Why does the Shadow fear the Stedding?

[Achmed]

Trollocs and Myrrdraal avoid the stedding...  Why?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Its probably ... probably because the True Power was involved in their creation, and the stedding probably cut off access to the True Power the same way they do it to the One Power.

 

Probably.

[cloglord]

I'm not sure that I believe that the stedding were constructs of the OP, however if they were, I think that it makes a good explaination.

 

Take for instance the discordance between shadowspawn, constructs of the op, and the traveling weave.  They don't mix, and the weave has the effect of killing the shadowspawn.  I have noted a similar discordance in other OP constructs.  Remember the greenman calls the branches of Avendesora, "ungentle." 

 

Or it could just be that there is some racial memory that tells them that it isn't a good idea to go storming into the home of hundreds of 10 foot tall creatures that are likely to get pissed at shadowspawn tresspassers.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm sorry ... I wasn't saying that stedding are constructs of the One Power.  I was saying that Trollocs and Myrddraal are constructs, in part, of the True Power. 

 

Since stedding cut off access to the One Power, they almost certainly cut off access to the True Power as well.  (Because the ability to draw on the True Power seems to be directly linked to the ability to draw on the One Power)  Losing that access could make constructs of the True Power anywhere from "a little uncomfortable" to "dead".

 

Your example of the Green Man is apt, however.  The effect of chora trees is not unlike the peaceful feeling associated with the stedding.  The production of that effect may cause some sort of interference (although certainly not enough to prevent Rand from channeling) that makes constructs of the Power (One or True) uncomfortable.  The effect could be more pronounced in a full stedding.

[Guest silver89]

It could also be that they fell how the otherside lives and are afraid of a peace that they have never known.

 

 

 

[Catsohori]

What exactly was the importance of the Chora trees in AoL?

[RobertAlexWillis]

They were planted in large numbers throughout at least the main cities (and probably smaller ones as well).  The reason is never explicitly stated, but one would assume (or at least, I assume) that it was to provide a peaceful, satsified atmosphere throughout the city generally.

[Gentled Ben]

And to provide a home for squirrels, who stored more and better nuts with less effort than their 3rd Age counterparts.  :)

[Mr Ares]

And to provide a home for squirrels, who stored more and better nuts with less effort than their 3rd Age counterparts.  :)

Indeed - modern day squirrels are but half-trained squirrel children by comparison.

[cloglord]

I disagree, there are several species of Squirrels that seem to have adapted themselves to specific purposes.  The Brown squirrels, devoted to the search for lost nut lore, the Gray Squirrels and their love of the law, and the Red Squirrels who have devoted themselves to the hunt for and destruction of rabid wombats.

 

Don't forget that the Red, Brown, and Gray Squirrels of the third age vehemently deny the existence of Black Squirrels....

[bcxanth]

I'm sorry ... I wasn't saying that stedding are constructs of the One Power.  I was saying that Trollocs and Myrddraal are constructs, in part, of the True Power. 

 

Since stedding cut off access to the One Power, they almost certainly cut off access to the True Power as well.  (Because the ability to draw on the True Power seems to be directly linked to the ability to draw on the One Power)  Losing that access could make constructs of the True Power anywhere from "a little uncomfortable" to "dead".

 

Your example of the Green Man is apt, however.  The effect of chora trees is not unlike the peaceful feeling associated with the stedding.  The production of that effect may cause some sort of interference (although certainly not enough to prevent Rand from channeling) that makes constructs of the Power (One or True) uncomfortable.  The effect could be more pronounced in a full stedding.

 

My only thought there is that how do we know it would really effect them as far as to kill them?  I can see making them uncomfortable, but dead?  The reason I ask though is because Moir and Lan seem pretty certain that Trollocks could be driven into a Stedding, but it would take allot. And if anyone knows that kind of thing for a certainty it would be those two. Especially Lan. So it seems to me like it'd be pointless to drive them in if they're just going to die, yet it seems possible it's been tried at least once.

[RobertAlexWillis]

My only thought there is that how do we know it would really effect them as far as to kill them?  I can see making them uncomfortable, but dead?

 

We don't.  Thats why I said, "Losing that access could make constructs of the True Power anywhere from "a little uncomfortable" to "dead"."  The effect could be anywhere in that range.  Since we haven't seen it, we don't know.

 

Truthfully, we don't even know if the reason I gave is the real one or not.  We haven't seen enough to reach a solid conclusion.  I think what I proposed makes sense, but I certainly wouldn't say "Thus it is."

 

[Achmed]

Sorta like Shadar Lagoth, uncomfortable, yes, dead, possibly.

[Nelal Hurcran]

I disagree, there are several species of Squirrels that seem to have adapted themselves to specific purposes.  The Brown squirrels, devoted to the search for lost nut lore, the Gray Squirrels and their love of the law, and the Red Squirrels who have devoted themselves to the hunt for and destruction of rabid wombats.

 

And don’t forget the Green Squirrels, constantly defending there trees and nut hordes from those who would do them harm. Most of those speak in a Scottish accent.

[bcxanth]

My only thought there is that how do we know it would really effect them as far as to kill them?  I can see making them uncomfortable, but dead?

 

We don't.  Thats why I said, "Losing that access could make constructs of the True Power anywhere from "a little uncomfortable" to "dead"."  The effect could be anywhere in that range.  Since we haven't seen it, we don't know.

 

Truthfully, we don't even know if the reason I gave is the real one or not.  We haven't seen enough to reach a solid conclusion.  I think what I proposed makes sense, but I certainly wouldn't say "Thus it is."

 

I agree it makes sense. :)  I was just wondering if you had any thoughts as to why it might go as far as deadly.  But if there's nothing specific then at least I know I didn't miss anything. :)

[lou]

I disagree, there are several species of Squirrels that seem to have adapted themselves to specific purposes.  The Brown squirrels, devoted to the search for lost nut lore, the Gray Squirrels and their love of the law, and the Red Squirrels who have devoted themselves to the hunt for and destruction of rabid wombats.

 

And don’t forget the Green Squirrels, constantly defending there trees and nut hordes from those who would do them harm. Most of those speak in a Scottish accent.

 

you forget the flying squirrels, a lost Talent or a new discovery?

[Darth_Andrea]

I disagree, there are several species of Squirrels that seem to have adapted themselves to specific purposes.  The Brown squirrels, devoted to the search for lost nut lore, the Gray Squirrels and their love of the law, and the Red Squirrels who have devoted themselves to the hunt for and destruction of rabid wombats.

 

And don’t forget the Green Squirrels, constantly defending there trees and nut hordes from those who would do them harm. Most of those speak in a Scottish accent.

 

you forget the flying squirrels, a lost Talent or a new discovery?

 

 

Lets not forget those who couldn't be trained any farther in the White Tree, and couldn't become full Squirrles and had to leave as only Chipmunks.

 

Darth_Andrea

 

[Gentled Ben]

The subtle beauty of Cloglord's squirrel-ajah post was that there are actually red, brown, and gray squirrels.  ;)

I'm torn between LMAO a the clever posts that have followed my joke, and feeling remorse that I've sorta-ruined an otherwise serious discussion.

*weighs it out*

*chooses laughter*  :D

[stoneface]

I like the squirrels!!!  The squirrels may be what is keeping this thread from becoming the typical endless repetition of restated arguments so typical of other posts.  Hopefully.

 

Seriously, though, there seems to be confusion between the Shadow and Shadowspawn.  Trollocs are driven by Myrdraal, and somebody else has to drive the Myrdraal to enter the stedding.  OK, so shadowspawn can enter a stedding, but they don't like it; no evidence that it is slow death, mere discomfort (or pain), or a loss of ability to control (the latter implies the need to give directions that will be obeyed even if the control lapses for a while), or fear of the Ogier.

 

Gates kill Shadowspawn immediately.  Why not use Deathgates as cutting weapons (half a trolloc here, a chunk of Fade there...) rather than sending the whole trolloc on a fatal journey?  So, comparison between Gates and steddings are not useful; comparison to the Ways is.  Trollocs also had to be driven (controlled) to go into the Ways (for this topic, let's skip the argument about whether or not the use of Gates changed in the series).  Trollocs obviously don't like the Ways, for good reason, but there is no evidence of physical discomfort (just abject terror of the Machin Shin).

 

Are the Shadowspawn actually constructs of the Shadow?  There are references to the Myrdraal being offspring of trollocs, although this seems bizarre.  If trollocs are bred, then are they still constructs?  Do they sense the OP?

 

My best guesses:  Shadowspawn do not like the stedding because (1) the Ogier are dangerous foes, and (2) that peaceful, happy feeling makes them very uncomfortable.  I don't know about the effect of the stedding on control by the Myrdraal, but I expect no direct effect.

[bcxanth]

Seriously, though, there seems to be confusion between the Shadow and Shadowspawn.  Trollocs are driven by Myrdraal, and somebody else has to drive the Myrdraal to enter the stedding.  OK, so shadowspawn can enter a stedding, but they don't like it; no evidence that it is slow death, mere discomfort (or pain), or a loss of ability to control (the latter implies the need to give directions that will be obeyed even if the control lapses for a while), or fear of the Ogier.

 

Exactly, which is why it's pretty much impossible to really answer the original question. We just don't have enough information, so we can simply make educated guesses.

 

Gates kill Shadowspawn immediately.  Why not use Deathgates as cutting weapons (half a trolloc here, a chunk of Fade there...) rather than sending the whole trolloc on a fatal journey?  So, comparison between Gates and steddings are not useful; comparison to the Ways is.  Trollocs also had to be driven (controlled) to go into the Ways (for this topic, let's skip the argument about whether or not the use of Gates changed in the series).  Trollocs obviously don't like the Ways, for good reason, but there is no evidence of physical discomfort (just abject terror of the Machin Shin).

 

Which is much like their fear of Shadar Logoth. The only difference is that in the Ways they have the possibility of attracting Machin Sin, but also the chance of making it through alive. While in SL, if they are there past sunset, they have the certainty they will die, and die horribly.  So I imagine it's actually probably easier to get them into the Ways then into SL.  Just my opinion of course. ;)

 

Are the Shadowspawn actually constructs of the Shadow?  There are references to the Myrdraal being offspring of trollocs, although this seems bizarre.  If trollocs are bred, then are they still constructs?  Do they sense the OP?

 

Trollocs are constructs in that they are a twisted blend of animal and homan stock that was blended using the OP, though possibly the TP might have been used as well.  I'm sure there's a definite answer to which it was, but I can't recall it right now. :)  Fades are some kind of strange throwback toward the human part of the Trolloc genome that Aginor never tried for and never really understood. Because of that we can imply that Fades were never constructs but were always bred, and probably without a way to predict if they'd successfully get a Fade or not. If they could reliably reproduce the outcome the Shadow would have armies of Fades and the Trollocs would just be breeding stock.

 

Back to Trollocs though it seems that only Aginor, and possibly some assistants, were the only ones creating the Shadowspawn, and they'd only have been able to do so much. Therefore each breed of creature that was created, if they were intended to have large amounts of them, would have to be created with some way to breed and reproduce without the need to be created using whichever Power was used. Fades, because they were never intentionally created, seem to have no way to reproduce naturally and are only created by the mutation of Trolloc offspring.

[Gentled Ben]

So in other words, even though they breed, they're still constructs of the OP because the very first breeding pairs of trollocs were constructs, right?

[RobertAlexWillis]

They are partially constructs of the One Power and the True Power both, because the genetic changes that were made in their ancestors were made using both the One Power and the True Power. 

 

Myrddraal are genetic throwbacks to the human side of the Trolloc genetic code, but deeply tainted, of course, by the True Power.

 

Although Aginor neither intended nor fully understood the Myrddraal, I think Shai'tan did.  He may have influenced their creation as the beginning of the Shaidar Haran project, as well as creating a way to make the Trollocs obedient.

[Vassili]

My guess is that the Stedding have a shielding affect against all background/cosmic influence, and this includes ties to the DO as well as the OP and TP. Since Trollocs and especially the black coated eyeless things are tied to the DO, they may not like being shielded from him.

 

How do you spell mydraal? seriously?

[BrainFireBob]

Personally, I've suspected ever since the Book of Translation was revealed that the stedding are little "pieces" of the Ogier's home dimension, either simultaneously overlapping reality or "translated" from their own home plane of existence. I also suspect, though I can't back it, that in their home dimension, the One Power isn't separable into its constituent parts. Regardless, Shadowspawn don't fully belong in reality, and thus should belong even less in an alternate reality.

[TheRedSon]

Maybe in the stedding Trollocs get the longing  ;D.