Some forsakens have no sense at all..

[Darian]

Some of the forsakens are really foolish it seems, Lanfear could have easily used compulsion on Rand so she could get that ter'angreal, but her "passionate" love for him blocked out her sense; Graendal is hiding, Mohedien is just shameful, and the worst of all was probably (my favorite forsaken) Semirhage.  Her capture was just plain stupid...the forsaken really has no plannings...was there something else they could have done?  but i think the pattern itself works against them....

[JenLenaMom]

Probably what works against them more is the fact that they look down on everyone from this age.  It never dawns on any of them that someone might have enough sense or power to resist them.  How many times do they say something to the effect "Well, I know that half trained girl managed to kill Belal but I'm better than him and so is my plan."  They are full of conceit and the greatness of the Dark One.  They are human after all and each flawed like everyone else, the main problem is that they just don't see it.

[Darian]

Probably what works against them more is the fact that they look down on everyone from this age.  It never dawns on any of them that someone might have enough sense or power to resist them.  How many times do they say something to the effect "Well, I know that half trained girl managed to kill Belal but I'm better than him and so is my plan."  They are full of conceit and the greatness of the Dark One.  They are human after all and each flawed like everyone else, the main problem is that they just don't see it.

yup! thats one i missed! (passions blinds the eye!)  i still think that the dark one shouldn't have limited his dark enery to Ishamel...it could have really saved some of the forsakens in dire need. :-\

[Majsju]

Lanfear could not have Compelled rand, since Compulson does not work on a man when he is holding Saidin.

Graendal keeping her whereabouts a secret is probably one of the smartest thing any of the forsaken have done so far, considering what has happened to every single one of them who allowed Rand to learn where they were. She can operate safely without having to worry about Rand and a bunch of Asha'man come knocking on her door.

Semirhage...Not such a bad plan as it may seem. She just did not expect Cadsuanes hairthingys, and that is quite understandable.

Moghedien...I give you that one, she is just sad.

[Jelly]

Lanfear once shielded Rand, didn't she? She could have compelled him then. The only reason she didn't could only be that she really did love him.

Mogheiden had a good plan...hide in the shadows, be out of danger. Just because she's evil doesn't mean she has to be incredibly brave.  ;)

[RobertAlexWillis]

The Forsaken are, by and large, far less effective than they could (and probably should) have been.

 

The ones who have not been totally incompetent, to my mind, are Demandred and Graendal.  These two have been head and shoulders above the others, if for no other reason than that they managed to stay hidden while working, and away from Rand.

 

Ishamael/Moridin and Semirhage are next.  These two have been mostly effective.  I agree with Maj's point about Semirhage's trap ... and she was very effective in Seanchan.  I don't think we know enough of what Moridin actually plans to know for sure how well he is doing ... I suspect he's doing better than we think.  And for those who say "Yeah, but dude, he got KILLED," I would say, "Yeah, but he probably knew he was coming back ... so thats less of a screw up in him than it is in anyone else."

 

Lanfear, Mesaana, Sammael, Rahvin, Balthamel/Aran'gar.  Effective sometimes, very dissapointing at others, these at least have required some planning or a greater power to beat.

 

Asmodean, Aginor/Osan'gar, Moghedien, Be'lal.  Very disappointing.

[Shaidar]

I agree with RAW's take on this.

 

Ishamael was too crazy to be effective before his death.

 

In fact I totally don't understand his tactics. He wants Rand to voluntarily go over to the Shadow. Wouldn't it have been a much wiser idea to appear in his dreams; describe how the Shadow is really all good and fluffy but has bad PR directed against it; explain this over a cup of tea in his dreams.

 

That would work quite a lot better than sending a horde of Trollocs who burn down his village, nearly kill his father and a Fade who really freaks him out.

 

We don't really know what Demandred is up to. As for Graendal, she's had pretty limited effects which have only adversely affected Arad Doman. Still, they're the best.

 

I think Mesaana might get into that list, too. Her dereliction at the Shadar Logoth only hurt herself, while Arangar's loss of control over Egwene was not her fault. On the other hand, she's certainly stirred up a great deal of chaos by splitting the Tower and possibly influencing the Tower AS to capturing Rand, which affirmed his mistrust to AS as a group even further.

 

I wouldn't say Asmodean was disappointing, considering his weakness (in the OP and Forsaken status). He seized his best chance when it presented itself to him. He'd have succeeded, too, if Lanfear hadn't betrayed his plans.

[Tyrell]

As for Graendal, she's had pretty limited effects which have only adversely affected Arad Doman.

 

Graendal may have destroyed Shara with a single kidnapping.

[Cybertrolloc]

Lanfear, Mesaana, Sammael, Rahvin, Balthamel/Aran'gar.  Effective sometimes, very dissapointing at others, these at least have required some planning or a greater power to beat.

I'll take issue with Sammael, he belongs in the top tier. I'm pretty sure he's made missteps along the way, and holding a visible position = not so smart. Nearly every shadow scheme post-tDR until his death involved him in some way (though excepting one of the most important which is Rand's kidnapping), and he certainly tied up Rand's forces for a long time that they could have been doing something more useful.

[wvlr]

Some of the forsakens are really foolish it seems, Lanfear could have easily used compulsion on Rand so she could get that ter'angreal, but her "passionate" love for him blocked out her sense; Graendal is hiding, Mohedien is just shameful, and the worst of all was probably (my favorite forsaken) Semirhage.  Her capture was just plain stupid...the forsaken really has no plannings...was there something else they could have done?  but i think the pattern itself works against them....

 

Considering that their Boss is the DO and every time that they go to visit him - they get a visual and aromatic sample of what it would be like to live in his world - I would say that your leading statement that the "forsakens have no sense at all." is 100% correct.

 

The Worst place in the Creators world would be much better than any place in the DOs world.

[Tyrell]

The point is that they don't care, they will get to rule, so they believe.

 

Although afaik the DO's world will be a non-existant one, he plans to destroy the pattern, kill time and so fourth, not that anyone except Ishamael is privy to this information.

[wvlr]

The point is that they don't care, they will get to rule, so they believe.

 

Although afaik the DO's world will be a non-existant one, he plans to destroy the pattern, kill time and so fourth, not that anyone except Ishamael is privy to this information.

 

What!    The DO is Lying to them!      Who would have EVER Guessed!

 

 

Yes that as well!

[RobertAlexWillis]

My beef with Mesaana and Sammael (the reason I didn't put them in the Ishamael/Semirhage tier) is that they indulged in the common Forsaken pastime of underestimating modern players.  Sammael underestimated Rand (by making himself visible, the trap in Shadar Logoth was tactically sound, if Moridin hadn't showed up Rand would have been screwed), and Mesaana has far, far underestimated Egwene.

[safwd]

I think the main problem with the forsaken is that they are all so petty. They all consider everyone from the current age a joke, which is obviously not the case since Nyneave has proven she is a match in power to at least one forsaken, and she is not even the strongest female. Rand is certainly as strong as any of them now, Logain probably is up there and Taim as well (even though he is a DF). This should tell them that they arent so far above everyone in this age but they still dont get it.

Plus they will not work together on anything, and even if they do it is certainly not with trust. They are far to worried about one of the other Forsaken getting the edge on them. They could have done some serious damage if they would have just teamed up.

But not all of this is there fault. The DO likes it this way. He likes for the forsaken to fight amoungst themselves.

This is why evil never wins in stories. Evil will happily fight Evil as well as good, while good will come together to fight evil. They may beat on each other again afterwards but they will come together to fight evil.