perrin's hammer

[Obligatory WOT Reference]

I was wondering what sort of damage a blacksmith's hammer could do in a battle. I could imagine it'd be very unwieldy and awkward to use, especially if you're swinging it as hard as perrin probably is. If he goes up against anything that can dodge his first swing, he's toast. What i picture the hammer to be like is it's got a short handle and just a massive head. The overall balance of it would be kinda off. If that's the wrong kind of hammer please, enlighten me.

[Luckers]

People did use warhammers in battle. I'm not sure how similar a blacksmiths hammer would be to a warhammer, but it was done, and successfully.

 

Perrin states that he cannot move his hammer as fast as the sword, yet he still does hold his own against Aram to a degree.

[Casco]

Perrin uses a dagger in the other hand. He dual wield them, and are very good at it.

[spothistto]

He probably won't need that very much in any case. Only reason he charged for the town was to find Faile. Now that she is out of trouble, he don't have the reason to personally join battles. He will sit in a tent with Rand and Mat when soldiers do their fighting.

"When a general joins the battle, then he becomes a soldier like any other," or whatever Mat said. Something like that.

[metria31183]

I was wondering what sort of damage a blacksmith's hammer could do in a battle. I could imagine it'd be very unwieldy and awkward to use, especially if you're swinging it as hard as perrin probably is. If he goes up against anything that can dodge his first swing, he's toast. What i picture the hammer to be like is it's got a short handle and just a massive head. The overall balance of it would be kinda off. If that's the wrong kind of hammer please, enlighten me.

 

My soon to be father in law ws a blacksmith before he had a stroke and we have some of his hammers in our home.  Smith's hammers aren't much longer than a standard claw hammer that you would use to drive a nail to hang picture.  The heads are bigger and heavier though.  My hand measures 7.5 inches from middle finger tip to heel and is 4.5 wide and the heads of his hammers aren't much bigger than my hand.  They are usually made of denser material than household hammers so they are much heavier.

[RobertAlexWillis]

There are a variety of "smith's hammers" as metria noted; but any would be capable of doing serious damage in the hands of someone with Perrin's physique.

 

The primary design difference between a "war hammer" and a "smith's hammer" is the length of the handle, since most "war hammers" were designed to be used from horseback.  The massive hammer-heads that we see in graphic novels and fantasy art are just that; fantasy.  An actual hammer with a head as large as some of those would be entirely unusable.

 

Believe me, the "small" hammers can do plenty of damage.  If you don't believe me, go whack someone in the head with a regular carpenter's hammer as hard as you can.  Then write me from jail.

 

No, wait!  Don't!

 

Crap ... why doesn't anyone believe me?  :P

[Caedn of the Taardad]

I think there was some mention of his hammer being about "ten pounds of steel", though I could be remembering incorrectly, and I don't have my books on me now...  I think it was either in tSR, when he is in the Ways, or perhaps in KoD when he was facing Aram, but more likely the former than the latter.  Anyway, if that is the case it gives you an idea of how large it would be. 

[MikeRiley]

The massive hammer-heads that we see in graphic novels and fantasy art are just that; fantasy.  An actual hammer with a head as large as some of those would be entirely unusable.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say they were entirely unusable. Some of those look like they'd make perfectly good anvils, and if you had somebody strong enough to drag that shaft around you could even transport them easier.

 

 

My cat is very light, she was sick a few days ago and I took her to the vet. Much to my surprise, she weighed 9 pounds, 3 ounces. 10 pounds is not a lot. It would still be slower than a sword of course but I bet the weight would be about the same as one, too. It's just bulkier.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I can promise you, Mike, ten pounds gets a lot heavier than you think, a lot faster than you think, when you're trying to hit someone with it.  I'm a pretty big guy, I don't lose a lot of arm wrestling contests, and swinging a ten pound hammer will wear you out.  Quick.

 

You're right about the anvils, though.  I guess I just wasn't being inventive enough!  ;D

[42Bonzo88]

    If I can remember the legend correctly (and if not please enlighten me) but I think John Henry used a nine or ten pound hammer on the railroad.

 

    He supposedly went all day, swinging so fast and hard that the spikes were 'glowing red'.

 

    I'm assuming that Perrin would be approx. the height and weight of John Henry and he's not just hammering but swinging that axe in every way possible. Perrin might not last 'all day' but if he can swing like that against flesh and bone with some armor, he'll do considerable damage to where if his enemies were smart they would avoid him as much as possible.

Just my opinion.

 

    By the way, does anyone know the difference in weight between his hammer and the Axe?

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

If I can remember the legend correctly (and if not please enlighten me) but I think John Henry used a nine or ten pound hammer on the railroad.

 

He supposedly went all day, swinging so fast and hard that the spikes were 'glowing red'

 

I'm assuming that Perrin would be approx. the height and weight of John Henry and he's not just hammering but swinging that axe in every way possible. Perrin might not last 'all day' but if he can swing like that against flesh and bone with some armor, he'll do considerable damage to where if his enemies were smart they would avoid him as much as possible.

Just my opinion.

 

Point one: The word "legend" figures prominently in your first sentence.

 

Point two: The difference between hitting stationary spikes and a moving target who swings back is enormous.

 

By the way, does anyone know the difference in weight between his hammer and the Axe?

 

I don't know if the weight of his axe is ever specified, but battle axes in general do not exceed five pounds in weight, and they're heavier than swords.  A longsword, for example, rarely exceeds three pounds.

 

Ten pounds is a very heavy hand-weapon.

 

[deathgate]

I can promise you, Mike, ten pounds gets a lot heavier than you think, a lot faster than you think, when you're trying to hit someone with it.  I'm a pretty big guy, I don't lose a lot of arm wrestling contests, and swinging a ten pound hammer will wear you out.  Quick.

 

You're right about the anvils, though.  I guess I just wasn't being inventive enough!   ;D

 

I used to drive in ground rods with a 6 lb hammer. It took many, many blows to get a 6 foot rod all but one inch into the ground. After a while I became pretty decent with that thing. I can imagine a blacksmith who is hammering and lifting iron all the time would not have any trouble with that or even a full sledge hammer. I will admit a prolonged battle or fight would favor a lighter one.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I used to drive in ground rods with a 6 lb hammer. It took many, many blows to get a 6 foot rod all but one inch into the ground. After a while I became pretty decent with that thing. I can imagine a blacksmith who is hammering and lifting iron all the time would not have any trouble with that or even a full sledge hammer.

 

See Point Two, deathgate.  The changes in angular momentum necessary in hand to hand fighting take an enormous toll.  When you drive in a spike, you are pretty much guiding the hammer in a motion in which gravity helps you on the drive point, and the resistance of the target absorbs the energy of your blow, meaning that you don't have to take that burden when you raise the hammer again.  Hand to hand fighting is an entirely different ball of wax. 

 

Also, 10 lbs is 167% of 6 lbs.  The extra four pounds makes a huge difference.  Its like having a longsword tacked on to the end of your hammer.  OK, with better balance, but the weight differential is there.

[deathgate]

I don't know enough to disagree only to point out that at the time I was about 130 pounds and only did that occasionally. A huge specimen like Perrin who swung those all the time would have a much easier time. Maybe someone who has smithy experience along with old weapons experience can elaborate more.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Thats why Perrin can do it at all.  It is astounding that he can keep up with a swordsman like Aram, or any of the spear-wielding Aiel, for any period of time at all.  Anyone who isn't as huge as Perrin would have no chance.

[Obligatory WOT Reference]

i always imagined perrin's hammer as one with a short handle and it has 2 heads on it rather than a head and a claw. and it's steel. do they even have steel in randland or is it all just iron?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yes, they have steel in Randland, and your conception of Perrin's hammer is probably roughly accurate.  No claw.  Head roughly like a sledge.

[MikeRiley]

In the book where he gets the hammer (Dragon Reborn?) he notes that the weight is about the same as his axe when hung at his belt. Might even have been mentioned on his run through the ways following Faile. He brooded over it for a long time after getting the hammer. So I would say the axe is about 10 pounds as well.

[Jethro]

Didnt one of the Chosen mention something about Perrins hammer? Or was it Verin?

[Serenla]

Verrin asked Perin about the hammer and Tylee tells him the part about the Wolfking and the hammer from the Prophecies.  I think that one of the Forsaken encouaraged him to switch to it but I don't remember the exact situation.

[Jethro]

Yes, they have steel in Randland, and your conception of Perrin's hammer is probably roughly accurate.  No claw.  Head roughly like a sledge

 

It has a spike to balance it. Even though Perrin comments that the axe and hammer seem to weigh the same, the hammer feels lighter. If he dual wielded both, one in each hand, that would be decent. I like his hammer and dagger style though.

 

Perrin fits the Ranger class in D&D better than anhy other fantasy character I have read about. Yes, even more than Aragorn.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

Yes, they have steel in Randland, and your conception of Perrin's hammer is probably roughly accurate.  No claw.  Head roughly like a sledge

 

It has a spike to balance it. Even though Perrin comments that the axe and hammer seem to weigh the same, the hammer feels lighter. If he dual wielded both, one in each hand, that would be decent. I like his hammer and dagger style though.

 

 

That was his axe, not the hammer, I'd have to agree with the roughly sledge shaped description for the hammer.  The Axe has a battle spike on back, he kills a Trollock with it at the beggining of tDR and mentions it often in other books. 

 

And I seem to recall him mentioning that the axe weighed half as much as the hammer, yet the hammer felt lighter.  I'd check now, but my brother is borrowing that book at the momment, so I don't have a quote.  I may be able to use another copy later today though, so I'll try to get back on this...

[Jethro]

Sorry I misread

[Luckers]

Didnt one of the Chosen mention something about Perrins hammer?

 

Both Ishamael and Lanfear comment on Perrin's choice between hammer and axe--presumably because of the prophecy Tylee stated.

[Kaznen]

Perrin's hammer is like a sledge.  A pointed back would be worthless on a smith's hammer but a second head would be helpful.

 

And a warhammer is closer in size to a carpender's hammer then a smith's hammer.  The leverage adds to the momentum and the smaller head concentrates more force into a smaller spot, making plate armor more likely to dent.