Where are they all?

[trakand01]

Hi

 

I'm re-reading the series for about the 5th time but after a several year break. My intention is to drag it out so that i finish book 11 as AmoL is published and can finish the entire series as one.

 

I'm on book 5 (Taim has just turned up) and I've read the prologue which portrays the meeting between Demandred, Mesaana, Semirhage and Greandal. I suddenly thought, where are they all? Aran'gar and Osan'gar have just been released - are these Aginor and Balthamel?

 

So, this is what I know (or have remembered) so far myself;

 

Aginor - Aran/Osan'gar

Asmodean - Mysteriously murdered

Balthamel - Aran/Osan'gar

Be'lal - destroyed by Rand in the Stone of Tear??

Demandred - dont know

Graendal - dont know

Ishamael - Killed by Rand over Falme, in the battle in the sky (claimed to be Ba'alzamon but Rand believed it to be Ishamael)

Lanfear - gone through the doorway with Moiraine

Mesaana - not sure (from the prologue i'd say she was in the Tower?)

Moghedien - in Salidar (Marigan)

Rahvin - WAS Gaebril, balefired by Rand in Caemlyn

Sammael - ruling Illian

Semirhage - dont know

 

Am I right so far? So I cant place;

 

Demandred

Greandal

Mesaana

Semhirage

 

My theories are;

 

The Dark Lord asked Demandred if he wanted to be his 'right hand man' - where better for him than under the trust of the Dragon - could he be Taim?

 

Graendal - no idea

 

Mesaana - Alviarin? Galina?

 

Semhirage - no idea - I presume her to be dark-skinned, could she be in actual fact one of the Seanchan (Tuon is black although I'm not suggesting it to be her), or a Tairen?

 

Aran'gar / Osan'gar - I seem to remember the female one (Osan'gar) getting in with Egwene - is this right? the male one I cant remember.

 

Can you shed some light for me?

[Mr Ares]

Hi

 

I'm re-reading the series for about the 5th time but after a several year break. My intention is to drag it out so that i finish book 11 as AmoL is published and can finish the entire series as one.

 

I'm on book 5 (Taim has just turned up) and I've read the prologue which portrays the meeting between Demandred, Mesaana, Semirhage and Greandal. I suddenly thought, where are they all? Aran'gar and Osan'gar have just been released - are these Aginor and Balthamel?

 

So, this is what I know (or have remembered) so far myself;

 

Aginor - Aran/Osan'gar

Asmodean - Mysteriously murdered

Balthamel - Aran/Osan'gar

Be'lal - destroyed by Rand in the Stone of Tear??

Demandred - dont know

Graendal - dont know

Ishamael - Killed by Rand over Falme, in the battle in the sky (claimed to be Ba'alzamon but Rand believed it to be Ishamael)

Lanfear - gone through the doorway with Moiraine

Mesaana - not sure (from the prologue i'd say she was in the Tower?)

Moghedien - in Salidar (Marigan)

Rahvin - WAS Gaebril, balefired by Rand in Caemlyn

Sammael - ruling Illian

Semirhage - dont know

 

Am I right so far? So I cant place;

 

Demandred

Greandal

Mesaana

Semhirage

 

My theories are;

 

The Dark Lord asked Demandred if he wanted to be his 'right hand man' - where better for him than under the trust of the Dragon - could he be Taim?

 

Graendal - no idea

 

Mesaana - Alviarin? Galina?

 

Semhirage - no idea - I presume her to be dark-skinned, could she be in actual fact one of the Seanchan (Tuon is black although I'm not suggesting it to be her), or a Tairen?

 

Aran'gar / Osan'gar - I seem to remember the female one (Osan'gar) getting in with Egwene - is this right? the male one I cant remember.

 

Can you shed some light for me?

Aginor - Osan'gar, in Black Tower as Corlam Dashiva

Asmodean - Mysteriously murdered, probably by Graendal

Balthamel - Aran'gar, in Salidar as Halima

Be'lal - destroyed by Rand in the Stone of Tear

Demandred - don't know, not Mazrim Taim (definately), or any character seen "on screen" (apparently)

Graendal - Arad Doman, as Lady Basene

Ishamael - Killed by Rand over Falme, in the battle in the sky (claimed to be Ba'alzamon but Rand believed it to be Ishamael), later returns as Moridin

Lanfear - gone through the doorway with Moiraine, later returns as the slightly weaker Cyndane

Mesaana - Tower, probably as Danelle Sedai

Moghedien - in Salidar (Marigan)

Rahvin - WAS Gaebril, balefired by Rand in Caemlyn

Sammael - ruling Illian as Lord Brend

Semirhage - Anath, Tuon's truthspeaker

Helpful?

[trakand01]

Yeah that's great, thanks!! Whilst I always assumed Moiraine wasnt dead (I've not read book 11 yet) I didnt know Lanfear returns as Cyndane. Quite obvious, isnt it?! I've just started a friend reading the series and Rand, Hurin et al have come across Cyndane in the 'other world' with the Grolm. Its killing me not telling her who she is.

 

Thanks for the help - is it me being unobservant or have some of them not been mentioned to me yet (Aran'gar and Osan'gar obviously)?

[Majsju]

Demandreds whereabouts are still unknown. That he should be Taim has been officially debunked.

 

Graendal is posing as an old lady in Arad Doman.

 

Meesana is in the White Tower, most likely posing as an Aes Sedai. A popular belief is that she is Danelle, though there are still not enough evidence. Definitly not Alvhiarin or Galina though.

 

Semirhage is (or rather, was until recently) posing as Anath, Tuons Truthspeaker.

 

Balthamel came back as Aran'gar, who infiltrated Salidar using the name Halima.

 

Aginor came back as Osan'gar, who infiltrated the Black Tower using the name Dashiva.

[bcxanth]

Ishy was not killed at Falme, just wounded. Ishy was not officially killed until Rand took him out with Callendor in the Stone.

[Luckers]

Just for clarification, but Be'lal was killed by Moiraine in the Stone of Tear, and Aran'gar (aka Halima) was uncovered by Romanda, and is no longer in Salidar--its suggested that she would have gone to join Graendal in Arad Domon, but its simply unknown... Delana is probably with her.

 

Also, the woman Rand encounters in the parallel world is in fact Lanfear, not Cyndane. Cyndane is Lanfear in her recycled body, and doesn't appear until, i believe, book seven or eight. The assumed name Lanfear is using in that scene is Selene.

[Grasshopper]

Please give me the official negative on Demandred not being Taim again?  I have found nothing in the books to debunk this one. What everyone is going on is Jordan saying "no" during a press conference. I still feel that he just wants to set us up.  Taim is such a Foresaken.

[Mr Ares]

Please give me the official negative on Demandred not being Taim again?  I have found nothing in the books to debunk this one. What everyone is going on is Jordan saying "no" during a press conference. I still feel that he just wants to set us up.  Taim is such a Foresaken.

RJ saying something is enough for most of us, because unless you assume he is lying then he is the supreme authority on the books. And in the books, Taim and Demandred both give the same order separately to Kisman and co. in WH ch. 22, and at the Cleansing Demandred doesn't recognise Damer Flinn, but Taim certainly would. Unless you want to call the author a liar, Taim is not Demandred

[Luckers]

Insert Quote

Please give me the official negative on Demandred not being Taim again?  I have found nothing in the books to debunk this one. What everyone is going on is Jordan saying "no" during a press conference. I still feel that he just wants to set us up.  Taim is such a Foresaken.

 

Firstly, RJ stating in no uncertain terms, no less then eight times, that taim is not Demandred is indeed canon proof. Sorry.

 

However, if you wish evidence in the books (a pointless desire concidering that once again it is simply RJ's word, so if you fell idiotic enough to dismiss one than you can dismiss the other) then the instance in which Demandred does not recognise Damer Flinn is absolute proof against Taim being Demandred, since Taim knows Damer Flinn well.

 

Sorry.

 

 

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Yeah that's great, thanks!! Whilst I always assumed Moiraine wasnt dead (I've not read book 11 yet) I didnt know Lanfear returns as Cyndane. Quite obvious, isnt it?! I've just started a friend reading the series and Rand, Hurin et al have come across Cyndane in the 'other world' with the Grolm. Its killing me not telling her who she is.

 

Thanks for the help - is it me being unobservant or have some of them not been mentioned to me yet (Aran'gar and Osan'gar obviously)?

 

No, rather you have been quite observant. The fact that you figured out that Semi was with the Seanchan means you've paid careful attention to every detail. :)

[trakand01]

Just for clarification, but Be'lal was killed by Moiraine in the Stone of Tear, and Aran'gar (aka Halima) was uncovered by Romanda, and is no longer in Salidar--its suggested that she would have gone to join Graendal in Arad Domon, but its simply unknown... Delana is probably with her.

 

Also, the woman Rand encounters in the parallel world is in fact Lanfear, not Cyndane. Cyndane is Lanfear in her recycled body, and doesn't appear until, i believe, book seven or eight. The assumed name Lanfear is using in that scene is Selene.

 

Thanks, as I said, I'm only up to book 6 so Halima hasnt even got to Salidar yet, let alone been discovered. And yes, I know Cyndane is Lanfear, that's what i'm struggling to keep secret from myfriend - I had mistaken Selene for Cyndane but am aware both are Lanfear.

 

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

Sarah

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Hey Trakand, are you a fan of the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Just looking at your sig...

[dlan4327]

Most of the character's have been pointed out correctly except for Ishamael, he isn't dead. He's been respawned as Moridin & is the dark one's Nae' Blis.

[trakand01]

Hey Trakand, are you a fan of the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Just looking at your sig...

 

Hi there,

 

Yes I am, although its a few years since i read them, and i havent read the last 2 books yet. I wanted to finish tEotW first then concentrate on the Sword of Truth. The Maidens are great, but the Mord Sith are excellent.

 

Sarah

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Yeah. Same here, except I am only halfway through the Sword of Truth series.

 

And correct me if I am wrong, but Confessor, the last book in the series, hasn't come out yet.

[Charlz Guybon]

Please give me the official negative on Demandred not being Taim again?  I have found nothing in the books to debunk this one. What everyone is going on is Jordan saying "no" during a press conference. I still feel that he just wants to set us up.  Taim is such a Foresaken.

 

While I believe Taim is a Forsaken, I believe he is the first of a modern breed. There were many more Forsaken during the War of Power, than were sealed in the bore by the Lews Therin and the Hundred Comapanions. There were at least 29, for before Moghedien realized Moridin was Ishamael reincarnated, she told him he should be honored to use the True Power for "Only twenty-nine others have ever been granted...[the opportunity]"  Certainly any who were granted the ability to use the True Power must be counted among the Forsaken, and doubtlessly others as well who where not quite that favored.

 

In a time when the Chosen can not easily be replaced, and where they die, not at the hands of each other as in the War of Power, but at the hands of the forces of Light, suitable replacements are certain to find quick promotion. Taim is the only darkfriend with the qualifications that we know of. He is quite skilled in the use of the power and nearly as powerful as Rand, and thus likely as strong as Sammael and perhaps even Demandred. If any of Third Ager is going to be made Chosen, it is he.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Please give me the official negative on Demandred not being Taim again?  I have found nothing in the books to debunk this one. What everyone is going on is Jordan saying "no" during a press conference. I still feel that he just wants to set us up.  Taim is such a Foresaken.

 

It's here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

 

In a series of Q&A published by Tor Books (Jordan's US pulisher) we read:

 

Week 4 Question: At recent book signing following the release of Crossroads of Twilight, it was reported that you confirmed that the Forsaken Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, who was introduced to Rand at the beginning of Lord of Chaos. Have you confirmed that Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, leader of the Black Tower?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Yes. Demandred has never posed as Mazrim Taim. All right, those of who fell over from the shock of a simple, straightforward answer can get up off the floor now. Sometimes, simple and straightforward can be the most devious of all, as any student of Aes Sedai will tell you. <Maniacal laughter from the shadows!>

 

Demandred is not Taim.  (And, just in case you, like some others, are going to try to latch on to the word "posed" and try to make the argument that Demandred isn't "posing" as Taim, he actually IS Taim, don't bother.  Mazrim Taim was alive and known before Demandred was free.  Therefore, if Demandred is in his place now, he is, by definition, posing as Taim.  Since Jordan said he's not, that means he's not.)

[Majsju]

And if one quote is not enough...

 

Emma: Was Taimandred a deliberate ruse to lead your readers astray, or were you surprised (by the all of the theories connecting Taim to Demandred)?

 

Jordan: I was surprised…but I wasn’t going to disabuse you of it for a while, I like to watch you squirm.

 

 

http://p079.ezboard.com/Second-QampA--Saturday/ftheorylandfrm30.showMessage?topicID=1.topic

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Boy this gets tedious, doesn't it?

 

There is always someone who thinks Taim is Demandred, even when there are numerous quotes disproving this, in no uncertain terms.

 

And they always require proof. God, they should look for themselves, instead of making us do the work for them.

 

Might as well put the Question of the Week page on bookmark.

 

In fact, it would be a good idea to just post a huge sticky on every board that says "DEMANDRED IS NOT TAIM."

[trakand01]

Yeah. Same here, except I am only halfway through the Sword of Truth series.

 

And correct me if I am wrong, but Confessor, the last book in the series, hasn't come out yet.

 

Hi Yes that's right, I was referring to the last 2 published books.

 

thanks

 

Sarah

[Digbe]

2 questions:

 

Semirrhage is posing as/was Anath, Tuons Truthspeaker-- Was it semirrhage that foretold Tuon of her future marriage to mat? (Sorry, its been a looong time since the read)So she has the ability of foretelling?

 

What is the difference between the One True Power and saidar or saidan?  I remember a pretty bad-ass description about a little digital dot that migrated horizontally from the lateral to medial side of Moridin's sclera(whites of eyes for the non-optomologists out there)

 

True power- Does it make you stronger?  Give you a wider "bandwidth" to the source?  Or is it more like a wifi hookup to the power in the sense that it is freeflowing all around you while everyone else has to dialup to embrace?

 

Since men are stronger, i guess they may have highspeed cable saidan and the women are left with the walmart connect saidar(sorry ladies, but it does seem like you have the better search engines and get to google the power, while the men sit around with their hand in their you know what waiting for jeeves)

[Majsju]

It was a damane who had the foretellin gs about Tuons marriage. Semirhage posed as a truthspeaker, not a damane, so she had to hide her ability to channel.

 

Saidin and saidar are the two halves of the One Power. In general, men are stronger, women are more skilled at making weaves, which balances them quite well, except for those freakishly strong like Rand.

 

The True Power is a nasty thing that can only be used with the DOs direct permission. The exact nature of it is junknown, but it appears to be the DOs twisted version of the OP. Unlike OP, it can not be detected by anyone other than the one making the weaves. I don't think it's stronger, only different. And since it's the DOs own power, probably more suitable for destruction and mayhem than the OP.

Using TP a lot gives the user Saa, the black specks in moridins eyes, and before the recycling Ishys burning eyes and mouth.

 

 

[Digbe]

So TP might be considered a synthetic device and so it would have its vulnerabilties but what are they?

 

It seemed like  one of the Forsaken kinda' goggled @ moridin almost in jealously, but then said that is was even more addicting than saidar/saidan

 

coke turned crack?

 

did DO make it... or does the DO the only one that has the intell about it.  Meaning, was it a synthetic genetic enhancement made by us in this time era to avoid the taint?

 

can moridin still channel saidan but prefer the crack-type pwoer now instead?

 

 

[Majsju]

We basically don't know anything about the nature of TP. Only that you must have the DOs direct permission to use it, so obviously he has full control over it.

 

Moridin can still channel normally, but prefers TP, much because it's extremely addictive, but obviously noone being able to sense what you're doing, or even that you're embracing it has it's advantages. Downsides other than the Saa is increasing madness and eventually death, but Moridin doesn't seem to care, even though he was given a second chance.

[Digbe]

Forgive me, but I missed it.. What is Saa? (eye-thing?)