Ship Wreck Mafia - game thread-

[Kivam]

I have a big post coming when it dawns.

 

No that does not mean I have a role.

 

Unless, of course, you just got yourself targeted.  May as well just post it now - there's only 1 player whose role you could have deduced, as far as I can tell, and they should already be healer protected.

 

Or, better yet, post it as close to 10PM MST as you can, so it won't impact the night action but you'll have it up in case you die when night ends

[loki redfern]

i hate waiting. iv decied what ever it is is of no importance and i will ignore its content utterly if my demands arnt met in the next nine minutes. :P

[Guest nephitess]

I need some night actions please!  You have 5 hours. :D

[Alys Kinch]

that's like one hour?

[Guest nephitess]

You wake up the with the sun shining in your face. You blink a few times and suddenly it dawns on you.....your stranded on the island. With at least one killer. You jump up and look around and your mouth drops....It seems the killers wanted to use rope.

 

The body swinging in the breeze is famier...as it turns the dead eyes stare into space. Barm continues to swing in the air as you shake your head. You saw it coming. Poor Barm.

 

Barm An innocent has been killed.

 

Now for the mystery to be solved...The Mason Group has been eliminated. Yes Kivam there was a mason group active...Was  *smirks*

 

It is now day three. this day will end Friday 18th at 9pm MST.

 

 

[Alys Kinch]

so either two or all three were masons. umm, that's really, really bad.

 

my gut says i should do a certain thing, but... my gut is usually wrong. i'm going to be patient and wait for more people to show up.

[Barmacral]

GAH! I lose access to a computer for 2 day's and go up in flames. Good luck everyone.

[Kison]

Kivam - Thanks for the clarification. Fortunately, I like to base my votes more on flawed logic than meta reasons.

 

As it is I see [glow=red,2,300]Kison[/glow] to be sticking out for bringing up that Talya's vote was based on horrible reasons, but so is his and has no backing.

 

Let me get this straight...

 

1) I pointed out how Talya's vote was placed for something a vote should not be placed for.

 

2) I vote for Talya because I think she used poor logic for vote placement.

 

3) Despite the fact I have a legit reason for placing my vote, my reason is just as poor as Talya's even though our vote basis has no similarity.

 

You do realize your logic is even WORSE than Talya's, right? It looks like you just made up a reason to tack on your vote.

 

I'm a bit lost but I think I'll go with Barm... the whole knowing Tigs had a role(?) thing is weird to say the least.... which means Vem is also on my ping.

 

Stamp of SUSPICION

 

 

WIFOM is WIFOM no matter how you slice it, and meta-gaming is meta-gaming. We all know how this works, and right now we seem to have a few players directing the action, a few playing with their cards close to their vest, and a few more laying low. It's interesting that we have so many players with distinctive styles, but that does not mean that they are defined by them. When I look at this particular game, I see this:

 

Kivam is the leading the game around like it's on a leash. Anytime one player has that much of an effect on the game, it spooks me because that's when other players get comfortable with someone directing them, and before you know it, the bad guys are doing a happy dance in the winner's circle.

 

I did not see Barm's remarks the same way that Kivam did, and Talya's vote for Barm with a subtle push from Kivam, combined with his admission that he and Talya have pulled off winning plans in past games spooks me even more. It's kind of like an antimeta before the main dish is served. But Vem could easily be a part of this.

 

My verdict is still out on Vem, so I'm going to wait to vote and see if we have a few more revealing posts.

 

Stamp of Approval

 

 

I don't think Kivam is scum. I could be wrong.

 

I am going to vote Leelou because of that toss-on. I am going to go back later and look at the people on the leading wagons.

 

So without further ado...

 

[glow=red,2,300]Leelou[/glow]

 

 

~~DAY ONE~~

Barm: (2) Kison, Soyo

Kivam: (3) Vemy, Loki, Barm

Talya: (1) Tigara

Tigara: (4) DPR, Alys, kivam, talya

 

Not Voting: Leelou, Danya, Naeann.

 

~~Day Two~~

Vemy (4): Kivam, Boyo, Danya, Alys

Barm (3): Talya, Loki, Naeann

Talya (2): Kison, DPR

Kison (1): Leelou

Kivam (1): Vemy

 

Not Voting: Dark Justice, Barm

 

More later!

[Kivam]

Dammit, dammit, dammit.  I warned the healer to protect Barm.  As soon as he made his comment about knowing Tigs had a role he was a confirmed innocent, and probably could have recruited more innocents into the Mason group.  I f'd us over pretty bad by voting Vemy, sorry  >:(

 

If I hadn't just gotten home from work I'd have a longer post.  But since I've been driving the action and aiming us at innocents (Barm day 1, Vemy day 2), i think its pretty likely that the evil crew has been hanging back.

 

I'm looking at Leelou, Talya, Naeann, Boyd and DPR (who has been very right, logically, but also been doing the "I'll dither about my vote then throw it on a third party candidate" dance)

 

Since [glow=red,2,300]Talya[/glow] continued to stick to Barm after it was blatantly obvious that he was a roled innocent, that's where I'll put my vote for now.  If she's evil, it could also shed some light on Leelou (who defended her) and Naeann, who followed her.

 

(Loki gets a mild pass for being Loki and sticking to Barm as his day 1 number 8 choice).

[Talya]

Soory Kivam but I still cannot see where it says he was a definate innocent. It was not written wnywhere...and sorry but the hinting and stuff went over my haed, guess I must be thick. But I will alos not be led around by people. At one point I almost changed my vote becasue of what you were saying, but when it came doen to it I couldn't see the evidence you kept going on about. If it was so obvious how come people added their votes to him after me. That is where you are just as likely find them.

 

And Kison It does look like it was flawed logic to go for Barm. However, because I couldn't see Kivam's 'evidence' I felt I was being manipulated. In fact me staying there has given the evil team a chance to make me look evil, which right now makes me want to go with Kivam.

 

I will have to read through again as at this time I should be getting ready for work.

[DPR]

 

This is out of the "too obvious to be true" play book.

 

Kivam mixes it up with Vemy and Vemy gets lynched. I should have thought about this before, but Vemy is one of the few players who does a lot of casing, so I can see an evil logic in wanting him out of the way and making sure that reams of old posts are not constantly being brought up for review.  The entire situation seemed unusually harsh and I thought that it might have been staged, but now I think it was just a focused hit.

 

Then, knowing that there would be suspicion after Vem turned up innocent, he makes the first post.  A dramatic "OMG! Not Vemy! Dammit...". But then he goes back to sweeten the deal "Oh yeah, healer, cover Barm becasue he's likely to have a role and is probably the finder!" If there had been a giant Starlight Inn blinking giant arrow icon, he would have used it.  :P

 

I think that the evils had a short list of who they wanted to see out of the way, and I think Kivam took two of them out. I think he knows he's going to be called on it, and he'll do whatever else he can to take a few more with him. And to top it off, he votes for Talya right after roasting me for voting for her last round. (a "third party candidate"? Hmmmmm. You did try hit all of the angles...)  This looks like a cover to preserve the team.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Kivam [/glow] Now all we need is a fake reveal, and it will be perfect.

[MsDanya]

I'm a bit confused on Kisons vote for LeeLou. could you explain it a bit more?

[Kivam]

 

This is out of the "too obvious to be true" play book.

 

Kivam mixes it up with Vemy and Vemy gets lynched. I should have thought about this before, but Vemy is one of the few players who does a lot of casing, so I can see an evil logic in wanting him out of the way and making sure that reams of old posts are not constantly being brought up for review.  The entire situation seemed unusually harsh and I thought that it might have been staged, but now I think it was just a focused hit.

 

Then, knowing that there would be suspicion after Vem turned up innocent, he makes the first post.  A dramatic "OMG! Not Vemy! Dammit...". But then he goes back to sweeten the deal "Oh yeah, healer, cover Barm becasue he's likely to have a role and is probably the finder!" If there had been a giant Starlight Inn blinking giant arrow icon, he would have used it.  :P

 

I think that the evils had a short list of who they wanted to see out of the way, and I think Kivam took two of them out. I think he knows he's going to be called on it, and he'll do whatever else he can to take a few more with him. And to top it off, he votes for Talya right after roasting me for voting for her last round. (a "third party candidate"? Hmmmmm. You did try hit all of the angles...)  This looks like a cover to preserve the team.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Kivam [/glow] Now all we need is a fake reveal, and it will be perfect.

 

If you think Barm was the finder, you aren't paying attention.  From the moment Barm made clear that he knew Tigs had a role, he was obviously a Mason - the only innocent role that would allow the player to know that another innocent is roled without conducting any nightime investigation. 

 

And the idea that I was evil and wanted to nightkill Barm, but still posted "Barm is obviously a roled innocent and needs healer protection" on the thread, and gave evidence to back it up - which would make it likely that a nightkill attack on Barm would fail, an obvious problem for me if I was evil - is absurd on its face.

 

As for the "third party" issue - the first day it was pretty blatant (and then somehow there was a rush to Tigs and away from me and Barm, which I don't think anyone could have expected).  The second day, I thought you had voted Talya much later in the action than a reread indicates you did.  (Sorry, like I said I was stumbling onto the thread after working until midnight and taking an hour train ride home - should have done a reread, but couldn't bring myself to).  Going back and looking, when you voted Talya it brought the count to Vemy 3, Talya 2, so that wasn't a non-entity vote; Alys' almost immediate vote on Vemy pushed it to 4-2 (in my memory, Alys had voted before you and it was 4-1 when you picked Talya).

 

 

[Leelou]

I never once said that I thought Talya was innocent or guilty...just that Kison's reason of voting her stuck out because it really didn't have much to go on. Sorry but I haven't been here since day one so I had a lot of catch up to do because I was on the vacation from hell and was quite stressed out recently. Here is the full quote from my post:

 

Vemy and Kivam have been making a bit fuss and as I see it both of you could be evil or both just can be grasping for straws as to who is evil, so atm I don't feel like getting into the middle of an argument that could be detrimental to the innocent team. As it is I see [glow=red,2,300]Kison[/glow] to be sticking out for bringing up that Talya's vote was based on horrible reasons, but so is his and has no backing.

[DPR]

If you think Barm was the finder, you aren't paying attention.  From the moment Barm made clear that he knew Tigs had a role, he was obviously a Mason - the only innocent role that would allow the player to know that another innocent is roled without conducting any nightime investigation. 

 

And the idea that I was evil and wanted to nightkill Barm, but still posted "Barm is obviously a roled innocent and needs healer protection" on the thread, and gave evidence to back it up - which would make it likely that a nightkill attack on Barm would fail, an obvious problem for me if I was evil - is absurd on its face.

 

As for the "third party" issue - the first day it was pretty blatant (and then somehow there was a rush to Tigs and away from me and Barm, which I don't think anyone could have expected).  The second day, I thought you had voted Talya much later in the action than a reread indicates you did.  (Sorry, like I said I was stumbling onto the thread after working until midnight and taking an hour train ride home - should have done a reread, but couldn't bring myself to).  Going back and looking, when you voted Talya it brought the count to Vemy 3, Talya 2, so that wasn't a non-entity vote; Alys' almost immediate vote on Vemy pushed it to 4-2 (in my memory, Alys had voted before you and it was 4-1 when you picked Talya).

 

Barm hinted at it, but Vem was the one who said "he had a role". You go after Vem with a vengance, but protect Barm? How does that work exactly, where Barm was obviously a Mason, but Vem was not? They kind of acted the same, which was part of my confusion in telling you and Vemy apart as possible evils.

 

No matter though, calling attention to innocent player roles is scummish and achieves only one thing: blown roles. this only helps the mafia, even using reverse psychology.

[DPR]

 

Oh yeah, almost left this out:

 

Saying "Healer, protect Barm at all costs!" always makes a nice cover when you know you are going to kill him.

[Kivam]

If you think Barm was the finder, you aren't paying attention.  From the moment Barm made clear that he knew Tigs had a role, he was obviously a Mason - the only innocent role that would allow the player to know that another innocent is roled without conducting any nightime investigation. 

 

And the idea that I was evil and wanted to nightkill Barm, but still posted "Barm is obviously a roled innocent and needs healer protection" on the thread, and gave evidence to back it up - which would make it likely that a nightkill attack on Barm would fail, an obvious problem for me if I was evil - is absurd on its face.

 

As for the "third party" issue - the first day it was pretty blatant (and then somehow there was a rush to Tigs and away from me and Barm, which I don't think anyone could have expected).  The second day, I thought you had voted Talya much later in the action than a reread indicates you did.  (Sorry, like I said I was stumbling onto the thread after working until midnight and taking an hour train ride home - should have done a reread, but couldn't bring myself to).  Going back and looking, when you voted Talya it brought the count to Vemy 3, Talya 2, so that wasn't a non-entity vote; Alys' almost immediate vote on Vemy pushed it to 4-2 (in my memory, Alys had voted before you and it was 4-1 when you picked Talya).

 

Barm hinted at it, but Vem was the one who said "he had a role". You go after Vem with a vengance, but protect Barm? How does that work exactly, where Barm was obviously a Mason, but Vem was not? They kind of acted the same, which was part of my confusion in telling you and Vemy apart as possible evils.

 

No matter though, calling attention to innocent player roles is scummish and achieves only one thing: blown roles. this only helps the mafia, even using reverse psychology.

 

Vemy only claimed to know Tigs was roled after I explained why Barm's revelation that he knew Tigs was roled meant Barm was a confirmed innocent.  The claim was enough to get my vote off of Vemy initially, but based on the timing I realized that I couldn't rely on the claim (since both options - a) Vemy actually knew Tigs had a role and b) Vemy was claiming he knew because he saw my deduction with respect to Barm - were equally likely, so from a logic perspective I couldn't factor the claim into the analysis one way or the other)

 

And frankly, other than in a game where the evils can't communicate, or where the finder or healer has already revealed, calling attention to a non-finder, non-healer's role is the opposite of scummish, particularly where that player is a lynch candidate.

 

If I were evil, I'd simply have filed the information away and nightkilled Barm quietly, not begged the healer to block any attempt on Barm.

 

The only other option (which isn't true, but looking at it without knowledge of my own PM from Nephi) is that I'm a symp, who couldn't have communicated Barm's role to my evil masters via PM, and needed to alert them in thread.  (Of course that still doesn't explain why I'd beg the healer to protect Barm, but since you're determined to ignore that for reasons I can't quite grasp, lets put that aside).  I'm not a symp, but if you think I am, then why vote for me??  Symps count as innocents in the tally and even if I were a symp killing me would get us nowhere closer to a win.  So if you believe I'm a symp, then don't trust me - but don't lynch me, either.

[Kivam]

 

Oh yeah, almost left this out:

 

Saying "Healer, protect Barm at all costs!" always makes a nice cover when you know you are going to kill him.

 

::)

 

No, if you're evil saying "Healer, protect my target, he's a very important roled innocent player" always makes an extremely stupid way to raise the chances that you won't be able to kill anyone for two nights running and will lose the game

[DPR]

 

Oh yeah, almost left this out:

 

Saying "Healer, protect Barm at all costs!" always makes a nice cover when you know you are going to kill him.

 

Then again, Barm is dead, so "extremely stupid" might not have been the best way to describe it ;)

 

Anyway, I know that you are capable of producing a convincing argument one way or the other, and we could go round and round with opinions, but for now, you are my best pick. I've laid out my arguments, and there you have it.  If I see a reason to change my vote, I will, but that does kind of depend on you and I not being the only ones posting!

::)

 

No, if you're evil saying "Healer, protect my target, he's a very important roled innocent player" always makes an extremely stupid way to raise the chances that you won't be able to kill anyone for two nights running and will lose the game

[DPR]

 

Somehow I managed to jumble everything inside the qoute  - my reply runs from "Then again, Barm is dead.....to....."the only ones posting."

 

My teachers always warned me about rushing....

[Kivam]

*tap tap*

 

*tap tap*

 

Testing, testing . . . uh, is this thing on?  Anybody out there?

 

*meanders off stage*

[MsDanya]

*applauds* da capo!

[Naeann]

What's confused me is what DPR mentioned... [glow=red,2,300]Kivam[/glow] has been pretty well after Vemy the whole game... then calls those of us who voted for Barmy out because he turned out to be a mason... you were doing the same thing with Vemy so why is it just something you suspected when it's you but when it's someone else .. they MUST be mafia....  I just thought he seemed the most supsicious at the time and it's my fault for doing a skim instead of read thru before voting.  It seems overly convenient for the mafia team to then target him and accuse those of us who had votes on him.  Don't think I as well as others arent taking into fact that you are a master at this game.  You work your words and schemes and manipulate us so that we ride along happily on your false trail right into the wolves den before we know we are in danger.

[Kivam]

What's confused me is what DPR mentioned... [glow=red,2,300]Kivam[/glow] has been pretty well after Vemy the whole game... then calls those of us who voted for Barmy out because he turned out to be a mason... you were doing the same thing with Vemy so why is it just something you suspected when it's you but when it's someone else .. they MUST be mafia....  I just thought he seemed the most supsicious at the time and it's my fault for doing a skim instead of read thru before voting.  It seems overly convenient for the mafia team to then target him and accuse those of us who had votes on him.  Don't think I as well as others arent taking into fact that you are a master at this game.  You work your words and schemes and manipulate us so that we ride along happily on your false trail right into the wolves den before we know we are in danger.

 

;D

 

Thanks, I think.  But only when I'm evil, Nae - only when I'm evil. 

 

Which I'm not, this time.

 

There's a very basic difference between Vem and Barm - whether you figured out that Barm was a mason or not before he died, he was a confirmed innocent.  Vemy was not.

 

Here's the sequence of events:

 

1) Tigs dies in a death scene that doesn't seem to identify him as anything more than a roleless innocent

 

2) I ask the mod if the coroner will include full role reveals

 

3) Barm says no.

 

(Deduction: Since Barm is not a mod, Barm believes Tigs had a role)

 

4) Mod says "actually, yes"

 

5) Barm says "well, doesn't look that way from the death scene"

 

(translation: "I know Tigs had a role and the death scene doesn't say so")

 

6) Mod says "there are hints"

 

(Translation: "Yes, Tigs had a role, no, it isn't explicitly in the death scene, but I hinted at it")

 

(Deduction: Mod is confirming that Barm knew Tigs had a role.)

 

(Further deduction: Barm is innocent.  No mod tells the evil team which innocents are roled before the game starts, and even if the evil team has a role-finder ability, no evil player would use it on Tigs when Tigs died day 1.  Similarly, if Barm was an innocent role-finder, he wouldn't have wasted his ability checking Tigs night 1 when Tigs was already dead.  Therefore, Barm must have been aware of Tigs role from the start of the game, which - given the assumption that the mod won't tell the evils who the roled innocents are before the game starts - means that Barm MUST be an innocent (and a roled innocent, at that)

 

7) Barm says "uh, ok, if you say so"

 

8.) I go back find the line about the "ticket from a past cruise"

 

(At this point I deduce that we likely have a Mason group operating which includes Barm - its the only standard role that allows innocents to know who each other are before the game.  It could have been a non-standard role, but the "ticket from a past cruise" seems tailored to explain why certain people already know each other, so that locks it in for me that Barm is a Mason.  I PM Nephi just to be able to say I know there's a Mason group (since I can't tell anyone else))

 

9) Day 2 - I explain why Barm's identification of Tigs as roled before the mod confirmation means that he is a confirmed innocent.

 

10) Talya (IIRC - might be someone else, this is off the top of my head) says "we don't know tigs had a role for certain" (despite the fact that Barm clearly did know for certain, the mod's comments confirmed it, and a search in the death scene found exactly the hint the mod said would be there) and votes Barm

 

11) Vemy says "Tigs was roled"

 

(Possibilities: A) Vemy is innocent and a Mason or following my logic; or B) Vemy is evil and trying to join Barm as a "confirmed innocent" by making it look like he also knew Tigs had a role before it was mod confirmed.  I take my vote off VemyBecause there's no way to determine which possibility is true without lynching Vemy, I decide to continue pointing at Vemy since he seems the most suspicious)

 

12) Loki votes Barm as number 8 and for flip-flopping day 1.

 

13) Nae votes Barm because "Barm knowing Tigs' role is weird

 

 

 

[Naeann]

Yes... I get it Kivam... my vote and reason was flawed... I was trying to speed read and come to some sort of vote... I didn't catch some of what you just recapped.  I think I've only seen the mason role one other time so it never  crossed my mind til I saw that Nephi said Barm was one.  I knew unless there was some weird special role that no one could have viewed or done any actions on Tigs to see if he was roled so I didn't really get what Barm was getting at. I didn't know why he was going on about role reveals... just noticed he was acting weird.  I may regret it but you make a good case in your defence so ill [glow=red,2,300]unvote[/glow] you for now.