Stray thought regarding healing stilling

[Man of MAdnEss]

While reading another thread I wondered if it is possible to make a person able to channel that previously didn't have the spark or the ability.

 

Nynaeve said that something was cut or like a gap, couldn't an Aes Sedai bridge that gap in a normal person to make them able to channel?

 

MM

[elmis]

You have to have the channeling gene, in order to channel. Jordan said something about that during a Q/A once. :)

 

On another note, given as Aginor was deep into mixing genes from humans and animals and what have you, maybe he could have stumbled on a way to put that gene into some of his creations. Wouldn't that be something? A trolloc staring down his nose (or beak), sniffing and smoothening the ruffles on his hide armor, before he shoots a few fireballs.  ;D

[DemandredFO]

Except that the soul is required to channel too.  There may be a gene I don't know but I do know the soul is required evidenced by Balthamel being able to channel Saidin as Aran'gar.

[Luckers]

You have to have the channeling gene, in order to channel. Jordan said something about that during a Q/A once. :)

 

On another note, given as Aginor was deep into mixing genes from humans and animals and what have you, maybe he could have stumbled on a way to put that gene into some of his creations. Wouldn't that be something? A trolloc staring down his nose (or beak), sniffing and smoothening the ruffles on his hide armor, before he shoots a few fireballs.  ;D

 

It seems very likely to me, personally, that Myrdraal are what happens when the human gene for channeling breeds true. The peculiarity of their nature, their ability to sense the Power, their ability to link....

[Davian93]

It seems very likely to me, personally, that Myrdraal are what happens when the human gene for channeling breeds true. The peculiarity of their nature, their ability to sense the Power, their ability to link....

 

Although not specifically proven...I would say that that is a good bet Luckers. 

 

Yeah but as mentioned above channeling seems to be a 2 part requirement with both the gene and soul needing to be right.

[VampireGoat]

I think it's a very difficult thing to pin-point. The soul seems to be a key feature, and since shielding stilling etc involve use of spirit weaves it indicates a link to the soul.

 

If I remeber correctly the chances were very low for AS to produce children who could channel, that could be bad memory on my part however. Also considering the deminishing population of AS if it was indeed genetic I would assume some sort of er breeding program would have been set up to well 'produce' ideal sisters, though thats taking it to the extreme and it'd be throwing RJ deep into conflict with other authors, or their fans at least.

 

Ignoring that though, you would think AS would at least be expected to bear a child or two if it was genetic. Of course the gene could well be recessive hence the rarity it shows up

 

If it is genetic then of course there would have to be a variety of different channeling genes, one for saidar and saidin I'd presume and different genes for different type of channelers ie thoose who can channel naturally and thoose who have to be taught.

 

There's just to many ifs for me to feel comfortable calling it genetic, to variable. The entire channeling experience is pure mystic as gets and considering that stilling etc and all the weaves are targeted at the spirit suggesting that its the spirit that controls the whole affair allowing power to be transmuted between bodies, lives etc etc.

 

Of course it is, as people have said highly likely that its a combination of both, gene allows them to channel, spirit governs the rest however that just seems to fiddley to me. If the spirit goveners controls and is the access point for channeling since its definetly not 'high brain function' why bother making it genetic at all?

 

I do remeber however comments in the book about people thinking that the ability had been somewhat culled by generations of hunting male channelers, this is a direct point towards genes but that was a character theory itself.

 

Final straw is what RJ says, and if he has said its genetic like someone said he did then theres no point for me to argue

 

I just fear the day you get rude boy ashaman telling those who failed the test how 'they got the heart but done have the soul!' :P

 

 

In answer to the original post, based on my nonsensical ramblings I conclude. No you cant artificialy give someone the ability to channel.

[The Dragon Reborn]

While reading another thread I wondered if it is possible to make a person able to channel that previously didn't have the spark or the ability.

 

Nynaeve said that something was cut or like a gap, couldn't an Aes Sedai bridge that gap in a normal person to make them able to channel?

 

MM

 

ComicCon 2004 Wrap-Up July 22-25, 2004

My weekend at ComicCon with Robert Jordan

Jason Denzel

A question was asked about whether or not a non-channeler could go and become Enlightened through meditation and be able to sense the True Source, or even channel it. RJ replied that there were indeed people in his world that sought Enlightenment in such ways, but no, that channeling was related to genetics. He went onto say that he estimates that the Age of Legends had about 2-3% of the population able to channel in one way or another, while in the modern world that number is down to about 1-2%.

 

Update: Robert Jordan sent me an email correcting this statement:

 

I went back to look at the article again and check something I thought I recalled. If I said the current population has about 1% to 2% who can learn to channel, then I misspoke, because I have set that figure at about 1%.

We talked about the Forsaken and how they know how to speak the current language. He said that if you can speak the Old Tongue, learning to understand and speak the new "Vulgar" tongue is not that difficult. When the Forsaken are together having their meetings, they speak in the Old Tongue. (RJ: "But I translate it for you guys.") Another very interesting note: Modern-day Sharans speak a form of the Old Tongue in their everyday speech. The exact analogy he used was a Roman landing in modern day Italy and having to figure out Italian from Latin. For someone extremely bright and well-educated like the FS it wouldn't be that hard. This is also consistent with information in the books. The Old Tongue is more complex, so learning the Vulgar from Old Tongue is much easier than vice versa. It also gibes with Graendal's thought while she is writing a letter that the modern script was so easy to learn and duplicate.

 

There's the best I could find, quite reliable though...answers the question fairly definitively.

[Man of MAdnEss]

Alright thanks, I hadn't heard anything difinitive on the subject and thought I would ask scince I know that this is the place to get answers for anything. 

 

MM

[Jarred Darque]

I am suprised it is as high as 1%, I woulda thought it was around .1% maybe.  i.e.  1 in 1000.

 

I agree that it looks genetic, and maybe not as a recessive trait so much as a Co-dominate trait,  i.e.  two channelers having a kid have a better chance at producing a channeler, and it is more likely they will be stronger than a channeler-non channerler child.

 

the population drop of channelers is due to both the culling of the male gene when it does show up, and that the AS hold themselves Aloof, rarely wed, and thus rarely have children, so their line stops with them, meaning that hte pasing of hte gene is relegated to people who where never found to channel, or from carriers of the gene where it was too recessive or to not-dominant enough and they had children, and general genetic mutations

[RobertAlexWillis]

I am suprised it is as high as 1%, I woulda thought it was around .1% maybe.  i.e.  1 in 1000.

 

There are apparently an awful lot of people who have the ability to learn, but never do it.  The percentage of the population that actually become channelers is probably much closer to .1% than 1%.

 

the population drop of channelers is due to both the culling of the male gene when it does show up, and that the AS hold themselves Aloof, rarely wed, and thus rarely have children, so their line stops with them, meaning that hte pasing of hte gene is relegated to people who where never found to channel, or from carriers of the gene where it was too recessive or to not-dominant enough and they had children, and general genetic mutations

 

Thats what the Aes Sedai assume is the case.  While there probably is some merit to that idea, it is not sufficient explanation in itself, because we know there are huge numbers of potential channelers in the population at large that have no idea that they can learn.  Rand and Egwene have been actively recruiting for only a very short time, and have already found thousands.  So, the gene pool of channelers who were reproducing was not nearly as depleted as the Aes Sedai thought.

 

The Pattern seems to have a way of determining what abilities are available when, and stopping an ability that a soul potentially possesses if that is not an ability associated with that Age.  The following is from Tor's Q&A with RJ:

 

Week 13 Question: If a wolfbrother is reborn in another Age, will he be a wolfbrother again? In other words, is being a wolfbrother a trait related to the soul? Can women be wolfbrothers?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Women certainly can be wolfbrothers, though the term would be wolfsisters. A wolfbrother or wolfsister reborn in another age would only be a wolfbrother or wolfsister again if that were possible in that Age. The ability to speak with wolves doesn't exist in every Age. In the "current" Age, it is a fairly new thing, appearing not too long ago. There are tales of it, sometimes just vague stories of people who supposedly "can talk to animals," without necessarily mentioning wolves, but remember that Elyas's ability was taken, at least by some Aes Sedai, as a sign that he was linked to the Shadow.

 

Foudn here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152 (emphasis mine, of course)

 

The key phrase to me is "if that were possible in that Age".  It is another example of Jordan associating different abilities with different Ages.  It seems likely to me that the same thing applies to channeling.  We know it is an ability related to both the soul and the body.  The genetic component of channeling probably stays in the human population all the time, in every Age.  The Pattern just blocks the soul component from expressing that ability.

 

So, it is my opinion that the Pattern has already begun progressively blocking out the ability to channel from the human populace (hence the drop from 3% to 1%), and that shortly after the beginning of the Fourth Age, it will cease entirely (keeping in mind that, in terms of Ages, "shortly" can mean "several centuries").

[Luckers]

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I am suprised it is as high as 1%, I woulda thought it was around .1% maybe.  i.e.  1 in 1000.

 

There are apparently an awful lot of people who have the ability to learn, but never do it.  The percentage of the population that actually become channelers is probably much closer to .1% than 1%.

 

Indeed. You've also got to remember that of that one percent alot are going to be like Morgase--who, if she hadn't been a noble of such high standing would never have passed in training beyond the initial testing.

 

Quote

the population drop of channelers is due to both the culling of the male gene when it does show up, and that the AS hold themselves Aloof, rarely wed, and thus rarely have children, so their line stops with them, meaning that hte pasing of hte gene is relegated to people who where never found to channel, or from carriers of the gene where it was too recessive or to not-dominant enough and they had children, and general genetic mutations

 

Thats what the Aes Sedai assume is the case.  While there probably is some merit to that idea, it is not sufficient explanation in itself, because we know there are huge numbers of potential channelers in the population at large that have no idea that they can learn.  Rand and Egwene have been actively recruiting for only a very short time, and have already found thousands.  So, the gene pool of channelers who were reproducing was not nearly as depleted as the Aes Sedai thought

 

I agree completely. Indeed, whilst i think there is an argument for the effect of the lack of interbreeding between male AND female channelers, I personally feel that there is no real basis for the Aes Sedai's argument. Yes, Aes Sedai don't often breed, and yes, the Kin have strict rules regaurding such, but as Robert shows a vast majority of the channeling pool never manifest their ability or even think of channeling, and thus remain in the normal human gene pool. And as for male channelers--there is even less basis for that argument than the one about Aes Sedai breeding. All male learners remain in the normal gene pool, and concidering that male channelers usually spark into their twenties, and given the type of society, even the sparkers stand a strong chance of already having children before they sparked.

 

 

[Tyrell]

Indeed. You've also got to remember that of that one percent alot are going to be like Morgase--who, if she hadn't been a noble of such high standing would never have passed in training beyond the initial testing.

 

Isn't there a quote somewhere where RJ states that channeling strength follows the standard normal distribution? (So Morgase is just as likely to occur as Lanfear, if we assume Morgase is as weak as possibe and Lanfear as strong as possible).

[Wayhey]

 

It seems very likely to me, personally, that Myrdraal are what happens when the human gene for channeling breeds true. The peculiarity of their nature, their ability to sense the Power, their ability to link....

 

Nice one!  That makes complete sense.

[ignavus1223]

I always thought Myrdraal were offspring where a specific series of corrupted human genes were paired up, as opposed to paired up with animal genes.  But the channeling gene is an interesting point...