WoT re-read. EotW. Part 1/5. (Chapters 1-10)

[loki redfern]

I think the Father of Lies is lying... I think that he may be able to catch souls and restore them into new bodies (we've examples for this), but I think that for him to do so the soul in question need already be his. And I'm not at all sure of if he can keep a soul alive without a body... it seems some "restored" Forsaken would have gotten better bodies if they had been able to wait for them... Now they just got what they could get.

 

isnt there a time window as mentioned as well, ilyena may have been dead to long

[nstinson2004]

Is there a limit to how long she must have been dead or something?

[NEisberg]

Hey im new here and just started a re-read of my own and am exactly where u are..

 

i was wondering why, when Rand was describing the "black figure that the wind did not touch" to Tam...why didn't Tam recognize it as it was. Its been a while since i read the books...i believe Fades? i hope lol..

He's seen trolloks and such...

 

Is there a limit to how long she must have been dead or something?

 

i think it may be along the lines of TOO long dead

[Minnea]

i was wondering why, when Rand was describing the "black figure that the wind did not touch" to Tam...why didn't Tam recognize it as it was. Its been a while since i read the books...i believe Fades? i hope lol..

He's seen trolloks and such...

 

Tam didn't see any Trolloc before they invaded Emond's Field, he just heard the stories and connected them fast..

 

*skipping forward to chapter 5*

Tam says: "I never saw one before tonight, but I've talked with men who have, so I know a little. Maybe enough to keep us alive."

 

He problably heard about Fades too, and that's why he got wary when Rand described what he saw... and when they got back to the farm he took out his sword.

 

 

Quote:

Is there a limit to how long she must have been dead or something?

 

 

i think it may be along the lines of TOO long dead

 

Agrees. I think the DO has to take the soul immideately when death occurs, otherwise it is too late. But I may be wrong...

[Featherless Hawkwing]

That is true. The Dark One must seize a soul the moment it is freed of its mortal coil, although perhaps once snatched, he does not need to instantly (but quickly nevertheless) need to find a receptacle for the soul. This is one of the reasons why balefire can thwart him. Despite ruling all those who are Dead, the DO cannot actually give life to those Dead unless in the form of harmless ghosts, like glimpses of another dimension. Since balefire ends life before death takes place, even the weakest weave cannot be worked around or beaten to the punch. So, unless the DO had planned to give Ilyena back in case she died as a bribe, he was lying. Besides, in the beginning of the Third Age the Seals were at their strongest, and I think they would have kept the Dark One from snatching good people's souls. Of course, Ishamael, only bound and free for patches of forty years, was still abroad, and was probably only bound thirty years after the scene in the prologue.

[Jinjurluv]

It would be really cool and put things into perspective if we could try to create a timeline for all these things as we go along reading the books. Even if its only to say the order things happen in (this happens before this). Only problem is I have no idea how to make a working timeline on a chat board!

[havoc110]

check out sevenspokes.com for a comprehensive WoT timeline.

 

very handy reference indeed

[nstinson2004]

In Regards to a timeline...

 

does anyone have any idea what time periods these were in?

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Erm, what time period? As in time period in the books or time period in relation to us?

 

Judging by the Legends of the Age, we're the Age before the AOL, and in this age we will discover channeling and by the time the next comes around we'll have achieved a utopian society. Then Mierin frees the DO and there's havoc all over the place, with ten years of war and corruption of all the goodness in the world.

 

After the Breaking, everyone is scattered all over the place, a third of the world's channelers are dead or dying (and taking others with them) with plenty more women dying as well. All technology, all the great architecture, all the trust and harmony is lost.

 

That's why they've reverted to about a ... 13th-century state. No, 14-th. 15th? When were firearms invented? Well, just before that.

 

Anywhere between 14th and 18th, really.

 

But there's a problem with this theory. The Age of Legends did not have "technology" as we describe it. Yes, they had machines and all kinds of conveniences that were manmade, but they were Power-powered. Batteries? OP batteries. Power cords? OP power cords. Tasers? OP tasers. Swords? OP swords. Guns? OP guns.

 

Now however, Rand is moving the world toward a much more conventional advancement, using science and physics and chemistry and biology, and eventually they'll discover electricity as well. It all seems to be leading up to us. But it couldn't be us, could it? If we were before the Age of Legends, then it seems like a mini-cycle, and a pretty simple one at that, to just go back to a near-identical state two ages later? Which are we? Does anyone have any ideas?

 

If that wasn't the question you were asking, I've wasted some serious time and space.

[nstinson2004]

Time to start chapter 2!

 

Need some other guys to read some also!:)

[Kadere]

Just for the record, I think this is an awesome idea, and I'd TOTALLY be participating, if I wasn't already half way through Winter's Heart.

[wtfv]

Hey, I read the forum with some frequency, but i've never posted before. I registered just to say that I'm re-reading the series too!!! So, nstinson, you're not alone on your quest....

 

I just found my teotw yesterday, and I'm still on chapter one. But I think I'm able to read chapter 2 at time.

 

I'll try to contribute with the discussion, even though I do not have the same knowledge that you guys have.

[nstinson2004]

Don't worry man, I'm not all that knowledgeable, just ask questions and point out things you like and such

[Featherless Hawkwing]

... and we answer them? :)

[nstinson2004]

I am leaving today and will be gone for a week. Please keep re-reading while I am gone!

[nstinson2004]

ok, home again!

 

Have a LOT to do today, but hopefully can get back to the re-read soon:)

[Graf Ashaman]

Hi all!

 

I work too much so I found this discussion just right now...

 

For the technology in the AOL I belief it was highly scientific and the technology not only used the OP as powering up those machienes. For example when Sammael is in Illian he complaines that hes does not have "shock-lances" A shock-lance sounds to me like a lance with an electrice discharge that will stunn an enemy. Think of the stunning guns that you can buy anywhere right now. Also the "sho-wings" sound like airoplanes to me. But anyway...

 

Why did Ishy not kill LTT and was angry because LTT comitted suicide? A note which might be a clue to the answer of this question is: Why does not the DO let anybody kill Rand and why does he want Rand made Naeblis? The DO awards those who severed him the most Naeblis, and throughout the series the Forsaken always repeat themselfs that they are jealous because Rand would be made Naeblis if kneeling to the DO. In the prologue Ishy heals LTT from the taint, showing him the destruction he has made by himself, including killing Ilyena and (sorry if I spoil somebody not having read the series already) if you remember the game Moridin plays with the fisher? You could only win when the fisher was in your possesion and on the other side of the gameboard. Also the fisher when in possesion of the dark side (kneeling to the DO, or being tainted and crazy I think is the same) is slow but extremly powerful but when controlled by the light he is vulnerable but agile and fast. I think the reason why Ishy is so angry he could bite nails heads off is because he nearly won the game but by healing LTT he gave him a chance to escape and win the game for the light, therfore the wheel would still keep on turning, if the Shadow wins time and reality ends...

[Guest Majsju]

Most of Ishy's and the DO's reasoning is of course a major RAFO.

 

But one plausible explanation is this. The Wheel will always spin out the Dragon at key moments in the weave, so that the Dragon can fight the DO. Now, what would be the easiest way to avoid this? Make the Dragon turn to the shadow, so that the DO can grant him immortality. At least immortality in the sense that he can be put into a new body if he dies. Next time you reach the key point in the pattern where the Dragon is supposed to be reborn, he can't, because he's not dead yet. The DO wins by default.

 

And if LTT had been stubborn and refused to turn, Ishy could simply have put him in a stasis box. Same result, but less satisfying.

[Graf Ashaman]

Too risky with the stasis box... because some of them might stop working -> being Taveren would cause LTT´s stasis box to stop working and kill him. No I think that LTT has to kneel to the DO and serve him but I agree with you that most is Rafo, but speculation is the only thing we can do right now and I think I am right with my comparing of the fisher game and how it is working with LTT, the DO and Ishy. Remember that Ishy said that LTT sometimes knelt to the DO in his former lifes and battles (asuming of course he did not lie while telling that, but I think he did not lie), I guess there lies the key to all the answers.

[Guest Majsju]

I'm quite sure Ishy's comment about the Dragon serving the DO is a lie. To use RJ's own comment of the matter...

 

Question: Ishamael mentions in prior turnings of the wheel that the soul of Lews Therin was raised up as the Shadow’s champion, and if that is the case, who was the champion of the creater, was it ….

 

Jordan: You believe Ishamael??? Sorry, man, but c’mon!

[Graf Ashaman]

I'm quite sure Ishy's comment about the Dragon serving the DO is a lie. To use RJ's own comment of the matter...

 

Question: Ishamael mentions in prior turnings of the wheel that the soul of Lews Therin was raised up as the Shadow’s champion' date=' and if that is the case, who was the champion of the creater, was it ….

 

Jordan: You believe Ishamael??? Sorry, man, but c’mon![/i']

 

Ok, I did not know that RJ said that. But even better it strengthens my theory about needing LTT to kneel to the DO, as Ishy always said "Better alive than dead but either way you will serve". I think that means if either LTT submits to the DO as his master or being killed by a Darkfriend or Forsaken will give the DO a lever to control LTT´s soul.

[chelle_7272]

Just wanted to say what a great idea this is - I would love to join in but am further on with my re-read, just finishing ACoS. I'm still enjoying reading all your posts tho as a lot of have such in depth knowledge. Cheers guys :)

[Jarred Darque]

we on chapters 2 and 3 yet at least? some important characters introduced and some info to be used later.

[imsoen]

Is this still going? The last post was over a month ago. I'd like to join in when I can - just finished KoD and about to start a re-read.

[details]

Yeah, I'd be stoked to join this too...like someone said earlier, I read way too quickly, and rarely pay attention to what I consider minutiae. A discussion group would be great, I think. 8)