An opinion on Nynaeve

[42Bonzo88]

    There is really no facts that will support this, I was just curious of your opinion. I am reading the Fires of Heaven and have got to the part where Nynaeve and Egwene are in the dream world in the tower and how Egwene basically rips Nynaeve up one side and down the other.

 

    I wonder how she got to be Wisdom in the Two Rivers in the first place. She is a whiny brat that has to always have her own way whether its right or wrong. She bullies people instead of talking calmly and getting her point across without offending.

 

    So my question. Was Nynaeve the Wisdom because of her (unknowingly) healing with the power? Was there no one else that could do it?

 

    Your opinions please.

[Majsju]

::)

 

It really never ends...

[Vemynal]

like the song, eh maj?

[Lemno]

That is like asking why Perrin became a blacksmith and matt/rand a farmer.... People choose the jobs they find fun/are born into.

 

Nyneave is just a caregiver, her personality doesn't matter anything, it's not like every doctor in our world is a Ghandi?

[Guest Dreadlord]

Nynaeve was made Wisdom, in my opinion, BECAUSE she is so stubborn that she could make anyone in Emonds Field do what she says. Her knowledge of herbs and such would have helped although I suppose the majority of that knowledge wold have been passed on to her while being taught by her predecessor.

 

All the stubbornness, bullying, and losing her temper may have been there already but I think they were greatly exaggerated by her being Wisdom so young. Of all the stubborn, sexist women in the books, Nynaeve is the only one who actually has a reason for being like that beyond being a woman, and so Nynaeve doesnt annoy me at all for being like that. She is funny for it, but not in an annoying or too-comical way.

[Luckers]

Nynaeve became wisdom so young because the previous wisdom died. She was chosen by Mistress Barran to train, but i doubt anyone expected a woman in her fifties to die so soon. Nynaeve probably shouldn't have become wisdom till she was in her mid-thirties, instead Mistress Barran died, and because Nynaeve was so effective a healer there was not much push against her becoming Wisdom.

 

Gaining that power so young is likely what made her into the bully she was--inexperienced, yet suddenly expected to help guide the villiage, its unsurprising that she tried to throw her weight around--she probably thought it was expected.

 

Her arc is one of my favourites--i really empathise with her, trying so hard to do whats right and protect her people, yet little more than a child herself. She's often foolish, but she grows. I really like what she is becoming.

[runner1]

I like Nynaeve.

Like someone else said, I'm not annoyed by her personality I find it really funny to see her bluster and get in a temper.

I'm in the middle of re-reading A Crown of Swords and her sulking and refusal to want to apologize to Mat was just amusing to read.

I don't know why her prickly personality and her sexist and stubborn behavior doesn't get on my nerves like the other women characters in the book.

 

 

[Dakeyras]

Ever since the Bowl of the Winds arc i've loved Nynaeve. When Setalle Anan drags her and Elayne off to see the Kin. Elayne threatens to slap Nynaeve silly if it's a waste of time and Nynaeve thinks Elayne's becoming far too violent and needs a good kicking. That sums up Nynaeve perfectly to me.

 

 

[42Bonzo88]

    Thank you for your opinions, I have also grown to love Nynaeve and have sometimes defended her on some of the other threads, but just reading that part made it so fresh in my mind. I agree that she had to grow up early and didn't have a mother figure to trim off the edges, so to speak, but she was upset because Egwene was acting so much more mature than she was and couldn't accept it.

 

    I guess it was brought out in the part I read and the other parts mentioned, so blatantly I had to bring the question up again. Thanks again for your opinions. By the way, marrying Lan was the best thing to happen to her in my opinion. :)

[Dakeyras]

she was upset because Egwene was acting so much more mature than she was and couldn't accept it.

 

I've always seen that scene as a character flaw, for lack of a better word, on Egwenes part.

 

It's been a while since I last read it but wasn't Egwene going into T'A'R alone, against the wise ones wishes, Nynaeve came close to either figuring it out or letting slip to a wise one so Egwene needed to distract Nynaeve and decided to rant at her? Not entirely mature. It's similar to when she rants at Rand at the beginning of TFoH because she lets slip it was Moiraine who air-caned him.

 

Although Nynaeves distress at almost having that medicine forced on her was a good read.

[42Bonzo88]

    It's true that Egwene was dreaming against the wise one's wishes, but when Nynaeve was talking to both Egwene and Melanie, Melanie was telling Nynaeve the dangers of the Dream world and Nynaeve acted as though they didn't apply to her. So when Egwene found her in the Tower, she needed to prove to Nynaeve how dangerous the dream world is. Then when Nynaeve was trying to make Egwene shout and give Nynaeve the upper hand, Egwene didn't and Nynaeve then told about the lie with Forkroot and Egwene put it back in her face with the "concoction" that Nynaeve had used on Egwene when she lied.

 

  Egwene wasn't supposed to be there, but in the whole scheme, Egwene acted more mature than Nynaeve and instead of trying what Egwene was doing, Nynaeve just denied it to herself.

[DemandredFO]

That whole episode was necessary for Nyneave's development but the reason Egwene chose that time was wrong.  That is one of the reasons I hate Egwene.  I don't think I ever hated Nyneave, I think I found her annoying when I listened to the earlier books for the first time.  Now I just find her tantrums amusing and sometimes hilarious.  Like the episode Dakeyras mentioned.

[Majsju]

A showdown between the two was necessary, to shift the balance between them. Egwene not only standing up to Nynaeve, but also putting Nynaeve in her place serves to move Nynaeve away from seeing herself as the Wisdom, and start seeing herself as Aes Sedai.

[42Bonzo88]

   I don't quite agree with you on the Timing with Egwene. Yes, Egwene was wrong in doing what she was, but she had to make Nynaeve see how dangerous the dream world is. Nynaeve was 'hoping' Moghedien wasn't in the dream world and 'hoping' that she would be mad enough to channel and 'hoping'...

 

   She (Nynaeve) wasn't trying to learn about the place she was in, so she could run away or defend herself because she didn't truly believe how dangerous it actually is. Egwene showed her that. Asking Birgitte to look for Moggy was one of the worst things Nyn could have done with Moggy so powerful in the dream world. So, to basically save Nynaeve's life, I think Egwene, or someone, needed to do that to Nynaeve.

[runner1]

I could see how Egwene had to put Nynaeve in her place.  I think it was also a glimpse into what Egwene would eventually become, you know the rebel Amrylin Seat.

But I agree with what someone else stated, character flaw, Egwene was a hypocrite for scolding Nynaeve.

Also, I really got tired of her always thinking how arrogant Rand was all the while she is saying to herself that she knows better and can guide him, how arrogant is that?

Oh well she is becoming more Aes Sedai and so her personality change makes sense in a way, as the Aes Sedai are all arrogant women.LOL. 

Egwene is not one of my favorite characters in the series (if you couldn't tell already.heh).

[Cabriana]

I think Nynave has always been a bit of a bully with the temper to match. Where was it that she thinks about the time she was 16 and got into a fight with another girl. Didn't Ny throw a bucket of water on her and the girl came back swinging?

 

If Ny hadn't been made Wisdom so young, she would have had to temper herself. But since she was Wisdom, people showed has respect and accepted behavior from her that they wouldn't have had she still been an apprentice.

 

But she's grown and matured as the books go on.

 

As far as people hating Egwene, I've always liked her. The woman in these books can be annoying she's by far from the worst in my opinion. That scene with her and Ny, I've always found it hilarious. Here's Nynaeve completely thrown off balance from her former apprentice, and gains a new found respect for Egwene as a woman. Only for us to find out that Egwene is still a child in many ways and was simply trying to not get caught doing something she wasn't supposed to be doing. Hysterical!

[benr]

    By the way, marrying Lan was the best thing to happen to her in my opinion. :)

 

Hers, too!

[Spirit1025]

Well, this has wandered a bit from the original question, but...

 

Nynaeve would have been chosen to apprentice as Wisdom because she was interested in it, and also because she could channel, though nobody knew that's what it was. Wisdoms were expected to be able to Listen to the Wind, or whatever it's called. Which is channeling. Those who can't actually do it pretend they can. Nynaeve obviously could, and the previous Wisdom would have recognized that. So Nynaeve might not have had much choice.

 

I never thought about her becoming a bully as a result of becoming Wisdom so young. I always just assumed it was who she was. I wouldn't doubt it's some combination thereof. She already had a very opinionated and dominant personality, and was put into a position where that personality was allowed to thrive.

 

I do find her amusing when she's angry.

 

I loved Egwene when the series first started, but I don't like her as much now. She's gotten as hard and scheming as any Aes Sedai. (I don't like the Aes Sedai for that either, but I think that's the effect Jordan wanted...)Aes Sedai are too much like politicians for my personal taste lol. I kind of miss the sweet, innocent Egwene from back in the beginning. But she's had to change to adapt to her position in life, because the innkeeper's daughter from Emond's field would not survive a day in her present circumstances.

 

I'm on a re-read, and it's interesting to watch the characters change and grow as the books progress. Nynaeve, Egwene, and Rand are probably some of the most interesting to watch.

[Hybrid]

I agree with most of the opinions stated.  I don't mind Nynaeve's bossiness because she is in a position of power.  Plus, she has really matured through the series.  Also, the scene where she lost her block was pretty cool (scratch one more mark onto "ways the Forsaken have messed up").

 

My opinion of Egwene is opposite of Spirit's.  I hated her at the start of the series, because she tried to act bossy without any knowledge of anything.  As the Amyrlin Seat, I've started to like her a little more because she's come up against people even worse than she is.  The scene with her and Rand will be interesting.

[Luckers]

Mmm. I agree--and i think RJ was right to do it with both of them. I don't think people can become that sort of character--strong willed, capable--a leader--without being an insufferable retard when they were younger. And both Nynaeve and Egwene had elements of that--though between the two i liked Nynaeve better, she was at least trying to do what she thought was right. Egwene was just throwing her weight around for the point of it.

 

But both have been tempered by events, and i think both are turning into pretty cool adults. Nynaeve i suspect is growing to be a new Cadsuane, and Egwene will be an Amyrlin to be reckoned with--strong, yet not blindly arrogant, her on rise to power ripped that away.

[Fryn]

Had that encounter happened outside the dream world where Egwene has less control comparitively, I wonder what would of happened. At that point in the story the only thing Egwene had over Nyv was control in the dream world.

 

Really though what ruins Egwene for me is how she immediately thinks of how she needs to lead and make Rand do what she wants. It doesn't happen when Rand thinks Egwene can no longer be trusted, but it does happen later, and its probably a good thing that Rand doesn't completely trust her.

[deathgate]

I believe that Nynaeve had that personality because she needed to be angry to channel and heal people. It just overcame her and she was in a ticked off mood all the time in case she needed to heal someone. Everything could hurt someone and it made her mad especially if they were doing something that she thought might injure them. When she was drowning in Ebou Dar she surrendered for the first time in her life to saidar and gradually that episode and her marriage changed her as she no longer had to be angry to do what needed to be done.

[balefireruinssteaks]

We also have to remember that what we see of Nynaeve's temper tantrums is comical, but there is a lot more to Nynaeve than just her outbursts of anger.  There are other Aes Sedai who have quick fire tempers, i.e. Alanna.

 

Aviendha says of Nynaeve "she is brave to the point of madness sometimes" and Aviendha is Aiel, so that is a statement and a half, indeed.  Also, the whiny annoying Wisdom bested a Forsaken twice and helped kill Rhavin.  I think when the chips are down, Nynaeve was a logical (if young) choice for Wisdom because there is a depth to her and a "wisdom" to her.  Even Galad says "I remember you typically see more than you let on" so I think that in the end, Nynaeve al'Meara is much more than just a whiny character.  I like her a lot.

[CatinaSedai]

nynaeve is my favorite character.  she reminds me of me in many ways lol.  i think you are right about her being made wisdom partly because of her powers.  but also because she is a strong willed woman and can stand up to the likes of the congars and such.  would you tell nynaeve that she cant be the wisdom?

[Ritsar]

Nynaeve isn't my favorite charactor but she did provide one of my most favorite scenes.

 

When she is helping Lan, "My name is Nynaeve ti al'Mera Mandragoran. The message I want to send is this. My husband rides from World's End toward Tarwin's Gap, toward Tarmon Gai'don. Will he ride alone?"