Christmas Mafia

CatinaSedai · December 10, 2008

hmph myndrunner you are all over the place with your votes. you jumped around between me and vemy and then back to me like you wanted to see who would vote with you. i think you are mafia scum and trying to manipulate everyone.

[glow=green,2,300]unvote vemynal[/glow]

[glow=green,2,300]vote myndrunner[/glow]

now then im sorry if i have seemed vague or anything but that is a bunch of bull because people are saying i am scum because i voted so quickly against vemy but i voted for a very rationale reason. he contradicted himself and i feel that all this time he has been trying to manipulate us this whole game. however myndrunner has really been bouncing around not committing to any one vote or another. i think he is scum and should be the first to go.

and yes i hate finals with a passion. im so glad they are over. good night.

Myndrunner · December 10, 2008

Ok, first I had to re-write most of this because of what Catina just posted so..... :P

Catina, there is only one real reason you just voted me and lets admit it. You are saving your behind! You were the only one with four votes on and so just now after all of this you suddenly don't think Vemy is Mafia? This only FURTHER convinces me of your scumminess to use the parlance of the game!

Lia, actually Barmy did say no more red for the rest of the day. Its in an earlier post.

Loreina, I urge you to consider Catina. She will give us the most information either way, but she is just off the charts with my mafia radar right now. Plus, we should try for a majority lynch in this case.

I think the coroner report for Catina will reveal the most. She has loosely been aligned to the lynch effort on Vemy with Cosmic. If she turns up mafia, which is likely, then I think Cosmic Panda should be next on our list. If she turns up innocent, then I think ol' Vemy needs a looksie!

As always, I am willing to consider other options but this is the way I see it right now!

Myndrunner · December 10, 2008

By the way, for the rest of today, I will only accept votes glowed [glow=green,2,300]green[/glow].

This is what I was referring to but he may have meant that physical day and not Day 1. So.... sorry. :-\

Tigara · December 10, 2008

Ordinarily, Tig will lie low as Mafia. But this time? I just don't know.

Tig is packing to move. Tig lays low all the time except when Tig has a special role like a finder or vig. Tig likes refering to Tig in the third person. Tig is going to [glow=green,2,300]unvote[/glow] then vote [glow=green,2,300]Catina[/glow] so that we can get this day over with.

Vemynal · December 10, 2008

technically Mynd you voted me for the same reasons Catina's voting you earlier

and lets face it, after i placed my vote on Catina you voted catina because this put catina at 3 votes and me and you at 2 votes. instead of both of us at 3 votes and one of us likely to die.

Course that doesnt necessarily mean your scum- I was willing to vote you earlier in an effort to live if i had to.

Just thinking you shouldn't be lecturing catina on that particular subject is all^^

As for if Catina's innocent- I'll remind you that it doesn't prove my guilt or innocence either way.

Your basing your suspicion of catina on her response to my post, and your effort to live, not the other way around.

side note- tig is an odd individual...

Tigara · December 10, 2008

Tig is glad Vemy Noticed! ;D

Hybrid · December 10, 2008

My vote on cosmicpanda doesn't seem to be doing too much for us right now. Wednesday's approaching and there's a tie for the lead in votes so far.

EDIT: No tie any longer. In any case, I find Catina to be the more scummy than Mynd, especially her first couple of serious posts, where she jumps on Vemy for not much reason and then claims that she is being unfairly targeted. Though Mynd toning it down a bit is a little suspicious. I would suggest that the Finder check one of Mynd, Vemy, or cosmic tonight.

[glow=green,2,300]Unvote and vote Catina.[/glow]

Myndrunner · December 10, 2008

Don't mess with the Tig! 8)

I wasn't saying that my reasons for flip-flopping were any different, but I wasn't gonna sit here and let Catina play off her reasons for switching to me. I mean, let's be honest for a change.....even in Mafia!

I'm likely sure that she is mafia, and that would mean we should take a look at who was voting with her. That would be Cosmic Panda in this case. I still think at least one of the mafia is sitting back. At least it was good to see Verbal back. I was worried he hadn't posted much at all....very unlike him.

Mynd toning it down. Well, I was kinda prepared for this. You see, I've had to play the same in every game and for the first time, I'm trying to tweak my game play. I suppose I will be a target until intelligent posts become expected from me, eh?

cosmicpanda · December 10, 2008

Know what this looks like to me?

[votecount]

It looks like two scum trying to get an innocent lynched. Of course, the votes have changed, and will change again, but Mynd, Panda and Hybrid look very suspicious here.

What? How did you draw that conclusion - specifically, how do you think that Mynd, Hybrid and I are suspicious?

I'd be glad too, as soon as you start spelling out words properly rather than using chatspeak, it's rather annoying :P Btw...

Oh, the irony. :D

@ panda- i don't mind that were not using my idea. At least it got the ball rolling^^

But panda- so far you claim that we should have used a better method for deciding who was to be in the group to narrow things down for the lynch. You said using my idea of those who had been voted for wasn't good enough.

What would you have done to decide how to narrow things down? its day 1- and at that time all we had was people spamming and making goofy votes. No serious discussions, no legit opinions, we had nothing at all to go on. So since my idea was so horrible, what would you have done different then me?

As I've already explained, I would not have excluded people based on votes already cast. Your suggestion of narrowing down the field would result in a lynch, but it's fundamentally flawed if you arbitrarily exclude people based on the random voting stage.

The fact that you don't seem to realise this is suspicious in itself. I suspect you know this but are trying to push ahead and exclude from suspicion the people you don't want lynched, yes?

If we were going to redo Day One according to your idea, perhaps we could could consider everyone in pairs, and discard those we consider less scummy, and do a bit of a tournament system...

Note: I took the player list from barmy and put a space between every two players. I didn't decide who's facing who in this list. (Admittedly, this it a bit random; if you don't like it, another, slower system would be to consider everybody at once and discard one person at a time.)

1. Talya - quite inactive, voting Catina

2. Danya - quite inactive, not voting yet

3. Verbal - quite inactive, not voting yet

4. Vemynal - active, but suggested plan to exclude people from suspicion without reasoning, voting Catina

5. Tigara - also quite inactive; Loreina testifies that he will lay low as mafia. Voting mynd

6. Hybrid - active, defended Vemy's idea, voting for me

7. Thorum - actually, can't recall a specific post he made in this game :-\ but voting mynd apparently

8. Cosmicpanda - confirmed innocent (from my point of view), voting vemy

9. Myndrunner - active, vote hops a bit, currently voting catina

10. Loreina - was inactive, but has recently started posting, currently voting mynd

11. Liathiana - quite inactive, voting catina

12. CatinaSedai - active, has aroused suspicions, voting vemy

Any comments or corrections? I didn't re-read, this is all off the top of my head, so I might have it a bit wrong.

If we do it like this, we'd start by putting the best case against each person that we can (not just one line each like I've done), and then the next thing to do would be to decide which is the scummiest of each pair, and narrow it down and do it again. But I don't see the point, I'm happy with my Vemy vote.

Vemynal · December 10, 2008

you still didn't answer my question panda, you started to but then flailed on about how I'm suspicious and protecting the mafia. Then you told us how you'd have narrowed things down using the current information we have

I'll say it again- when i proposed my idea, we had no information but 5 or 6 goof votes. We had to start somewhere so i suggested we vote for those already up for the cut.

tell me how you would have done things different *back when i proposed my idea*

don't include information we have atm or else your idea isnt better then mine, its simply more informed because, thx to my idea, we have more information now.

imo if we had done things your way- we would have just randomly ended up selecting 6 people anyways. but looky here? my way we already had that.

Hybrid · December 10, 2008

I'd be glad too, as soon as you start spelling out words properly rather than using chatspeak, it's rather annoying :P Btw...

Oh, the irony. :D

Seconded.

6. Hybrid - active, defended Vemy's idea, voting for me

You, sir, are a liar. And therefore obviously mafia. (;) Check out my last post)

Vemynal · December 10, 2008

and discard those we consider less scummy, and do a bit of a tournament system...

was looking for this for my above post. its hard to tell whose scummy with no info on day 1

1. Talya - quite inactive, voting Catina

2. Danya - quite inactive, not voting yet

3. Verbal - quite inactive, not voting yet

4. Vemynal - active, but suggested plan to exclude people from suspicion without reasoning, voting Catina

5. Tigara - also quite inactive; Loreina testifies that he will lay low as mafia. Voting mynd

6. Hybrid - active, defended Vemy's idea, voting for me

7. Thorum - actually, can't recall a specific post he made in this game :-\ but voting mynd apparently

8. Cosmicpanda - confirmed innocent (from my point of view), voting vemy

9. Myndrunner - active, vote hops a bit, currently voting catina

10. Loreina - was inactive, but has recently started posting, currently voting mynd

11. Liathiana - quite inactive, voting catina

12. CatinaSedai - active, has aroused suspicions, voting vemy

I'll respond by the same number he gave above with whether that information he used came before or after I proposed my idea

1. Before- but gives us no info

2. Before- but gives us no info

3. Before- but gives us no info

4. After

5. Before- but other then loreina's meta-gaming gives us no info

6. After

7. well you really didnt say anything here; but thorum only had made a goof vote before my idea

8. you hadn't given us any info prior to my proposal either

9. After

10. After

11. Before- but gave us no info/ After for your second comment

12. After

So panda- you can back up this idea of yours if you want, simply fill in all those "afters" with information we had before my post. Feel free to change my "before- but gave us no info" comments if you actually have info to post.

the next thing to do would be to decide which is the scummiest of each pair, and narrow it down and do it again.

I think i proved the problem with doing this before my proposal...

Vemynal · December 10, 2008

I messed up my quote brackets or something...anyways this was the part that was *my* comments in that post

I'll respond by the same number he gave above with whether that information he used came before or after I proposed my idea

1. Before- but gives us no info

2. Before- but gives us no info

3. Before- but gives us no info

4. After

5. Before- but other then loreina's meta-gaming gives us no info

6. After

7. well you really didnt say anything here; but thorum only had made a goof vote before my idea

8. you hadn't given us any info prior to my proposal either

9. After

10. After

11. Before- but gave us no info/ After for your second comment

12. After

So panda- you can back up this idea of yours if you want, simply fill in all those "afters" with information we had before my post. Feel free to change my "before- but gave us no info" comments if you actually have info to post.

Thorum · December 10, 2008

Mynd is acting less scummy than usual so let's lynch him? I'm not sure I agree with that one. I assume that's me?

For me, "looking scummy" is the same as "doing it different than last time". "acting less scummy than usual" is scummy.

And no, it was not a quote from me.

Anyways, if we want to get a lynch in rather than a free mafia kill and a random lynch, the choices are between Vemy and Catina. They each have 3 votes on them. I could make things even more evenly spread by voting for Mynd, but honestly that'd be more for my sanity sake than any scummy vibes I'm getting from him.

Why are you so sure about mynd not being mafia? If my vote wasn't on one of you two already, I'd change it that way.

7. Thorum - actually, can't recall a specific post he made in this game :-\ but voting mynd apparently

Around, but busy at work (yes, no longer school but work now - that's why I took a couple-of-months mafia break). Maybe I'll have time to go through a reread-on-some-random-persons in the weekend. Not promissing anything though.

Has anyone got a votecount?

cosmicpanda · December 10, 2008

Sorry Hybrid, a little out of date.

you still didn't answer my question panda, you started to but then flailed on about how I'm suspicious and protecting the mafia. Then you told us how you'd have narrowed things down using the current information we have

I'll say it again- when i proposed my idea, we had no information but 5 or 6 goof votes. We had to start somewhere so i suggested we vote for those already up for the cut.

tell me how you would have done things different *back when i proposed my idea*

don't include information we have atm or else your idea isnt better then mine, its simply more informed because, thx to my idea, we have more information now.

imo if we had done things your way- we would have just randomly ended up selecting 6 people anyways. but looky here? my way we already had that.

You're going off the rails a tad, Vemy.

I have told you how I would have done things differently when you posted your idea - rather than starting with those that had goof votes on them, I would have started with everybody. I'm getting tired of making this point.

Let us separate the system of lynching people from the way it's used. Your system involves randomly selecting six people (you said it) and then subjecting them to scrutiny. My system involves considering everybody, and subjecting everybody to scrutiny. Agreed? (Let me just say now that you're wrong when you say that your system randomly chooses people - as you chose those with goof votes, it's not random at all. If you want random, get a random number generator or roll dice or flip a coin.)

Now, if that's settled, surely you can see why it is illogical to try to dismiss my idea by simply criticizing the way I chose to demonstrate it. You'll note in my post that I said:

If we do it like this, we'd start by putting the best case against each person that we can (not just one line each like I've done)

This actually states quite clearly that I didn't actually intend those things I wrote to be used as actual cases against people. They were one-line cases against people merely to prove the concept. Your argument seems to be something like 'the one-line cases cosmicpanda made against people in that post use information from the present, and therefore he's not properly describing his system and why it is better than mine'; however, you're railing against things that I didn't even mean to be considered as arguments. They were merely demonstrating how we would consider the differing cases against people and see who was considered more suspicious.

You also seem to suggest that we would just have been randomly eliminating people if we had used my idea when you suggested yours, because we had no information, and that my idea's therefore no better than yours. This fails to consider the fact that people are likely to have defended themselves; and also, it would have taken several days at least to carry out, so who's to say what information we would have had?

Let me be clear: I'm not rebutting your idea because we had no information; I am rebutting it is fundamentally flawed. You arbitrarily absolve people of suspicion merely because they haven't got a goof-vote and you call this a perfectly reasonable thing to do! I disagree that it is reasonable and suggest that we should instead consider everybody...

You complain that I call you scummy because of this. As I said, I cannot think of a pro-town reason to remove people from suspicion on day one, but can easily think of anti-town reasons to do so. Yes, one of these is to protect scum partners. By removing people from suspicion, you are defending them; I can think of no reason for a townie to jump to another's defense on day one, when, as you say, there is no information. Another anti-town to remove people from suspicion is that by not subjecting players to scrutiny, they're not defending themselves and therefore no information is being created. This suits the scum, who don't want the town to have information.

Talya · December 10, 2008

No wonder you think I'm inactive you do all the posting when I'm a sleep! ::)

Please can we move on from the Vemy and Pandy buisness. Things all changed from when Vemy first mentioned he idea. So lets take it from there.

And yes I always spam when I first start these games...it breaks the ice and until it gets going, its a bit of fun. Which reminds me...thats what these games are about after all, and to win!!!

I'm sticking with my vote on Catina, she just seems to hit my radar a little bit more than Vemy, I guess that should worry me to start, but I really don't see Vemy as mafia, and I usually suspect him every game... :-\

As for Mynd after what happened in the Suras game, I can understand him wanting to change his style slightly, I think something actually sunk in about how people find his way as been scummie!

I know Barmy said that he will lynch the one with the most votes if a majority hasn't been reached (I can't say I in favour of this as it can breed apathy in the voting stakes), but it would be good to get to a majourity.

I would like to see it being a random mlynch if no majourity is reached (hint hint to the MOD for the next Days!!! ;)) :D

Verbal32 · December 10, 2008

*modcoughs* That edit had better have come before you posted your response there Verbal. *evil eye!*

Have no fear Barm.....it was after clicking post and seeing the red writing. I ALWAYS preview before posting. I manually added the word "edit". If I had really edited my post, the italics would be at the bottom.....at least I think it would. :-\

Liathiana · December 10, 2008

Btw is an acronymn and stands for three words rather than just misspelling one ;) Is it so hard to type out "Please" ?

And I am not "quite inactive" I've posted nearly every day :P I'm sorry I don't create a page of posts a day so that I can be "active" enough for you. Not to mention I posted my reasons for not being around much. Now I'm off to work, which pleasantly is much more relaxing than this game! ^^

Myndrunner · December 10, 2008

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas..... ::)

MsDanya · December 10, 2008

Walls of text!! O_o

I think some major re-read is in order for me.

And sorry for any inactivity, I was evaluated at my work today and i've been preparing for the last week. Didnt wanna be fired! oh no!

Myndrunner · December 10, 2008

Meta-Gamers Blog 12.10.08:

Danya never votes on Day 1 because she hates the Day 1 randomness. She still remains quite active and will often post her strong opinions, but she will never vote.

When Danya is mafia, she becomes quite inactive, trying to blend in with the weeds and will blame her work or busy events in her life from keeping her from the game. She likes to downplay her activity and make casual suggestions. When she is innocent, her convictions are much stronger.

Just something for us all to think about as we go forward.... ::)

MsDanya · December 10, 2008

Wow Mynd, I'm sorry my real life is such an inconvinience ::)

It is true that I dont like voting on Day one, this is mostly a habit of mine. I break it occationally, see Suras Game. In this game however, I havent really seen anything truly Mafiaish, which is normal on Day one I would say. *Shrug* Right now I'm thinking Vemy, but nothing really sticks.

CatinaSedai · December 10, 2008

i just want to say that you guys are making a terrible mistake. i am just innocent. not a healer finder vigilante or a mafia. i really dont see how my death will tell you all anything anyhow. when i am revealed as innocent who will you all go after next hmmmm? i think that myndrunner and vemynal are mafia. they both got killed the same time at suras and so i think baracral made them both mafia.

Hybrid · December 10, 2008

i think that myndrunner and vemynal are mafia. they both got killed the same time at suras and so i think baracral made them both mafia.

What? I'm staying on Catina.

Myndrunner · December 11, 2008

Catina....you are a woman after my own heart! There was a huge battle going on and it didn't involve you at all.....but you still felt compelled to post your little comment there. Now, I'm not trying to criticize you at all, in fact, I think you have played a marvelous game....but that last post was a bit much.

So let me get this straight.....you claim that Vemy and I are mafia because we got killed together in another game?

Sorry, sister, but that was quite a reach. And to rebuke your statement, your death will tell us a lot. For starters, when it says MAFIA, it will tell us quite a bit. But lets say you are innocent, then it will tell us a lot about who voted for you. I'm sorry but either way, your death bears fruit.

I will say that you have the makings of a player to watch out for in the future..... ;)

Christmas Mafia

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