Trust me, I do want something, and I'll be glad to have it, but it really should be left up to Sanderson to dictate what he's willing to do in the writing of this work with regards to time. I think it was a mistake for Tor to put out the release date prior to completion of the first drafts of even the first half of the final product.

 

WHAT A BLUNDER.

 

Now they are left scrambling, and Sanderson has to come to the rescue to not only write the thing, but he also has to do the PR and damage control.

 

I don't know, maybe it will be better this way, but...somehow I can't see it turning out to be the case. It looks and smells like a business compromise for the sake of business, and that's when things can get really dicey.

 

I guess I'll just have to trust in RJ's notes along with Harriet's guidance, and Sanderson's ability.

 

I have lost a great deal of confidence in Tor and their handling of the project. Hope they can prove me wrong, but somehow I doubt it. They set up their own no win situation. If it goes well, I'm more likely to credit Sanderson for his ability to pull it off than to chalk it up to Tor's foresight.

 

This is me though: If you are in a position of authority and you play me like you can hold back important information and then send someone under your authority to explain FOR you...I don't like that.

 

You make a boss decision, then be a leader and fess up.

[RobertAlexWillis]

What it was, and is, is RJ's original vision of how he would end the series.

 

No, his original vision was that it would be three books.  Then six ... then 8-10, then 12.  You're acting like he had never changed his mind on this exact issue before. 

 

He always put the integrity and completeness of the story before any artificial number of books, which is why his estimate continually went up.

 

Which is why what you are doing is taking one idea, and artificially making it more important than any and every other consideration.  Tor, Harriet, and Brandon didn't do that, and I thank them for it.  Getting the whole story is far more important than "NO, JUST ONE MORE BOOK!"

 

At least to me.  And, judging by what he actually published, to Robert Jordan too.

 

 

 

[mb]

Voted that I didn't care.  Splitting generally should be decided between the person that holds the copyrights and the publisher; not by the readers.

 

[Roxinos]

At least to me.  And, judging by what he actually published, to Robert Jordan too.

 

I agree with the sentiment, RAW, but I think you're fighting kind of a straw man.

 

The length of the "final book" is going to, conceivably, remain the same between one volume or three volumes. The decision to split it hasn't effected how long the final volume will be.

 

However, it will, conceivably, effect the way the story is going to be written. That's the issue at hand. If Brandon is to write each volume as a work that is satisfying in its own respect, then he'll have to work around a few of the details. Will it change the story and the outcome? No. The presentation, however, will be changed.

 

The complaints about Tor's splitting the "final book" seem to be more dedicated towards that aspect. The book will be different in presentation, and for purists, that's a problem.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I agree with the sentiment, RAW, but I think you're fighting kind of a straw man.

 

The length of the "final book" is going to, conceivably, remain the same between one volume or three volumes. The decision to split it hasn't effected how long the final volume will be.

 

No, Roxinos, if I understand it, the argument that some people are making is that Jordan would have somehow stuffed the entire story into 300 - 350 K words, so that it could be told in one volume.  That would mean that the decision was to add material that Jordan would not have added, to artificially make more volumes that Jordan would never have written, for the sole purpose of extorting more money from the victimized fans.

 

Which is what you said here:

 

The complaints about Tor's splitting the "final book" seem to be more dedicated towards that aspect. The book will be different in presentation, and for purists, that's a problem.

 

That is the point I'm addressing.  For the "purists" who are complaining that the "presentation" will be different, guess what?  It will be.  The original author is dead.  He died on my birthday, after I had been following his series for my entire adult life and more.  Few fans were more saddened by his passing than I was and am.  But the fact is, the instant that happened, AMoL changed.  Irrevocably.

 

So, the "purists" haven't a leg to stand on.  There is no possible way that this book would or could ever be exactly what Robert Jordan would have written.

 

We don't KNOW what Robert Jordan would have written.  But the people making the "one book" argument are claiming that, no matter what, he would have only published one more book, and that any outcome other than that is desecrating his legacy, most likely for profit.  And that is absurd.

 

It assumes that the "only one more book" was his most important desire.  And the evidence of his life's work is against that idea.  He consistently and repeatedly underestimated the amount of space it would take to tell his story.  And every time, he did not choose to truncate the story.  He chose to expand the number of books.

 

Every.

 

Single.

 

Time.

 

There is every reason to believe that if Robert Jordan had lived to complete this work, that he would have faced the same size decisions that Harriet and Brandon are facing.  And the evidence of his life indicates that he would make the same decision they have.

 

What Brandon and Harriet are producing is not exactly what RJ would have written, because it cannot be.  But I am more than satisfied that their primary goal is to get as close to what he would have produced as they can, and it is big enough that it must be split.

 

I would love, as much as anyone, to have the entire story this fall.  Barring that, 2010 would be great.  But even more important to me, is getting the whole story.  That is the choice Harriet and Brandon have made, and I applaud them for it.

[Roxinos]

No, Roxinos, if I understand it, the argument that some people are making is that Jordan would have somehow stuffed the entire story into 300 - 350 K words, so that it could be told in one volume.

 

Hmm...I'm not certain anyone is saying that. I could be wrong, but I'll wait for agreement on the side of those who are actual proponents of that side of the argument to see. If that does turn out to be the case, then I'm on your side.

 

Edit: And it seems most of the "purists" seem to be more concerned with any additional modifications of the "final book" than are necessary (that being, those that aren't just natural consequences of having the original author die).

[Shard]

I do have to agree with RAW on the point that Jordan DID continually promise to end it in "Just two more books guys".

[RobertAlexWillis]

And it seems most of the "purists" seem to be more concerned with any additional modifications of the "final book" than are necessary (that being, those that aren't just natural consequences of having the original author die).

 

My point is, what is the basis for the "purists" concern?  The fact that the book was split.  And so, they must believe that, somehow, Jordan would have gotten it into one.  Which is why they continually bring up his statements to that effect.  Completely removing those statements from the context of what he actually did.  Repeatedly.

 

How do you determine which modifications are "unnecessary"?  None of us have seen the notes.  None of us have the material that the people who made this decision have.  All the "purists" have is:

 

"Nuh-uh!!  Jordan said only one more!  He was gonna give us wheelbarrows!"

 

If the fact that the book was split leads someone to assume that they are adding things Jordan would not, then you must believe that Jordan would have finished it in one and only one.  Which, honestly, is as absurd now as it was when he claimed it would be 3, then 6, and then 8 to 10.

 

If there was no history of this, their point would be slightly .... slightly stronger.  But its not, because there IS a history of this.  A long and consistent history.

[Roxinos]

How do you determine which modifications are "unnecessary"?

 

Irrational feelings, of course. Sheesh.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Nice.  I feel a little better now, Rox, thanks.  ;D

[Roxinos]

I do my best. :D

[DemandredFO]

I voted I really don't care, as long as it is a satisfactory story.  Your poll I believe is bad because, at least to me, it seems that the answer you want is stated in the against RJ's dying wish part.  As far as I am aware RJ did not say as life was leaving him, finish it in one book or make sure it BURNS.

[Charlz Guybon]

Voted Yes.

[Werthead]

I voted No.

 

My original stance was that splitting the book in three when Tor are continuing to publish books that are even longer than each of the two books in the two-volume solution was clearly an idea motivated by money, and given the circumstances of this particular book and the importance of this series and its huge sales to Tor Books' very existence, that did not feel respectful either towards the author's memory or the fanbase.

 

However, it was pointed out to me that Sanderson's expected word count for this book has shot up from 400,000 to 800,000, and may continue to expand. The two-volume solution with each book weighing in at 400,000 words, whilst eminently achievable (Tor are publishing Steven Erikson's novels, which are as long or longer), is cutting it mighty fine. If the book expands again, then three volumes will become inevitable. If Tor announced two books now then had to revise it to three six months down the line, people will be annoyed. So by making it three, they give Sanderson a lot more room to maneuver in Vols II and III. And, as a nice side-effect, we get Vol I this Christmas.

 

So why am I still voting No?

 

I am concerned about Sanderson's statement that he had to add 25,000 words of material to Vol I that wasn't supposed to be there (specifically, material from later in the book) to give the book 'closure'. Apparently Vol II will require even more, Vol III hopefully less. This work entails structural changes to AMoL, presumably meaning variations from the outline RJ provided. Even worse, it definitely means the end of AMoL as a single novel merely split into three sections for publication purposes. This seems immediately to be in violation of RJ's wish the story is finished in one more novel, as it is now being finished in three.

 

My preference would be that AMOL was completed and finished as one book (as Sanderson originally wanted and as is made clear on his blog, he has effectively been prevented from doing by Tor), edited as one book and then a decision was made on how to split it. If it's 950,000 words long and needs three volumes, so be it. Hell, if it's 1.2 million words and needs four, bring it on. But don't turn the volumes into self-contained books, which is not what they were supposed to be, and don't go moving chunks of the story around out of its originally intended order. This isn't a complaint against Brandon, who is performing a Herculean task with enthusiasm and good humour despite the stress levels (which must be astronomical), but it is definitely a major complaint against this, "We must have a release in November 2009 no matter what!" mentality Tor have been working under for no good reason for the past year or so.

 

I know this would mean waiting until 2010 or 2011 before we seen any of the volumes at all, but if it meant the series getting the ending it deserves and that RJ had planned, I think most fans would be okay with that.