Ter'Angreal.

[Ashaman Kovan]

So i'm on another reread of the series and I just finished TGH last night. And I really got to thinking on how creating a Ter'Angreal, specifically an A'dam works. We know how alot of weaves are made, at least as much as anyone who exists in a world without channeling can know. But when it comes to making something like the A'dam it seems almost like it should be computerized. When someone makes one how do they really go about putting all the restrictions and things that are involved in it. Everything from Damane feeling twice over whatever a Sul'Dam does to not being able to move a certain distance away from it when it's not being worn, and getting sick progessively as they try and channel more of the OP. Especially like how Egwene that about hitting Renna with the pitcher and Renna made it to where Egwene couldn't even touch it again until she convinced herself she would never use it to hit her with. Thats almost akin the the oath rod if you think about it, just a much lesser version. So I guess what i'm wondering is when a Ter'Angreal is made and there is spirit invloved, does the maker just like think of all the things they want it to be able to do and then somehow mold that thought into their weave of spirit to make it do that? I don't know if RJ ever really talked about it in an interview or anything but if he did and someone knows where it is, by all means post it up on here.

[Hybrid]

Yeah, if I remember correctly, we never get much detail about the ter'angreal creation process.  All we hear about the process concerns the dream ring Elayne tried to replicate.  The dream ring starts out as stone and then becomes not-stone.  End of details.  Elayne thinks that the colors have to do with its effectiveness, but she doesn't understand/doesn't explain how to change the colors.

 

The question's a good one and I would really like to hear more about the process.  Perhaps in AMOL?  Also, the creation of angreal and sa'angreal would be interesting too.  The ability to make an inanimate object use the power/amplify one's use of the power is intriguing.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

not much to add...but elayne kept on talking about 'matrixes' which sound an awful lot like molecules to me.

[Guest Dreadlord]

None of its been explained yet because we havent had a PoV character that knows the process. I cant see us seeing any newly made sa'angreal in AMoL. Maybe an angreal, and a small one if anything, but the only person who could I think is Elayne and obviously she is pregnant meaning she wont be able to do much at all with the Power, and I doubt that AMoL is going to cover more than nine months

[Ashaman Kovan]

Yeah alas, it's probably one of those things we'll never really know the answer to. Things like that just bug me sometimes, when we have a bunch of things/devices that are crucial to the story line but yet we never really get to learn how any of it works. It's always just conveniently there when it needs to be. It's highly irritating somethings.

[Nateku]

To me, it seemed like the creator would somehow....imprint the weaves of whatever function the ter'angreal was meant for into the the material. So they'd weave the flows and then set it into the object. =/ That's the best I got.

[alStephanie]

Learning more about how all three are made would be cool, and if the answer is not written into AMOL (which unless it suddenly becomes crucially important to the storyline I can't see happening) then if maybe Harriet or someone knows they would maybe say in an interview or something after the release. I would be particularly interested in how they get the ones that use the power to work even for people who don't have the ability to touch/sense/learn to weild the One Power, they seem like they would be even more difficult to make then the others that must be used by on who weilds the power. :-\

[Auld Manriva]

The A'dam has been explained to work somewhat like the Warder Bond hasn't it?

 

I don't think we'll ever have a technical description of making objects that work with the OP. Seems to be a talent, if the lack of being able to MAKE them by the Forsaken is any indication.

 

Things like this are always left to the readers imaginations mostly if you really consider. Wormholes in S/Fi are vaguely described as are a whole array of things. There is usually some pseudo/science and vague explanation given but it's fantasy. So detailed description is going to be lacking.

[Mr Ares]

Things like this are always left to the readers imaginations mostly if you really consider. Wormholes in S/Fi are vaguely described as are a whole array of things. There is usually some pseudo/science and vague explanation given but it's fantasy. So detailed description is going to be lacking.

And so it should be. A vague explanation and a bit of handwaving is enough. We don't need another book devoted entirely to tying the OP to string theory in an effort to explain how things work in "enough" detail.

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

Here is my vauge, psuedoscience explanation:

 

The OP is an energy source, which can be 'felt' and 'seen' by those who use it.  When someone embraces the OP, they tap into a new part of the brain which can store and manipulate the OP.  It might be because I study electrical engineering, but I think of sa'angreal, angreal, and ter'angreal as similar to circuitry, except on a microscopic level.  They use the OP instead of electricity, of course.

 

Ter'angreal replicate flows.  This is to say, they use to OP to do something that a person wielding the OP could do.  Some need to be activated by the OP, some are 'always on', some need some other form of activation, like sitting in that 'virtual reality chair' used by the BA hunters, or walking through the snake/foxes doorways.  Whatever it is, the activation causes the ter'angreal to weave flows of its own.  At this point it is replicating what its creator did.  The person who creates the ter'angreal must know two things: how to weave the flows for what they want done, and how to translate those flows into something that can be 'imprinted' in the raw material.

 

The translation of real weaves to an 'imprint' is like designing a circuit for a specific task.  The 'circuit elements' of a ter'angreal are unknown, but there must be a means of accessing and storing the OP.  Also, there must be different types of 'elements' to weave individual flows together.

 

Elayne says that the colors are important in the dream ring.  Well, color has to do with what frequencies of light are absorbed or reflected in a substance.  She also says that it has to do with 'aligning the matrix', which makes me think molecular structure.  Different structures have different bond energies, which is to say different colors.  I believe that the OP is somehow used to align the structure of the raw material in a complex pattern.  Perhaps within this pattern a structure is formed which draws the spirit to it, and another portion creates a 'closeness' to the dream world (like SG is 'close' to the bore).  When a person falls asleep, their soul is unprotected and is drawn through that closeness into the dream world.

 

So when someone creates a ter'angreal, they figure out what raw material will be suited for their task, then 'align the matrix' of that material so that the resulting structures weave the OP in the appropriate way when activated.

 

For example the leash and collar:  Turns out that silver is the material to use.  Probably has something to do with its atomic structure.  The weave has multiple parts: compulsion to not try to escape, something like the warder bond but with a stronger connection to enable the sharing and transmission of pain and feelings, plus the activation requirements of having people with the ability to use the OP put on the bracelet and necklace.  This is tuned for women, so when a man who can channel puts it on it messes with him (weaves that do the same thing are different for saidar and saidin).  The creator takes the silver and modifies its molecular structure so that the proper weaves are formed when the new ter'angreal is activated.

 

 

(and of course, angreal and sa'angreal are amplifiers, perhaps like lasers)

 

This is how I envision it, anyway, although it is definitely just a way to make sense of things and should not be taken too literally.  RJ got a degree in physics, so I like to think that he based things on real physics as much as possible, but in the end this is a fantasy book and the final answer is 'magic'.

 

[Hybrid]

Well, part of the problem is the fact that Elayne is no expert in the field.  She seems to me to have just stumbled over it and is basically running blind.  She has no real knowledge of what does what, so she experiments and draws conclusions.  She is hardly a research expert, so we can't expect her to provide a paper of the subject.  I doubt she can even describe really what she does.  It seems to be more instinctual, just as Aviendha's identification of ter'angreal.  Hence the lack of detail and explanation.

[balefireruinssteaks]

there are a couple of other references in the BWB.  When the Choedan Kal's access keys are being made they have to be created somewhere away from the original sa'angreal because of "resonating" something-or-rathers.  And Elayne mentions "aligning the matrix" as stated before.

 

It seems to me that with a'dam, they work as a sort of forced linking.  I'm not sure if the same things can be done with an actual circle of linked channelers, but we know that once inside a link the channeler cannot sever the link until the person controlling the circle releases the Source or lets the link dissolve.  In the same way, a sul'dam controls whether or not a damane can or cannot touch the One Power.  I think the a'dam works in this fashion, creating a link between the sul'dam (who can channel) and the damane (who can channel) with the sul'dam in complete control.  It seems like the Warder bond, but we see when the women are using the Bowl of Winds and anytime someone links with another person that they are aware of the other person in a simliar way with bonding.

 

With the ter'angreal access keys, I think the object was created precisely.  It had to create a link to the original sa'angreal, and then act as a conduit to safely allow the channeler to handle that much of the One Power.  So there needed to be an "alignment" of some sort between the keys and the sa'angreal, and then there was obviously something between the two that could "resonate" which also happened when Egwene's ter'angreal came close to the Testing ter'angreal during her Accepted tests.  The resonations nearly destroyed her.

 

Anyway, just rambling.

[Ndshacker]

I didnt know RJ had a degree in physics... Anyway if the electricity theory is to be believe, then s'angreal/angreal are sort of like transformers, it takes  numerous flows of the power draws them into itself, then it lets out as a single input, it is protected through the buffer, which is because the one power enters as numerous flows, each equal to the amount they would be channeling without the 'greal.

 

 

Cuendillar is sort of like a battery, it absorbs the onepower, and stores it in its molecular bonds. IF the DO can draw it out somehow it must have an input and output. MAnkind just hasn't found the output yet.

[GrandpaG]

In my mind I see what Elayne does as being similar to "tracing" or "copying".

 

A true artist uses talent to create a work of art.  Some people who are not artists are very good at "tracing" that art or "copying" that art.

 

Elayne does not "create" new and exciting terangreal...she observes existing ones and is somehow able to see how they were made originally.  She then "copies" that pattern onto her terangreal.  Just as copied art, be it ever so well done, never truly matches the original in every way, likewise Elayne's "very good reproductions" are not 100% as good as the terangreal she copied.  Perhaps, after her kids are born, she'll have time to create some "cell phone" terangreal for the Light to use at TG?  ;D