Darkfriends Named and Shamed!

[Luckers]

Unless of course all that is a cover. Think of what he has cost the light. He got a bunch of people killed trying to retake the stone to no avail. He set back negotiations between the rebels and darlin. In a POD he almost got Rand killed when he chased off after Seanchan he claims he saw moving around the ridge. He is constantly snipping at both the aiel clan chiefs and later the illianers stirring up resentment and discord. And yet Rand has never punished him for all this, why? Cause rand thinks he's just an incompitent. What if in fact he uses incompitence as a veil and is in fact very very clever.

 

Still, on the order of recent events, the people Wieramon has cost they light hasn't really been on all that much of a drastic manner. Concider Mat just summarily slaughtered 10,000 trained soldiers. I see him as kind of innefectual, wether he be a servant of light or shadow.

 

Taedawn may not be so crazy, I think Lan is a darkfriend.

 

Before you flame my head off just check out WH: 'A lily in winter' when the three girls confront Rand.

 

The only people in the room are: Rand, Elayne, Min, Aviendha, Nynaeve and Lan. This is where Rand tells Nynaeve that he intends to cleanse Saidin and gives her the two keys to Chedan Kal.

 

Then in 'Wonderful news' - the very next chapter, Moridin’s bit of fluff (Cyndane) is telling the Forsaken all about Rand’s plan – how did Moridin/Cyndane know so quickly?

 

Think about it … right from EoW the bad guys always show up around Lan. Maybe he was set to watch Moirane, maybe he was set to watch Nynaeve (or maybe fell in love with her by chance and it was used when Moirane bit the bullet)

 

Even further, Moridin says in PoD (or LoC) that he plays both sides of the game … maybe Moridin is Lan!

 

Rand spoke of his intention to cleanse the source to Torval. We know that Torval spoke to Moridin between then and the attack on the palace in Cairhein, from Kismans thoughts, during which Moridin commanded Torval to kill rand if he had to, but most importantly to obtain what was with him. Now in direct timeline that actual conversation would have occured just before the Forsaken Coffee Hour. What most likely occured is that Torval told Moridin of Rand's plans, Cyndane revealed that Rand has the Choedan Kal, Moridin figured out what Rand was planning, and freaked out.

 

Additionally Moridin displayed knowledge of Rand's intentions in ordering the obtaining of the Choedan Kal before Lan was made aware of Rands plans.

[algspkr]

Taedawn may not be so crazy' date=' I think Lan is a darkfriend.

 

Before you flame my head off just check out WH: 'A lily in winter' when the three girls confront Rand.

 

The only people in the room are: Rand, Elayne, Min, Aviendha, Nynaeve and Lan. This is where Rand tells Nynaeve that he intends to cleanse Saidin and gives her the two keys to Chedan Kal.

 

[b']Then in 'Wonderful news' - the very next chapter, Moridin’s bit of fluff (Cyndane) is telling the Forsaken all about Rand’s plan – how did Moridin/Cyndane know so quickly? [/b]

 

Think about it … right from EoW the bad guys always show up around Lan. Maybe he was set to watch Moirane, maybe he was set to watch Nynaeve (or maybe fell in love with her by chance and it was used when Moirane bit the bullet)

 

Even further, Moridin says in PoD (or LoC) that he plays both sides of the game … maybe Moridin is Lan!

 

 

maybe it's not so insane - what a blast huh?

 

Biabeli

The bigger the belly, the louder the laugh.

Cyndane is Lanfear, we see that for sure in her POV at the end of WH. She knew that Rand had the Access Keys, and they could logically figure that the only hope Rand had of cleansing Sadin was to use them. If he tried without he would at best simply fail in which case the sadow had nothing to worry about.

[algspkr]

Moridin no kill Rand because he is playing BOTH sides untill the last battle - lost of pointers to this.

Not through the entire series' date=' he has gone from turning Rand, to wanting him dead to wanting him as a pawn.

Looks? Those who can channel can look like what they want if they know the weave.

There are limits especially if they stray far from the original.

Alive long before - there are a few mentions on Moridin having many lives - just like Rand.

Moridin's present incarnation dates back to the end of the AoL, he became Ishmael at the end of that age and was partially sealed when LTT patched the bore. He has influnced the Third Age most notably at Arthur Hawking's most trusted advisor. He had direct influnce over the Trollocks and Mydrill chacing Rand and Co. in TEotW. I believe he gained complete freedom after TGH as he was not resurected by the DO after either of his previous "deaths". After Rand killed Ishmael at the end of TDR he was resurected as Moridin, keeping his memories and personality intact.

The Na'blis is the DO's version of Rand - they both keep getting reborn.

But when they are reborn of the Wheel as Rand was they start over from birth, when the are reborn of the Dark One they pop up in a used body generally found in the Borderlands.

Make sense?

[algspkr]

As Elida watches her power slip away Messana will make herself known to Elida, and we will see Elida sell her soul.

[Kadere]

Oh that'll be sweet.

[Vicious Circle]

My money is on Aviendha. She's a dark friend and that's why she killed Asmodean. She's the one who slipped Kadere the note saying one of the "chosen" had a plan. She "could" have seen exactly when and where to kill Asmodean in the Rings of Rhuidean. Her betrayal would be a heck of a blow to all of Rand's close friends. That's why RJ has been so closed mouthed about Asmodeans death. And that would be an awesome way to mess with our minds, which is just what RJ loves to do.

 

I'm just sayin' that's how I would write it.

 

P.S. I really used to love Avi before she was all domesticated by Elayne, but maybe that was part of her orders too.

 

Just my two cents.

[Vicious Circle]

oooooo.....I'm a thread killer! :roll:

[Vicious Circle]

oooooo.....I'm a thread killer! :roll:

[Samitsu]

I actually think its required for many of the aiel wise ones to be Darkfriends or we're gonna have a very skewed last battle' date=' numerically speaking. Possibly some of the clan chiefs... it actually strikes me that a darkfriend would have more ease surviving the collums because they have already betrayed the aiel way of life, a second time wouldn't distraut them as much... which is not to say i think a lot of them are, but meh.

 

As for others, i think it will be interesting to see the blacks amongst the Aes Sedai... i personally think there is another in the sitters of Egwenes hall... though not Lelaine, she's too obvious. I think King Roedran, if he isn't actually Demandred, is a darkfriend. Maybe one of the borderlanders, or the Aes Sedai with them... i think there must be some biggness to when they actually meet Rand, and an assasination attempt resulting in the death of Tenobia and Bashere seems very likely to me. I suspect the end of Suroth wont be the end of darkfriend problems for the Seanchan either.

 

Maj is right, there is no chance Verin is a darkfriend. We have povs of her contemplating and confronting Forsaken, we have the poison attempt that wasn't, we have the fact that she compelled Elza (the red sister you mentioned--she's actually a green) and all those others to make sure they want rand to survive to the last battle, which is were her justifications come from... theres the fact that almost all the big players have been at her mercy throughout the course of the books... no she aint black.

 

Smoosh, I don't think many people still think Taim is Demandred, or controlled by him for that matter, given osan'gar and they fact that they seem to be issueing orders without awareness of each other. I think Taim IS a darkfriend though, so its sort of moot.[/quote']

 

THen how did she Lie? she told rand that Moriane had sent her, and i seriously doubt that A Chosen One or AS used a Mask of Mirrors to trick her

[Luckers]

Thats one of the great questions of the mysteries of Verin. Nevertheless, she is no darkfriend, we have ample evidence of that... first person pov during her fight with Graendal, in compelling the AS, in deciding not to kill Cadsuane.

 

In any case it would be remiss of us to assume that in RJ's world of complexities, that Verin must be a darkfriend simply because she is different to Lightbound Aes Sedai.

[Inara]

she didnt say WHERE moir sent her, or when she did the sending. she simply said, "moiraine sent me" ...

 

it could be about a totally unrelated matter

[Guest cwestervelt]

Moridin knows because of Osh'agar (or however you spell it). Its in one of the chapters after the battle with the seanchan. Rand tells the 5 Asha'man that are with him about how he plans to cleanse saidin. One of whom is a forsaken.

 

Aside from a couple of generals being revealed as darkfriends. The only other possible reveal that would have major implications would be Cadsuanne (who likely isn't a DF anyway).

 

Cadsuane is definitely not a Darkfriend. She regularly plays mental games to justify her reasons. Most notably though, in one of her PoV's she is thinking about how she had almost managed to root out the Black Ajah at one point. She's a Darkfriend hunter, not a Darkfriend.

[Samitsu]

she didnt say WHERE moir sent her' date=' or when she did the sending. she simply said, "moiraine sent me" ...

 

it could be about a totally unrelated matter[/quote']

 

 

dang, never thought of that... Curse you Truth Bending Aes SEdai :x

[Mashiara]

Biabeli-

The only problem with your Lan as Moridin theory is the fact that if Moridin was Lan, he would either have to kill him, or hide him away somewhere that no one can find him. I think that Myrelle might notice if her Warder was kidnapped or killed.

[Lui2692]

i dont think many wise ones will be darkfriends remember Suroth mentioning that not many suldam came back after swearing to the dark one and since there are huge amounts of females weilding the power from seanchan that a large portion of those will be found out to be darkfriend channelers.

[rd2000]

I have a hunch Annoura (Berelain's advisor Aes Sedai) is a darkfreind.

[The Don]

Ish/Moridin was never a warrior or a soldier, much less a Blademaster on par with Lan. No way Lan can be a Darkfriend of any kind... Moraine would have felt it, I think. Now if Moraine was a Darkfriend....

[infamous]

Verin I think. Because the letter that moiraine wrote to rand mentioned her and i dont't think thatit would have been for nothing. Taim. But those are obvious guesses. Masema.

[Aviendha]

I think Egeanin (the Seanchan) is a DF. I only think this because of a reference she made to the 'Dark Lord' in Chapter 21 (Matter of Property) in Book 9. This may have been a typo - but maybe not!

[Inara]

i cant find it, and there is at least one reference she makes to the 'dark one' coming to steal her eyes.

p426 in the trade paperback edition.

[Luckers]

Verin I think. Because the letter that moiraine wrote to rand mentioned her and i dont't think thatit would have been for nothing.

 

Actually the inference of that message was that Moiraine thought Verin was the highest example of a TRUSTWORTHY aes sedai. Literally what she was doing was warning him to not TRUST any aes sedai, from one that Moiraine knew Rand did not trust (Alviarin) to one that she knew he did (Verin), to some extent any way. It's whats called a reductio ad absurdum... reduce to the absurd. She was saying don't trust anyone, not even [insert trustworthy person here]

 

I dont think that can be held with any weight as evidence, not against the evidence against her being a darkfriend.

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Maybe ... Logain? I don't know, but Taim is just targeted too much... something that obvious is uncharacteristic for RJ. If Logain is a sparker, than the same problem crops up as with Taim: if he LOOKS 25, how old is he really if he's been channeling six years? And if he's NOT a sparker, who did he learn from? Who says glory must be in service of Light or Shadow? Glory could be obtained by screwing Rand over, whether Rand really minds or not.

 

Bashere would be interesting... I think Berelain would never be a Darkfriend, but it would be a pretty big shock if FAILE was a Friend of the Dark... Perrin would freak.

 

Rhuarc, now... I've always liked Rhuarc a lot, but there must be something up with him, man. He's the most prominent of the Aiel, and if any Aiel were to really hit us hard by coming out of the closet, Rhuarc it would be. Amys, I think, walks in the Light. So does Sorilea, because she minds me so much of Cadsuane. But Melaine... she's my favorite Wise One, but I'd point the finger at her, given the choice. But I really hope she's not a DF.

 

Ah... Weiramon, definitely. Perhaps Toram Riatin? Don't know. Lady Tyelin could be, angelic soul though she seems to be. Davram Bashere had BETTER NOT BE. Gareth Bryne? That would be interesting. Lelaine? She creeped me out in KoD. Leane? That would kill me. Chel Vanin? Seems loyal to Mat, but why?

 

Moiraine is kind of like a WoT equivalent of Rachel Greene for me. People can be annoyed by her (as in fellow fictional characters) but I feel like hitting anyone who says a word against her. Maybe she's like Ingtar, except at a much greater scale. Might explain her zeal for like, saving the world and such... but she'd pee her pants at the Black Ajah, New Spring shows us, so she's probably not one of them, and if she was we would have seen. So leave the woman alone, will ya?

 

Why don't there seem to be any DFs in the Two Rivers? Cenn Buie? A Coplin or a Congar or a Coplin/Congar hybrid? Or maybe even someone we like, like Luhhan, Bran or Marin? Or Tam?

 

How about Jaret Byar (we might be seeing a repentant Byar in KoD)? Dain Bornhald? TROM? The Captain of Berelain's guards? I like Berelain a lot, so I will kick something if she's a DF herself.

 

I know. Yes, perfect! Here it goes...

 

Charlz Guybon! Getting close to Elayne, and then WHAM! Dead Queenie.

 

I'm tired. G'night.

[Luckers]

Maybe ... Logain? I don't know, but Taim is just targeted too much... something that obvious is uncharacteristic for RJ. If Logain is a sparker, than the same problem crops up as with Taim: if he LOOKS 25, how old is he really if he's been channeling six years? And if he's NOT a sparker, who did he learn from? Who says glory must be in service of Light or Shadow? Glory could be obtained by screwing Rand over, whether Rand really minds or not.

 

Men can manifest the spark as late as 30. If he manifested at 24 and slowed... This was given in answer to the question of Taim also.

 

Bashere would be interesting... I think Berelain would never be a Darkfriend, but it would be a pretty big shock if FAILE was a Friend of the Dark... Perrin would freak.

 

This might be kinda cool... though its sort of already been done with Melindra (sp).

 

Rhuarc, now... I've always liked Rhuarc a lot, but there must be something up with him, man. He's the most prominent of the Aiel, and if any Aiel were to really hit us hard by coming out of the closet, Rhuarc it would be. Amys, I think, walks in the Light. So does Sorilea, because she minds me so much of Cadsuane. But Melaine... she's my favorite Wise One, but I'd point the finger at her, given the choice. But I really hope she's not a DF.

 

I too have reached the conclusion that one of the Aiel must be a darkfriend. I too think it is most likely to be Melaine out of all the ones we know. I don't see it being Rhuarc... possibly Amys. Not Sorilea, simply because i dont see her subjegating herself before anything.

 

Ah... Weiramon, definitely. Perhaps Toram Riatin? Don't know. Lady Tyelin could be, angelic soul though she seems to be. Davram Bashere had BETTER NOT BE. Gareth Bryne? That would be interesting. Lelaine? She creeped me out in KoD. Leane? That would kill me. Chel Vanin? Seems loyal to Mat, but why?

 

Weiramon. Yes. Toram is dead, and besides, he was too nasty to be a darkfriend, he was just an idiot. Tyelin... yes, possibly. Though she would have served the dark much better by opposing Elayne and continuing the war--the whole let the lord of chaos rule order that seems to be standing for all darkfriends. Bashere and Bryne, no. Simply because if they had been at any stage, they would have already caused irreprable damage. I think Bashere's wife may be though. And that he will be forced to kill her himself, before he dies. Lelaine, again, seems too nasty to actually be someone evil. Chel Vanin... yeah i could see that. Leane, no. She has done too much for the light.

[Alviarin]

I have had this theory for forever. I personally believe that moiraine is a dark friend! If she was, so many more things in the series would make sense.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Moiraine is one of the few people that you can be absolutely certain is not a Darkfriend. Her and Lan killed their first Black Sister shortly after the Aiel War and before Moiraine had even bonded him. At that point, Moiraine's fears were that the Black Ajah would find and kill the Dragon Reborn while he was still in diapers and that Cadsuane was Black Ajah.