Why Did Morideth Scream?

[dmanmiller34]

In the first Book when Rand and the Boys go explore Shadar Logath. Morideth ( I think that was his name) Takes the boys down into the depths of the city to a room filled with treasure. He says that they can take anything but the one thing. Then he goes to pounch on them and cuts out the lights and ends up screaming in pain. THen he is hiding in the corner away from them before fleeing into a crack in the wall. Why did he scream? What hurt him? Rand didn't channel. Is it because Mat picked up the dagger? IF so Why would it pain him?

[Luckers]

My guess--Rand. Either the nature of his soul to that of a disembodied soul, or Mordeth sensed his reaching for saidin. He did not channel, yet Mordeth's reaction to learning they are with an Aes Sedai shows he has some innate fear of channelers. Perhaps that was all that was nessasary to hurt him--indeed, the ability to channel is a soul based ability, so it makes sense that it would be something that could influence an errant soul.

 

 

[trakand_01]

Was it Fain already, at that point? I must admit I'm a little confused by the whole Mordeth/Fain thing...

[Majsju]

Was it Fain already, at that point? I must admit I'm a little confused by the whole Mordeth/Fain thing...

 

No, Fain followed them to SL, which means he met Mordeth after this.

[trakand_01]

So who was Mordeth originally? Did they do a Luc/Isam thing?

[bRANDan]

My guess is that Mordeth is a gholam's soul, but I'll explain more on that later as I'm crunched for time. Who or whatever he is/was I doubt that he is anything like the Luc/isam combo. But, IMO, Mordeth has had some previous experience with either the DO or the DO's minions, due to the fact that one of the Forsaken refers to him as 'an old thing, an old friend, an old enemy'. The Forsaken, I forget whom, is talking about Mordeth, not Mashadar, so that rules out the possibility that that quote had anything to do with the Trollocs and Myrdraal that were killed in Shadar Logoth.

 

The boys at the time they met Mordeth still had Moiraine's coins, and the weave Moiraine put on the coins could have been what drove Mordeth to scream. The weave she placed on the coins was some form of a bond weave, as the effects of it parallel a Warder bond, it could have been Moiraine's bond that caused Mordeth to create his Illusion.

[Majsju]

My guess is that Mordeth is a gholam's soul,

 

Well, that is quite a guess, based on pretty much nothing. I am quite looking forward to see how you motivate this.

[DemandredFO]

You need to do a re-read if you don't who mordeth is bRANDan and Trakand.  It tells you exactly who he was and as for what he was my guess is he was on of Ishamael's mistakes.  I base this on the fact that unless the evil that took the suspicion and birthed Mashadar was there in AoL and no one detected it, something more must have been involved.

[Mr Ares]

So who was Mordeth originally? Did they do a Luc/Isam thing?

He came to Aridhol as an advisor. He corrupted the city with his "the victory of the Light is all", then it turned on itself. He was the last person left. His soul was left to wander the city without a body while the other souls formed Mashadar. He joined with Fain, but was unable to take him over because of what the Shadow had done to him. Fain is now neither one nor the other, but something of both and mad as a hatter to boot. This is different to Slayer in that Luc and Isam maintain distinct personalities, and Slayer is only one at any given time.

[trakand_01]

Thank you! That's a very helpful answer  :)

[42Bonzo88]

    With Moirainne knowing that the consequences of what would happen to you if you did this or that in Shardar Logoth, sounds to me like Mordeth is either a combination of the other people that was caught or the last one that was caught. Mashadar, I believe, is all of the souls of Aridhol, that betrayed Manetheren.

 

Considering all that we have found out through the books of the Aes Sedai's lack of knowledge would mean that they would have to have some proof (almost first hand witnessing) to know the "rules" of SL. Or maybe some Brown sister had found writings on the subject either there or somewhere that the proof was written down.

 

[Luckers]

No, Mordeth was a man--a single soul. We've seen opinions he held seep out in Fain.

 

Incidently it seems to me to be very likely that Machin Shin is an amalgamation of the souls its consumed. The thousand whispering voices.

[DemandredFO]

Could Mordeth have screamed because that was the moment Ishamael forced the trollocs to enter Shadar logoth?  Another question, what were Mordeth's unnatural assassins that he sent after Al-car?(from EOTW)

[Sabio]

I always took his scream was that he is a bit looney and felt the boys had lied to him when they said they were alone.  Once he found out they were with an Aes Sedai he freaked out.

[Hybrid]

The interesting timing here is that right after Mordeth disappears through the crack in the wall, Rand looks over at Mat and sees him holding the ruby dagger.  Possibly Mat took a slash at him with the dagger, or even the act of picking up the dagger caused Mordeth to scream.

[Roxinos]

I always took his scream was that he is a bit looney and felt the boys had lied to him when they said they were alone.  Once he found out they were with an Aes Sedai he freaked out.

 

That's what I always assumed, as well.

[Hybrid]

I always took his scream was that he is a bit looney and felt the boys had lied to him when they said they were alone.  Once he found out they were with an Aes Sedai he freaked out.

 

That's what I always assumed, as well.

 

I have to disagree here.  Mordeth is unsettled when he finds out that the boys are going to Tar Valon, but that's not when he screams.  He is visibly unsettled, but he tells them to take what they want and adds except, but doesn't finish the thought.  Rand notices his lack of a shadow, and Mordeth does his balloon-man impression.  He's in the middle of threatening them when he screams, and this is when Rand notices Mat has the dagger.

[Sabio]

Well no way to be 100% sure, but consdiering the dagger is tainted I don't think his scream was becuase of Mat grabbing the dagger.  He felt lied to and was discovered so freaked out.

[Hybrid]

Well no way to be 100% sure, but consdiering the dagger is tainted I don't think his scream was becuase of Mat grabbing the dagger.  He felt lied to and was discovered so freaked out.

 

Good point.  That's the only thing with my idea, the dagger doesn't hurt the Fain/Mordeth hybrid in the least.  I just don't buy that it was because they were going to Tar Valon.  He got angry at first, and later, he's huddling in the corner after he screams.

[Sabio]

Didn't Fain act that ways in Shinear, whimpering and cowardly then sort of defiant? 

[Hybrid]

Didn't Fain act that ways towards Shinear, whimpering and cowardly then sort of defiant? 

 

At that point, Fain was still in the Fain/Mordeth struggle.  He was whining about being free of Ishamael's influence as Fain and defiant and commanding as Mordeth.  He kept switching between the personalities.