Did Rand inherit being ta'varen?

[GrandpaG]

His real dad, the Aiel chief at a very young age bent the lives of the people around him.  His accomplishments as an Aiel diplomat sound amazing.  Could he have been ta'varen?

[trakand_01]

Possibly, I guess, but I would think it was more because the pattern needed to make it so that Shaiel would be attracted to him, and carry his child, than anything else. I dont think it's possible to inherit ta'veren-ness, it's something that the pattern imposes on you when there is need.

[Asmo]

Inherit the ta'veren status, naw. It would've been mentioned, the possibility implied, somehow. As for Rand's dad being ta'veren... well it's possible (anything is possible), but... Cadsuane already plays the world at her fingers, and so do a bunch of other people, apparently. Ta'veren does not mean you can just bend people to your will, thus making you a good diplomat - often, it works quite the opposite way of what you expect. It's about twisting chance, and nothing specific about that was mentioned about Rand's father.

[Majsju]

Noone is born ta'veren, it is something the Wheel choses people to become when there is need. In Rands case, this happened shortly before Moiraine came to Emonds Field. So it is quite impossible to inherit.

[Asmo]

Noone is born ta'veren, it is something the Wheel choses people to become when there is need. In Rands case, this happened shortly before Moiraine came to Emonds Field. So it is quite impossible to inherit.

 

What? Where was any of this stated?

[Majsju]

In the interview attached to the ebook version of Glimmers, as well as in the Blog.

[Captain General Miraj]

I always thought that Janduin was ta'varen.  Janduin ended blood fueds so that he would lead four clans across the spine. 

 

Seana a Wise One says: "He was a clan chief of the Taardad then, youngest in memory. Yet he had a way to him, a power. People listened to him, and would follow him, even those not of his clan. He ended the blood fued between Taardad and Nakai after two hundred years, and made alliance not only with the Nakai, but the Reyn, and the Reyn were not far short of blood fued. He veery nearly ended the blood fued between Shaarad and Goshien, as well, and might have had Laman not cut down the Tree. Young as he was, it was he who led the Taardad and Nakai, the Reyn and Shaarad, to seek Laman's bloodprice." p.563 TSR paperback

 

He sounds ta'varen to me.  I believe without the Aiel War Janduin would of united the clans. By ending blood fueds and making alliances Janduin made it easier for Rand to unite the clans later on.

[aussie_ashaman123]

not really, we can look at who else does the same thing. Foremost is Masema, hasnt he rounded up disperate forces and turned them into a a single people, simply with the passion and conviction of his words. Sorelia isnt a ta'veren, but she has a power about her that even the aes sedai can see.

 

There are a few people in the book that have done these sorta things. It is probably less Janduin being less a ta'veren, and more a strong, passionate, charismatic person who people will follow

[Luckers]

Well, to be fair we know that ta'veren do occur--certainly not as powerful as Rand, or even Mat and Perrin--but they do occur enough that Siuan knew what she was seeing when she saw Rand. My guess is one or two a generation, and then only to effect small areas.

 

That being said, we know that it is entirely possible to be charismatic and influence people without being ta'veren. Egwene's efforts with the Aes Sedai, Taim's efforts in gathering men who can channel despite that being hated and feared, Galad's efforts in getting the Children to be willing to stand with Rand or an Aes Sedai....

 

People do what they do, ta'verenism merely increases the effects. It might be harder for those that arn't ta'veren, but they can do it nonetheless.

 

So, Janduin may or may not have been ta'veren. But even if he was, its not genetic. Rand is ta'veren because of who he is, not who he was born to.

[Red2111]

besides, seeing as Rand's father was a Clan Ceif he would have had to go through the rings at Ruhdean.  maybe he saw a vision like Moriane did with having to drag Lanfear through the door way.  he saw that he needed to unite the Aiel people and by seeing all his lives lived through he was able to get a good hold on what needed to be said and done. 

 

remember, a clan chief and wise ones go into the rings twice. 

 

what i said is pure speculation, and until Avendah makes the second trip and we get her PoV, i can only guess.

[Jehaine]

Actually, Clan Chiefs only go once. Wise Ones go twice.

 

-----

 

The DR is an incredibly strong ta'veren. Everything that happens in the Pattern is geared to lead to the next TG. The Bore, the Tainting of Saidin, Mashadar, the Breaking, Laman's Sin, even the ending of the last TG (the DO resealed) resets the condition for a future TG. Janduin and Shaiel are just as influenced by who Rand is as Mat and Perrin are.

 

So no, i don't think Janduin was a ta'veren. That was just the Pattern's way of setting up Rand's birth on the slopes of Dragonmount, as without a (more or less) unified Aiel clans there wouldn't have been an Aiel War in the first place.

[Corbett]

The Clan Chiefs only go once and they only go to the heart, it is only the wise ones that go through the rings.

[dragonlover]

it may have been possible that Janduin could channel, he may not have started channeling before he died but could have been a late sparker, wasnt it said in one of the early books that men who could channel we lucky, maybe the uniting the clans was more luck than any thing

[GrandpaG]

Charisma is a powerful tool.  JFK wasn't ta'veren, right?  Or Hitler?

 

I just wondered if it was possible that something Rand inherited in his genes from his dad could have been a connection or just coincidence.  I still have it in the back of my mind that Gitara Sedai arranged the whole thing some how then faked her death in front of Siuan and Moraine with the Amyrlin's assistance...no proof...just idle pondering...sewing the evil seeds of suspicion (call me Mordeth, huh?).

[benr]

besides, seeing as Rand's father was a Clan Ceif he would have had to go through the rings at Ruhdean.  maybe he saw a vision like Moriane did with having to drag Lanfear through the door way.  he saw that he needed to unite the Aiel people and by seeing all his lives lived through he was able to get a good hold on what needed to be said and done. 

 

remember, a clan chief and wise ones go into the rings twice. 

 

what i said is pure speculation, and until Avendah makes the second trip and we get her PoV, i can only guess.

 

Perceptive, Red (except for the going back twice thing).  This is a very good explanation of how the Wheel was working for Rand even before he was Rand.

[Luckers]

besides, seeing as Rand's father was a Clan Ceif he would have had to go through the rings at Ruhdean.  maybe he saw a vision like Moriane did with having to drag Lanfear through the door way.  he saw that he needed to unite the Aiel people and by seeing all his lives lived through he was able to get a good hold on what needed to be said and done. 

 

remember, a clan chief and wise ones go into the rings twice. 

 

what i said is pure speculation, and until Avendah makes the second trip and we get her PoV, i can only guess.

 

Clan Chiefs do not go through the rings, they only go through the collumns. They only see the past, much as Rand did. The rings, which allow the viewer to see possible futures, are only used by the Wise Ones--and only on their first visit, on their second they go through the collumns like the Clan Chiefs.

 

it may have been possible that Janduin could channel, he may not have started channeling before he died but could have been a late sparker, wasnt it said in one of the early books that men who could channel we lucky, maybe the uniting the clans was more luck than any thing

 

They are seen to be lucky because surprising events occur arround them--a direct result of their channeling. Whether they compel people, or heal loved ones, or live through things that should have killed them, its all because unintentionally they are channeling in order to aid themselves.

 

Uniting the clans would not really be something a channeler could channel into existence. Perhaps with compulsion--but that would need to be delicate and intelligently done, which doesn't make sense with Janduin--if he knew he could channel he would have gone north to kill the Dark One.