Theory on Demandred

[UGAShadow]

So, I sat down and reread the series again (lost count years ago) this past month.  Anyway, I paid attention to see if I could find Demandred.  I think I did.

 

 

The Band was hired to help the King of Murandy (can't remember his name) to unite it under himself.  The problem? The man was supposed to be useless and a fool.  Egwene even mentions that the plan seems to be too well thought out and "good" for the king. 

 

 

Another thing is that each of the other Forsaken have their own territory.  Murandy was claimed by no one.  Its a void.  Much like the Borderlands, but I dont' think any of the Forsaken would be in the Borderlands.

 

 

So I think either, Demandred is a close advisor to the king or has killed him and taken his place. 

[Builder]

I've heard of this theory before, or at least there were speculation that one of the Forsaken took over Murandy. Wouldn't surprise me a bit. The country is in big turmoil and is basically perfect for any Forsaken because there is little Light present there, if you know what I mean.

[lgautam]

Why would Demandred want to consolidate Murandy? I thought he only wanted chaos, chaos and more chaos. I can hardly imagine him working towards so 'petty' an aim.

I didn't look any deeper about Roedran scheming to control Murandy. Besides all his praising Mat's book and getting Talmanes a copy seems - well - so human.

[trakand_01]

Oh god... not another Demandred thread.

 

The theory of him being Roedran has been around before, I can't remember if it was nulled or kept in consideration. I believe however that RJ said that we hadnt seen his alias up until the end of Book 9, but can't remember when we first encountered Roedran?

[Builder]

But we are all sure that Demandred isn't Moiraine?

[trakand_01]

Haha - tricky one! Who's to say the Moiraine we saw before is the Moiraine we will get back?  ;)

[Shard]

I wasn't aware we had ever met Roedran had we? I thought only Talamanes had and then spoke for him to Egwene and for the book audience.

 

I don't see why we can't have a Demandred thread, so long as it's not about Taimdred since RJ did nix that theory. At least Murandy can be considered "in the south" as Sammeal refered to "Demandred using proxies in the south".

[Builder]

Wow, seriously wow!

 

Trakand it's obvious you haven't been here for a long time. I created a thread which was supposed to be serious, but it ended being an over 10 pages long thread where we discussed who was who, and in the end we even discussed making a musical out of the Wheel of Time.

[Jethro]

Trakand has been here longer than a lot of people builder.

 

My belief is that Demandred is behind Masema and the Dragonsworn, but Im not guna go into detail since the discussion on Demandreds alter ego has been done to death and probably has almost as many threads as all that Taimandred malarcky.

[MikeRiley]

If nothing old was discussed on this forum, nothing would be discussed. The search feature has a certain (major) flaw, too. Everybody and their mother has a Wheel of Time based name or a quote in their sig and certain searches bring up nothing but random posts made by those people. There's no harm in a new thread anyway, even if it's been discussed before. The only alternative is 1 new thread every other month and an increasingly inactive forum.

[Shard]

Personally I like the theory of Demandred being the one to set up the Borderlander army going south with 13 Aes Sedai. It just seems like something that a Forsaken would arrange, seriously were talking about a group of people that are raised from the cradle to guard the damn border and here they are sending 300,000 troops AWAY from the border. I mean honestly shouldn't they send emmisaries first before sending armies to make sure Rand is going to do the right thing?

[MikeRiley]

Suppose Sammael was right and wrong in his assumption that Demandred was using proxies to rule in the south? Demandred might have been doing it up north in the borderlands and ordered the Black Ajah out of Tear to go free Taim, putting them in the right place (like a year in advance though) for his plot to turn the borderland rulers against Rand. The sisters knew right where to look to get in on this secret meeting between the rulers and that suggests (assuming the sisters are Black) somebody high up has some real connections in the borderlands.

 

If Sammael is right about the proxies, Demandred couldn't be Roedran. He wasn't all that sure, himself though. Events in the south only looked like Demandred's work. It could have been thrown in there to keep us off track for a major plot line later.. We still don't know what the borderlanders are up to and if we knew Demandred was up there, we could guess.

[Shard]

It is true Sammeal can be wrong about these things but these are some of the only clues we really have. I've wondered if when Sammeal meant south did he mean South of Randland or South of Shayol Ghoul?

[General Cauthon]

I've wondered if when Sammeal meant south did he mean South of Randland or South of Shayol Ghoul?

 

South of Shayol Ghul would be pointless to say, as basicly everything of importance is south of Shayol Ghul. Sammael probably meant somewhere close to Illian, that Demandred was "trespassing" in Sammaels neighbourhood.

 

It could be the Prophet, the Whitecloaks, the rebellion in Tear, or the numerus bands of "dragonsworn" in all the southern coutries. Demandred could have had a hand in all the above, AND the Borderland rulers, AND King Rhoedran. I hope we find out in tGS ;D

[Shard]

Yeah he may very well have a hand in all of that because he certainly was proud of himself at the end of LoC. It would make sense for him to make as much chaos and not tie himself to any one location in Randland.

[Builder]

Man does things begin to look really daisy in Randland. I sure would like to see (read about) Demandred killed. He's made so much poo over Randland that he is practically overdue.

[mnwhiterose]

Don't you find it interesting that RJ has stated (at least for the dead Forsaken) who the alter egos are for the Forsaken, but we don't know about certain individuals.  Mesaana, for one.  We know she's in the Tower, but who?  Demandred uses proxies.  He is the voice behind the power.  So, it is entirely possible that we have heard of his alter, but he is not a main character, such as a king or major lord.  He could be an advisor, like the guy who caused Aridol (sp) to collapse.  For the life of me, I can't remember his name and I'm at work, so I don't have my books.  His name means Wormwood, I think.

 

Anyway - whose to say that Demandred's alter is a major player?  And, I bet we are all going to slap our foreheads when we do learn, because it will be so obvious.  Or not.

[Dark Justice]

I for one have been waiting for a Demandred POV where he thinks about the stuff he has been up to. He could have been the one setting up a lot of mess, but he is not the guy to become king in a unimportant country. He is WAY to arrogant for that. Controlling events all over the gameboard is more up to his liking i think.

[mb]

The king of Murandy being Demandred's alias; that sounds more credible than the other theories on Demandred.

Yet these points could be against it:

-The king of Murandy was at the Aes Sedia meeting on the ice.

-Aes Sedia & Warders are able to detect really bad Darkfriends.

-Demandred would be a really bad Darkfriend.

 

Causing the borderlanders to go south, that might be more probable.

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

The king of Murandy was at the Aes Sedia meeting on the ice.

 

Roedran was not at that meeting. The major Murandians were Donel do Morny a'Lordeine, Cian do Mehon a'Macansa, Paitr do Fearna a'Conn and Segan do Avharin a'Roos.

 

Aes Sedia & Warders are able to detect really bad Darkfriends.

 

But apparently not the Forsaken ... remember Halima?

 

Demandred would be a really bad Darkfriend.

 

See above.

 

Still, I think it is unlikely that Demandred is posing as anyone.  He's pulling an Ishamael, and manipulating from behind the scenes.

 

[Shard]

 

Aes Sedia & Warders are able to detect really bad Darkfriends.

 

But apparently not the Forsaken ... remember Halima?

 

 

And Messana.

[Ashaman Kovan]

 

Aes Sedia & Warders are able to detect really bad Darkfriends.

 

But apparently not the Forsaken ... remember Halima?

 

 

And Messana.

 

And Dashiva/Osan'Gar

[Majsju]

Aes Sedia & Warders are able to detect really bad Darkfriends.

 

But apparently not the Forsaken ... remember Halima?

 

 

 

Not only the forsaken, but all DF channelers seem to be "invisible". Would have been quite difficult to have the BA walking around in the WT for centuries otherwise. Someone in Rands entourage should have spotted Elza by now. Etc.

 

Actually, even non-channelers seem hard to spot. Take Mellar in Caemlyn for example. He is as bad as they come, yet noone notices anything.

 

Seems like the ability to sense DFs is wildly exaggerated...

[Builder]

Is there any ability to sense DF's?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Moiraine thought there might be, but in practice, we've never seen one detected by "feel".