The Horn of Valere

[Mysterious]

It is also quite possible that the Horn came from a different world or a different reality altogether. We do know that other realities exist and that Randlanders during the AoL traveled to these realities.

 

 

 

Mysterious

[dubz]

Hawking and Lews Therin have answered the call countless times but not as Hawking and Lews Therin.  It was the soul that is tied to the horn that answered the call countless times.  It was Hawking that that particular soul was last used as so that is why he appeared as Hawking.

 

Also, it was mentioned that the horn was lost during the AOL but it had to have been found because how else could they have put it in the eye of the world.

 

Also, I was wondering, if Hawking recognized the soul tied to the wheel as Lews Therin then it makes sense that the horn was used after Lews Therin died...right or else how could he have used the name Lews Therin. Then if this is true then the horn was not locked in the eye of the world during the AOL because it would have been used after in order for Lews Therin to appear.  Unless,... i dont know anymore...help

[Avery]

Also, I was wondering, if Hawking recognized the soul tied to the wheel as Lews Therin then it makes sense that the horn was used after Lews Therin died...right or else how could he have used the name Lews Therin.

 

Lews Therin's and Hawkwing's soul were both in the Dream World for overlapping periods, likely that's how he recognizes him. Since they use the appearance/name of their previous embodiment, Hawkwing refers to him as Lews Therin from their time in the Dream World.

 

Then if this is true then the horn was not locked in the eye of the world during the AOL because it would have been used after in order for Lews Therin to appear.

 

Wasn't the Eye of the World made during the Breaking? If so, then indeed the Horn was not locked within the Eye during the AOL, since there was no Eye during the AOL.

[RAND AL THOR]

The Eye of the World was created during the Breaking. The first time it was used since the AOL was in Book 2. ie. The Dragon was never called out by the Horn as Lews Therin (assuming each incarnation of the dragon uses a different name each time).

 

 

[Darth_Andrea]

It's the 3rd age because they only have 2 previous ages of history that they can account for. It would be like The Romans counting history as far back as they could they couldn't go that far back. For them writen history would have only gone back a couple of thousand years including Egyptian history if they could have read the hirogliphics (sp!).

 

Such is the same for those who live in Rand's time. They only have a few thousand years of history they can account for and for the rest they are just guessing. They don't know how long the 1st age laster or even how long the Age Of Legends lasted. They only have specific historys from the building of Tear and most of that was fragmented durring the war of the hundred years. So over all them calling Rands time the 3rd age is only a guess based on the fragments of history that survived.

 

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]    

 

[Luckers]

I always wondered how if Hawkwing states he and Lews Therrin have answered the call of the Horn countless times, with some following the Dragon banner and some not, and the Horn and banner have been hidden the whole third age, then how could thie above timeline of only 3 ages be correct.

 

The Horn is older than the First Age.

 

Firstly, Hawkwing says that he has fought with Rand many times, and fought against him just as many. This likely refers to actual lives, and not functions with the Horn.

 

Secondly, we do not know the Horn to be older than the First Age--it likely existed during previous turnings of the Wheel, but nothing we have sustains that existed accross the turning of the wheel from the seventh age back to the first.

 

 

[Majsju]

The closest think we get when it comes to putting an age to the Horn is this quote from RJ

The Horn of Valere was known in the Age of Legends, though it was an artifact of an earlier age, but it was never used in the Age of Legends

(from Question of the Week)

 

Of course this could mean an Age previous to the First, but I would not bet on it.

[Alderthal]

Hmm, I'm not brushed up on the 'science' behind WoT's timeline, but if I remember the bobs and bits that spoke of it, I think it goes roughly like this:-

 

Each age has seen the DO or something like him being broken lose, and then locked up again. The time that follows the locking up is considered an age of happiness for mankind, with them slowly forgetting all about the DO and the Bore. Then comes the use of the Bore again, at which the DO is released again, followed by periods of strife.

 

This was why Ba'alzamon spoke to Rand about destroying the wheel and killing the serpent, so that his master can stop the turning of the wheel and thus twist the world into something he wants. It also explains how Ba'alzamon and Rand have fought countless times over the ages.

 

This was also explained by the philosopher in the library to Rand and Min (I don't remember his name sadly).

 

As to the original question, at no point is it mentioned that the Horn of Valere was made at any one time. All we know for sure, is that the horn would be found come Tarmon Gaidon. And that it summons heroes whose souls are bound to the wheel. The shape they take is different for each age, as well as their names, but they are the same heroes (so for example, Artur Hawking would be Alexander the Great in our time, and Brigitte maybe Robin Hood? :P).

[Hybrid]

The only condition is that no hero can change gender between reincarnations.  So no female Dragon, no male Birgitte, etc.  I believe this was confirmed by RJ in an interview. 

[Luckers]

I do not recall ever having seen that, but i wouldn't be surprised.

[Hybrid]

I was reading through Thus Spake the Creator, and there were multiple people referring to this.  Thus Spake the Creator is mostly without references, but it had a long section on the topic of reincarnations.  I guess "female Dragon" was a popular idea at one point.

[Luckers]

Mmm, that would explain it. I usually avoid Thus Spake the Creator because it is so unsourced, as you say, but i see no reason not to trust it when it makes sense with the evidence in the texts.

[Mr Ares]

Didn't Ishy make reference to hundreds if not thousands of showdowns between the creator's champion and the DO's champion in the prologue to EOW.

Ishamael is a lying liar who lies.

I believe in the EOW and TGH there are many references to the horn's ability to call the 100 companions?

The Hundred Companions are the group of male Aes Sedai who took part in the strike at Shayol Ghul and the sealing of the Bore. The Horn doesn't call them. Therefore there are no references. The Horn calls the Heroes of the Horn.

[ROB_88]

quite old topic but i don't wanna start a whole new topic for this.

 

what is the connection between the Horn and Illian?

i know that the hunt was called out in Illian, but i do not understand why Illian of all places are the only ones who get that Privilege?

 

even Moiraine thinks that it should be escorted to Illian when it is found. there must be some historic connection other than just Illian got the idea first.

[mb]

This page talks about the Horn::

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/horn_of_valere.html

 

About what Moiraine thought, I think she changed her mind when she discovered that it was sounded.

According to the above link, Perrin recalls that Moiraine had the Horn taken to the White Tower.

 

[ROB_88]

yes, i know that. but that says absoulutely nothing about the Illian connection

 

check it before you just link it

[mb]

yes, i know that. but that says absoulutely nothing about the Illian connection

 

I did not claim that it told about the Illian connection; I posted it mainly for the original poster.

 

In case you have not read, I added some comments after posting.

 

[Luckers]

The Illian connection seems to be completely cultural--something thats built up over time, like how young men from the Borderlands would seek the Eye of the World. It just became a part of their culture, and as a result of three thousand years with that culture, it became part of the public mindset.

 

Nothing directly links Illian and the Horn in prophecy as far as we know.

[ROB_88]

I did not claim that it told about the Illian connection; I posted it mainly for the original poster.

 

In case you have not read, I added some comments after posting.

 

well, you edited that in way after my last comment so yoy can't really expect me to see it before.

 

The Illian connection seems to be completely cultural--something thats built up over time, like how young men from the Borderlands would seek the Eye of the World. It just became a part of their culture, and as a result of three thousand years with that culture, it became part of the public mindset.

 

Nothing directly links Illian and the Horn in prophecy as far as we know.

 

that's what i thought, to me it just seems completely random

[cloglord]

However there is a prophecy of the Horn as per page 65 TGH (paperback)  that we don't know much about.

 

Additionally at the end of TEotW, moments after discovering that she had the horn in her possession Moraine makes the flat out assertion that the horn "must" be taken to Illian.  That is an assertion that I don't see her making without more than cultural connections over the course of the last 1000 years, (which is all the longer that Illian has been around, not 3000.)

[Luckers]

Yes, I know you don't, but Moiraine is subject to the same cultural beliefs as anyone else born in the westlands.

[Majsju]

We do see a good part of Moiraines reasoning behind wanting to take the Horn to Illian, it is a political move based on the cultural "connection".

 

Where this "connection" comes from, it could be pretty much anything, as cultural beliefs not always follow what most people sees as basic logic. It could be something as simple as a king in Illian getting jealous that their traditional rival Tear has their Stone and Callandor, and thus a place in the prophecies, and decides to counter that by attempting to hunt down the Horn and bring it to Illian. Kings are often that petty and foolish.

[Shard]

So where is the Horn now? I had always thought that it was in the Tower until reading recent theories saying that Verin had never given it over and had it stored away somewhere and is now going after it.

[Majsju]

The Horn is in the Tower.

[Shard]

I should be more specific, does Eladia know it's in the Tower?