Answers Needed

[Josh]

I'm currently semi-arguing with someone in WoTMUD about Fades and Shaidar Haran and the True Power. He was commenting on how there are no Female Fades. Why is this? He also commented that Shaidar Haran uses the True Power and has saa. Can anyone prove/disprove this with exact quotes/page numbers? He also claims that all Foresaken, Moridin, and Shaidar Haran can see the True Power in use as well as where it has been used. Can this be proved/disproved by anyone?

 

I've tried looking, but frankly don't know where to look and my entire series is on loan to a friend. I really appreciate any possitive help.

[Guest Majsju]

Just because we haven't seen any female Myrdraals doesn't necessarily mean there are none. Unless RJ has mentioned that somewhere, and I've missed it.

 

It's impossible for SH to have the Saa, since he kinda lacks the part of the body where it's manifested. Whether or not he uses TP is so far a major RAFO. He has some powers, but exactly how that works remains to answered.

 

As for seeing TP in use, do you mean the actual weave, or the threads used maiing the weave? The weave can be seen by anyone, as when Rand sees Moridin use balefire in ACOS. The individual threads can only be seen by the one actually weaving them though.

[Luckers]

There are no female myrdraal. Myrdraal are born offshoots of the Trolloc line and are sterile. Each one is exactly like all the others in height, weight and gender. Specifically look to the various references to Myrdraal using human women for sport, it paints a pretty clear picture.

 

Maj is right about the Saa and the Shadar Haren using the saa. As for sensing the true power in use, no one but the weaver and potentially the dark one can do that.

 

Maj, i think you are wrong to call the effects the weave. We have seen that a lightning weave, and the actual lightning seen is not the same thing. The visible manifested effects of a weave can be seen, yes. But the weave itself can only be seen by the weaver.

[Laurenna]

I seem to remember Moridin using the true power to kill a rat ( :( ) , and one of the forsaken present, at least, could not see it being used.

[HighLordXanthus]

With the TP only the result of the flows can be seen by any other. I.E. rand seeing the Balefire that moridin created, but not the weaves and flows or even that he held the source.

 

The Saa, Shaidar Haran cannot have these, he has no eyes!! the saa are the little black flecks that stream across the eyes of those who use the TP to much.

 

There is actually no proof that the SH can actually use the TP or if the effects he uses are actually just super fade powers, but it is more likely to be the TP.

[fader6818]

Just a recap, others got to it first.

 

Myrdraal are steril. Their semen can cause death or insanity to human women (this is mentioned in the Big White Book). Myrdraal are all male, and are born from Trollocs, meaning they continue even without reproducing.

 

As a side note, Trollocs are the mix of animal and human stock. When a Trolloc passes a very specific human gene to it's offspring, that child is Myrdraal. The gene, in humans, allows one to touch the True Source.

 

Shaidar Harana can not have the saa. It very clearly referes in the books (A Crown of Swords, Moghedien scene in specific) that SH does not have eyes, like all other Fades. Moridin, and Ishameal, had the black flecks in their eyes that we now know to be saa. If saa can affect another part of the body, there is NO evidence at all in ANY of the books.

 

As to the nature of the True Power... The jury is still out. What we DO know is that ONLY the person making the weaves can see or sense them (as one would sense channeling). So, for example, Lews Therin could NOT see the weaves that Elan Morin used to heal him and he could NOT sense him channeling at all. However, the EFECT of the weaves (the bar of balefire, in Moridin's case) can be seen by anyone, including a non-channeler.

 

We are unsure if SH can use the TP. There's lots of evidence to, and lots of evidence against, which I am sure RJ did on purpose.

 

And as for others using the True Power... From the points of view of the Chosen (cause that's how they think of themselves ) anyone who can channel can also channel the True Power. However, doing so requires the Dark One's permission, and channeling the TP is so risky that the Chosen have decided only to do so in DIRE need. That Moridin did it exclusivly kind of scared them. It mentions somewhere the specific number that had been allowed. It also says most of them were Chosen that died before the Bore was Sealed (there were originally 26).

[andpato]

It said in the books somewhere (I think it was in Moradin thougths) that only another one embracing the True Source can see it, and as now only Moradin can do it, nobody can see it.

[rochaid]

luckers is right...only the DO can sense the TP bein used...RJ said it himself,and in aCoS moggy says the TP was denied to her,it could only bedrawn with the DO's bleesin,she aslo says only 29 others were ever granted its use

[algspkr]

I'm currently semi-arguing with someone in WoTMUD about Fades and Shaidar Haran and the True Power. He was commenting on how there are no Female Fades. Why is this?

Fades are all throwbacks from the trollocs, they are all identical, this is mentioned in the first discription of Shadar Haran. There are also hints that they rape women thoughout the series, making them male.

 

He also commented that Shaidar Haran uses the True Power and has saa. Can anyone prove/disprove this with exact quotes/page numbers?

Saa are black flecks floating across the eyes of a person who has used too much of the True Power, Shadar Haran lacks eyes and so cannot have the saa. He may be immune to the side effects of the True Power, he may have other issues, or he may use something besides the True Power, though it is obvious that he does something like channelling.

 

He also claims that all Foresaken, Moridin, and Shaidar Haran can see the True Power in use as well as where it has been used. Can this be proved/disproved by anyone?

 

In one of Sammeal's meetings with the Shaido we see that no one but someone using the True Power can sence it. I do not believe there is any evidence of Shadar Haran having this ability, or of other fades lacking it, but the Gholam can identify it.

[Chel Vanin]

I kind of doubt that SH can use the TP, because when he "dealt" with mesaana she tried to use the OP and it wasn't even there, as if she were in a stedding. Seeing as how he describes himself as the "hand of the dark one" he would have some extra powers, and I can't remember, but in Shayol Ghul is it that the OP can't be even felt (ala stedding) or is it that touching it would surely incur the DO's wrath? If it can't even be sensed then that would point to SH not using the TP just having some powers from the DO.

[andpato]

But the gholam sense something, when Moridin is in the palace in Ebou Dar, after all the women Travel to the farm, he sense it and thougth that its different that the One Power, but its also appetizing.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

shaidar doesnt have eyes for the saa to float across

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Quote "I kind of doubt that SH can use the TP, because when he "dealt" with mesaana she tried to use the OP and it wasn't even there, as if she were in a stedding. Seeing as how he describes himself as the "hand of the dark one" he would have some extra powers, and I can't remember, but in Shayol Ghul is it that the OP can't be even felt (ala stedding) or is it that touching it would surely incur the DO's wrath? If it can't even be sensed then that would point to SH not using the TP just having some powers from the DO"

 

The fact that she couldnt sense the Source could be the result of a True Power shield being placed on a channeler. Only the wielder can sense the True Power-so somebody shielded by it wouldnt sense the shield, they would simply know they cant touch the source. Remember that the True Power is different-different rules apply the same as with Saidin and Saidar.

 

As for the One Power and Shayol Ghul, Im sure Demandred could feel the Power only he said even thinking about embracing it in the Pit of Doom could be enough to incurr the Dark Ones wrath.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, women who are shielded with saidin cannot sense saidin, but they can still sense the Source behind it. Shaidar Haran seems to create an absence of the Source, (Aran'gar and Osan'gar couldn't even sense it when they were held by him) which would be consistent with his being a physical extension of the Dark One, since the Dark One wants to break the Wheel, thus really screwing the Source (to put it mildly).

[Marrow Rahien]

fader6818 Said

Myrdraal are steril. Their semen can cause death or insanity to human women (this is mentioned in the Big White Book). Myrdraal are all male, and are born from Trollocs, meaning they continue even without reproducing.

 

 

Man, I have got to break down and read the Big White Book. That is just nutters to the extreme.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Myrdraal dont have the saa, because the saa float across the eyes, which Myrdraals dont have

[Cancerian]

The Big White Book? A hole in my knowledge! Can someone elucidate?

[Guest Majsju]

popular name for The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel Of Time, by Teresa Patterson & Robert Jordan.

 

A neat little book that expands the world a bit and gives additional info and background on things like AOL, Seanchan etc.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its Big and White ... after you take the dustcover off.

[Taishar Manetheren]

In my opinion Shaidar cant channel the TP and his power are from the dark one and im guessing that his blocking the source ability works only on those who gave themselfs to the dark one.

I dont want to think if he could just come near Rand and block him from the source completely.

[drakhon]

...his blocking the source ability works only on those who gave themselfs to the dark one.

 

That was my assumption as well. We know that there is some connection to the DO even for standard Darkfriends as Fain is able to sense them.

 

It seems that if he could do it to everybody they would have long since gone around killing non-DF channelers.

[Gentled Ben]

Well, it was SH who captured Cabriana Mecades and her warder, bringing them to Semi for fun, games, and 20 questions. Surely, he shielded her. I mean, judging from NS, Cabriana was fairly weak in the power, but still, she would have fought the kidnapping.