Sexuality in Randland

[Luckers]

It's all conjecture at this point, though i could definately see it. One point though...

 

Moridin seems to show the same desire for Rand that Lanfear/Cyndane does. He vehemently objects to Cyndane's suggestion to capture Rand to make him tell the Chosen were the Dark One's seals are. This is uncommon because it is one of the few instances in the series where he shows any kind of emotion and responds to a suggestion so quickly (KoD,Ch3). Although he undoubtedly wants to kill Rand himself, there is a strong overtone that he wants to (psychologically, psychosexually, and in a Freudian manner) have Rand for himself:

 

"No!" Moridin snapped, fixing her with a steady stare. "You would 'accidentally' kill him. The time and manner of al'Thor's death will be at my choosing. No one else." ... "That goes for all of you. Al'Thor is mine. You will not harm in any way!"(KoD,Ch3)

 

The degree of Moridin's reaction is almost certainly based in the fear of what would happen to him if Rand were to die. It is the same reason he suddenly reiterated the no-kill order after the link between them was formed in Shadar Logoth... and ultimately, given what happens to warders when their bondmate dies Moridin has reason to fear--his connection to Rand is much stronger then the bond between a warder and his Aes Sedai.

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Just for reference, the fella that Shaidar is talking about is Agni Neres.  He has a wife and children (not that that means anything, really) ... and in his opinion, women are the basis for all men's troubles.

 

I have to say, his attitude to me seems less like a lack of sexual attraction to women and more like an active dislike of his wife, that he extends to women in general.  Most of the homosexual men I'm acquainted with don't actually dislike women, they just don't necessarily want to have sex with them.

[Luckers]

Oh I don't know mate... those women, they're awful silly creatures.

[Tenshin_Xo]

It could be his thoughts are modeled after the adage of "Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em."  Not necessarily homosexual, but certainly crotchety.  ;)

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

It could be his thoughts are modeled after the adage of "Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em."  Not necessarily homosexual, but certainly crotchety. 

 

 

Well, women are the basis for all men's troubles! :D :D Women are generaly a pain in the bottom. But then again they have such nice bottoms. :-* ::) ;D

 

[DuDZiK]

Just for reference, the fella that Shaidar is talking about is Agni Neres.  He has a wife and children (not that that means anything, really) ... and in his opinion, women are the basis for all men's troubles.

 

I have to say, his attitude to me seems less like a lack of sexual attraction to women and more like an active dislike of his wife, that he extends to women in general.  Most of the homosexual men I'm acquainted with don't actually dislike women, they just don't necessarily want to have sex with them.

 

Yeah he seemed more mysoginistic (sp?) than homosexual.

[Luckers]

Don't let that confuse you though. Some of the guys I've been with have been deeply deeply mysoginistic.

 

But either way its hardly a good basis for trying to figure out if he is gay.

[Aka Karalin]

Y'all-

I read the first page, and part of the second page of this thread, and I don't plan on reading more. Let me just put in my two bits worth. The sexuality is the thing I really don't like about these books. Frankly, the lesbianism and polygamy offend and disgust me. Lest you misunderstand me, I respect everyone here as a person who is precious in the sight of God. But while I respect someone, I will not respect homosexuality or polygamy, because they are specifically condemned in the Bible. Homosexuality and polygamy are both wrong, and against God's natural order. That's what I have to say. Also, please don't pounce too hard on people who voice an opinion of disapproval on this issue. Their opinion matters too :-)

                       -Aka Karalin

 

ps.BTW, here are some Bible references to look up if you want to:

   1 Corinthians 6:9-11

   1 Corinthians 6:18-20

   Leviticus 20:13

[Luckers]

I think perhaps you don't mean monogamy.

 

And will do with the bible quote. Leviticus always brings a smile to my lips.

[Aka Karalin]

oh man, I am so, so sorry! I meant polygamy. Sorry! I'm going to go edit that post...

[Aka Karalin]

Post edited. Thanks a ton, Luckers!

[Tyrell]

Yes, the old testament is indeed always good for a laugh at hardliners luckers. I don't see people being stoned right left and center for various other offences named there. For instance the following things are condemned :

 

-People who work on the sabbath should be put to death

-Planting two different crops in the same field

-Blasphemy

-Wearing clothes made of two different kinds of thread

-Having the hair around your temples cut.

 

It also sanctions slavery.

 

What's your view here, or is the bible a product of its times with bits that we can ignore in the 21st century when it's convenient, and othertimes we not so much?

 

I also wouldn't say that polygamy is against God's natural order, there are a number of species of animals in which a single male has alot of females to mate with.

 

I find that I believe in God but I just can't accept any of the gods I've heard about yet, just when one seems to be turning out well it's back to the silliness. I seem to recall being told that some people are naturally inclined towards homosexuality just as others are naturally inclined towards hetrosexuality (I've certainly never considered homosexuality), why would God make people homosexual and then hate them for it?

 

edit : Sorry if I'm comming off offensive, but I just can't see why some people feel this way about homosexuals, or indeed any kind of people. Lemme delete the first paragraph, that's just flame bait.

 

Happy Christmas! (Really, I do mean it)

[Shaidar]

You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them. Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

Entertaining stuff.

[Darth_Andrea]

Persoanly I don't pay any attention to the bible. And not just because I'm not christian. I find the whole book to be more a mixture of myth and legend taken from so many non jewish sources (for the old testiment) that it should even be considered a jewish text. The Epic of Gilgimesh (sp!) for example is a ancient sumarian text that is apparently the orgin of Noah/Flood story and it's possiable that was taken from a even old either writen or spoken tradition. Creation is just another myth of how the universe came to be. Every ancient culture as a creation myth in one form or another. The New testiment is just as flawed as the old, a good majority of it wasn't writen durring the time of the events it speaks of, and was relayed word of mouth for at least 50 to 100 years before they were writen. Mark Luke and John are accreaded to people but it can't be truely proven they wrote them or when they were actually writen. And lets not forget that the constitine councle that finialized the cannon of the bible in the documents they left behind made it clear that alot of those texts where edited to make them more acceptiable to the Roman Catholic view of things.

 

 

 

Thats my rant....I'm done.....

 

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

Entertaining stuff.

 

Actually the verse you quoted shows that none of us deserve to go to heaven as we are all sinners. Thus salvation is gained only through faith and not deeds. ;D

[Luckers]

This is probably a topic that should move to the Debates and Discussions board.

 

Just for clarity though, i didn't mean anything nasty in my comment about Leviticus. As an athiest i obviously don't concider the bible to be the word of God, but nonetheless is represents several thousand years of humanities ideas about the nature of existence, and good and so forth, and i do definately reguard it as worthy of study. It's why i major in comparative religion.

[CUBAREY]

Luckers, no offense was taken(at least by myself) while I have disagreed with some of the views you have expressed in certain threads I have never found that you have intentionally bated someone or couched your views in ways that were meant to be offensive.  Its also refreshing to see that at least one athiest on these threads does not dismiss the value of religion even though he does not accept the factual bases of the mythalogy.

[The Goblin Queen]

Perrin gay

 

Perrin being gay would mean he would get rid of Faile, and how could that be anything but a wonderfully good thing?

[Shaidar]

God is a leap too far across a dark abyss. If you look at it long enough, it looks unto you. How can one believe in God, if one doubts existence? Is it the abyss, or God Itself? Or are they consubstantial? I rage against the dying of the unbearable light as the abyss swallows me up in its firm but unjudging embrace. But darkness is light. It sears my soul to ash.

 

Btw ur gay and so's ur mom.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

Btw ur gay and so's ur mom.

 

And your's wears combat boots! :o

[Luckers]

Luckers, no offense was taken(at least by myself) while I have disagreed with some of the views you have expressed in certain threads I have never found that you have intentionally bated someone or couched your views in ways that were meant to be offensive.  Its also refreshing to see that at least one athiest on these threads does not dismiss the value of religion even though he does not accept the factual bases of the mythalogy.

 

Exactly. Too many athiests are too busy trying to defend themselves against the strong conformatism of religion that they don't pause to actually look at religion. I personally think its wasteful. There is so much wisdom in religion--i mean, no matter how stupid people are, they dont follow something that has no element of wisdom.

 

In much the same light i feel that people of particular religions should study other religions. There is so much to learn.

 

Perrin gay

 

Perrin being gay would mean he would get rid of Faile, and how could that be anything but a wonderfully good thing?

 

This made me giggle like a schoolgirl. You've made my day GQ.

 

 

[professorskar]

Y'all-

I read the first page, and part of the second page of this thread, and I don't plan on reading more. Let me just put in my two bits worth. The sexuality is the thing I really don't like about these books. Frankly, the lesbianism and polygamy offend and disgust me.

 

You said you weren't reading any more of this, so consider these to be just hypothetical questions for the rest of the people still reading this thread.

 

I have no problems with your beliefs, but it kind of boggles me that the things that offend you in the books are lesbianism and polygamy.

 

I mean, there are plenty of other things that are in this book which to me, seem should be seen as more offensive than lesbianism and polygamy.  How about murder?  Rape?  Torture?  Think of some of the acts that the Forsaken have committed.  Are they actually less offensive than a culture where lesbianism and polygamy are considered acceptable (the latter referring only to the Aiel...the other Randlanders are pretty shocked by the polygamy).

 

Granted, reading about these things doesn't offend me, but with all those examples, I find it odd that you would be offended about lesbianism and polygamy over these other atrocities.  Now, I know what some people might be thinking..."These are just books, none of these violent acts are actually occurring," and to that I say, "neither is the lesbianism or polygamy."

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

mean, there are plenty of other things that are in this book which to me, seem should be seen as more offensive than lesbianism and polygamy.  How about murder?  Rape?  Torture?  Think of some of the acts that the Forsaken have committed.  Are they actually less offensive than a culture where lesbianism and polygamy are considered acceptable (the latter referring only to the Aiel...the other Randlanders are pretty shocked by the polygamy).

 

In Aka's defense its one thing for the "evil" characters in a book to manifest their evilness by committing murder, rape, torture, etc., its another for the "good" characters engage in conduct that your religion views as immoral.  I myself am a christian and view the lesbion relationships as counter to the teachings of my faith. However, as I view all humans as sinners and thus unworthy of salvation I admit that I live in a glass house and will not generally throw stones at gays. The more interesting question, however, is why does someone who honestly and sincerely have problems with views that run counter to her faith, read a fantasy series whose entire premise denies the validity of her core religous views( I'm here speaking about the nature of the creator as a disinterested observer). My own religous views allow me to find "truths" in religions and mythalogies which I do not agree with. However, I acknowledge that my views are not honestly shared by many of those who espouse my faith. But most of those individuals would not read "fantasy" in the first place.

[Luckers]

'will not generally'.

 

Oh dear. *starts looking for a stone proof umberella*

[rd2000]

Sorry to throw this off-topic, but I find it interesting that so many here still don't know that Luckers is female and continue to call her....he. Is this a sign that our society does not want to recognize that someone with such a gift of intelligence can be.........female?