Mat Prophs....

[Lord Nik]

i wonder what else changed besides mat avi and asmo coming back to life... i mean all those men rhavin sent out to defend the city never got the order. alot more chaos because leadership was down before the attack happened. was somone giving the forsaken a report when he just dissapeared? From that the taking of the city was made a thousand times easier!

[Ndshacker]

Just a quick question, if saidin and saidar are an infinty, then the taint covering saidin must be an infinty, so there fore rand should have been caught in an infinte task to remove the taint. Why didn't he die? Just saying.

[Mr Ares]

Just a quick question, if saidin and saidar are an infinty, then the taint covering saidin must be an infinty, so there fore rand should have been caught in an infinte task to remove the taint. Why didn't he die? Just saying.

What about the possibility of a finite surface, covered by the Taint, but infinite depth? In which case you could have infiite Source but finite Taint.

[Asmo]

Uh, guys, Balefire doesn't "rewrite" anything. It just erases a person and his actions from the Pattern. The only things that change were those things that the actions erased were directly responsible for. And they aren't changed. They are erased. If you get hit by a shovel and then the one who hit you is Balefired, you would not feel the pain or anything, but if picking up the shovel to hit you had caused a bee to fly in a specific direction instead of another one, the bee's wouldn't suddenly find itself elsewhere. The actions change, not the consequences.

[Fryn]

Well as you read the books there are a few sections that don't make sense because things don't happen that should. They only make sense once you realise that the root was balefired. A lot of actions that should of occured in the book never happened because of how much balefire rand used against Rahvin. Which makes it an interesting read, and makes you wonder, if that one balefire was a massive mistake that made things harder for the light, or if the large balefire is what let Rand take the two cities so easily.

 

To quote Morraine "You begin to see the problems, the dangers? Mat remembers seeing one of the darkhounds chew through the door, but there is no opening, now. If it had slavered on him as much as he remembers, he would of been dead before I could reach him. For as far back as you destroyed the creature, whatever it did during that time no longer happened. Only memories remain, for those who saw or experienced it. Only what it did before is real now. A few tooth holes on the door, and one drop of saliva on Mat's arm."

 

"...whatever those people had done, now no longer had been done, and niether had what others had done because of their actions..."

 

If you were to balefire Morgase heavily Elayne would never be born. People would remember Morgase, but I wonder if they would remember Elayne.

 

I tried to pinpoint just how far back the effect of balefiring rahvin as much as rand did affected the story and at what point Rahvin is actually considered dead, and I think it is a ways back, but I can't remember the exact point. I seem to recall a quote in the book somewhere that seems to reference the point though. I think it shows why most of Rahvin's "plans" he mentioned at the start of the book never occur though.

[Hybrid]

Well as you read the books there are a few sections that don't make sense because things don't happen that should. They only make sense once you realise that the root was balefired. A lot of actions that should of occured in the book never happened because of how much balefire rand used against Rahvin. Which makes it an interesting read, and makes you wonder, if that one balefire was a massive mistake that made things harder for the light, or if the large balefire is what let Rand take the two cities so easily.

 

To quote Morraine "You begin to see the problems, the dangers? Mat remembers seeing one of the darkhounds chew through the door, but there is no opening, now. If it had slavered on him as much as he remembers, he would of been dead before I could reach him. For as far back as you destroyed the creature, whatever it did during that time no longer happened. Only memories remain, for those who saw or experienced it. Only what it did before is real now. A few tooth holes on the door, and one drop of saliva on Mat's arm."

 

"...whatever those people had done, now no longer had been done, and niether had what others had done because of their actions..."

 

If you were to balefire Morgase heavily Elayne would never be born. People would remember Morgase, but I wonder if they would remember Elayne.

 

I tried to pinpoint just how far back the effect of balefiring rahvin as much as rand did affected the story and at what point Rahvin is actually considered dead, and I think it is a ways back, but I can't remember the exact point. I seem to recall a quote in the book somewhere that seems to reference the point though. I think it shows why most of Rahvin's "plans" he mentioned at the start of the book never occur though.

 

Rand balefired the Darkhounds.  That is why Mat remembers them chewing down the door.  That was not a result of him balefiring Rahvin.  Rahvin had the plan with Sammael, Lanfear, and Graendal to lure Rand to Sammael.  Part of the plan was the attack on the camp by DFs and Trollocs shouting "Sammael" and Melindhra's attack on Mat.  I am not aware of any other plans he had.

[Fryn]

Last line of the prolugue: "... he saw several ways to shape events to his advantage. This might work out very well indeed."

 

If all that happens is an echo then people would remember events happening one way when they actually occured a different way. They would still remember the DF attack, but it might not of actually happened. In which case those DF would still be alive, because they were never actually ordered to attack the camp. For that matter the dark hound pack might still be alive, even though they remember killing it. This is of course if Rand did balefire Rahvin to that degree.

 

It would also mean that Morgase ran away from Rahvin even though rahvin was never there. The memory would still be there, because Morgase lived through the event, but rahvin might of never been there in actuallity because he could of been ripped from teh pattern even before that point. Its all a matter of how far back Rahvin was pulled from the pattern.

 

I'm just trying to remember if there was anything massive rahvin did that could come back to haunt the Light in TG if it turned out it never happened, when Rand thinks it was already taken care of.

[Ndshacker]

Just a quick question, if saidin and saidar are an infinty, then the taint covering saidin must be an infinty, so there fore rand should have been caught in an infinte task to remove the taint. Why didn't he die? Just saying.

What about the possibility of a finite surface, covered by the Taint, but infinite depth? In which case you could have infiite Source but finite Taint.

 

Point taken, like his metaphor of Oil on Water?

[Mr Ares]

Well as you read the books there are a few sections that don't make sense because things don't happen that should. They only make sense once you realise that the root was balefired. A lot of actions that should of occured in the book never happened because of how much balefire rand used against Rahvin. Which makes it an interesting read, and makes you wonder, if that one balefire was a massive mistake that made things harder for the light, or if the large balefire is what let Rand take the two cities so easily.

To which events do you refer? Oh, and Rahvin's balefiring is usually thought to have taken him back a couple of hours at most.

 

Point taken, like his metaphor of Oil on Water?

Exactly.

[Ndshacker]

Another question, in the first book in the blight, they found, the green man and he had the big hole with (The essence of saidin?) When it dissapeared, what happened? I mean it mustve been there for some reason/ Other than finding a seal and a horn and a banner. How the **** did the banner of the dragon get there anyway?

[Toy and Minion]

First off, Aes Sedai (men and women) placed the items in the Eye before the Breaking, and then they sealed it with the essence of saidin, all of them dying in the process (I can't remember how many there were).  The Green Man was charged with guarding it.

 

Secondly, when Rand and Aginor fought, they fought over the saidin in the Eye.  Aginor was burnt to a crisp and Rand took what was left (a great deal).  Thus, the Eye was drained, allowing the items to be retrieved.

[Ndshacker]

Thanks, Im re-reading, i read it to quick the first time...

[Majsju]

The reason the Eye was made, other than to provide the Dragon Reborn with the Dragon banner and the Horn of Valere was to give him access to a pool of untainted Saidin, based on a Foretelling by Deindre Sedai.

[Hybrid]

During a reread, I looked at it from a different angle than before.  There are plenty of false Dragons, but most of them are men who are looking for glory and power.  No one looking for glory or power can find the Green Man's domain.  But only a male channeler can get to the Horn of Valere or the Dragon banner.  Presumably, the Dragon Reborn is not looking for glory, but only his destiny.  So he alone will be able to get the banner and the Horn.