[GAME OVER - TOWN WINS] Dragon and Swift

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 11:50 AM, Shad_ said:

Oh

No, if the lost wolf peeks green then Mentalist has no wolf utility, so we'd be back to the only potential for messing with Darthe's claim as a bus driver.

Weird to make the most difficult to read wolf slot a godfather, but I guess it does prevent concerns like mine at least.

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Tbf I also didn’t realize this. I guess we could ask for mod clarification.

Shad_ · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 8:54 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Shad is starting to get suspicious with his early defense of SD. That he is shifting slightly more to believing me (my take) is actually making me worry more about him (and to a lesser extent my SD read, tbh) as it's feeling like he is positioning to go "well, it wasn't SD, so Turin is next". He would word it better of course.

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For what it's worth, in a flipless world I would all in on a zero bus powerwolf agenda because no one would ever know I'm wrong. Might play through the motions of second guessing myself to look genuine but I would still come out of it hard defending him.

Which is kind of what it would look like I'm doing from your pov right now if you're town, right?

Your head's in a villagery place AND you were proactive about explaining why Darthe isn't a realistic third option when, if you are a wolf, I gave you a golden opportunity to expand the POE.

All SD has going for him is passive. Maybe he never got a chance to fake solve because he has been public enemy #1 since the game started? Maybe he was coached to do things he normally wouldn't last game? I dunno. Does it make sense for him to be paired with Peace? I dunno that either, would have to ugh reread things.

But I'd rather be fooled because a wolf played well than because a wolf played wolfy but did so slightly different from last time.

Going to post to see the vc and then I am JOINING THE CAUSE unless it's hammer.

Shad_ · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:45 PM, Darthe said:

Tbf I also didn’t realize this. I guess we could ask for mod clarification.

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"19. Symp – A Symp is a player who is aligned with Town, but who wins with the Mafia. This player will be given the names of the Mafia members, but the Mafia team will not be given the Symp’s name"

The verbiage heavily implies what Turin is saying.

Shad_ · June 2

UNVOTE

VOTE: SINISTERDEATH

What a world lol

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 11:53 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

One step at a time. I am sussing Darthe on his behaviour, and that doesn't change remarkably with anything about Peace.

This is sketching me out. I accepted there seems no chance at all that Darthe is not the Mentalist.

Even Ithi is just assuming he has some big brain reason for acting the way he is acting and the fact she doesn't know what it is feels horribly like her acceptance of DPR's behaviour in the Action Hero game. But Ithi appears to be an unCC'd townie so.... yeah, I don't know.

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This stood out as different from the others in that it’s actually some attempt to solve.

2 questions.

1) how do you parse separating a player from their role when judging their alignment?

2) contextually, you’re giving ithi a town pass and trying to get yourself one based on your roles, but mine is ignored in this. Explain that bit of mental gymnastics please.

Turin Turambar · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:20 PM, Darthe said:

2 and 3 are the same thing.

itd be wild to lie about these, I think. And I didn’t, fwiw. Doesn’t serve any benefit, my reads aren’t so strong that I’d assume I could snipe that.

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No.

2. only required your result to be wrong due to a possibility of a busdriver. It could be wrong in fault to you. This is basically "force majeur", or circumstances beyond your control affected your ability.

3. Is you actively lying about the view. I think that is highly unlikely unless the numbers mean that mafia could win tomorrow some way that I don't currently see.

The fact you aren't seeing the difference is troubling though.

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:45 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I'm sorry but this does not mean anything to me. If I cannot empathize with your actions, I can only assume you are mafia-aligned. This could of course be my failing, but there is not a lot I can do about that. My failings are after all integral to me.

I feel you are being obstructionist and destructive and show no real attempt to hunt wolves. Your case on me seems to simply be you know I'm a wolf, I know I'm not. It is that simple, since you give no reasons for your opinion that only leaves the motivation of a mafia victory. I don't have anything else to work with because you haven't given me anything else to work with.

I am, as Ithi put it, in a spiral of confusion and paranoia, and there are few sturdy things to hold onto. But one of them is your total lack of a case on me. I simply cannot let it go unless you can give something else to hold onto.

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You don’t have to empathize to get a read. I disagree with Ithi on nearly everything this game and she’s probably town. That’s called rational thinking.

As for the concept of a case on you which you’ve latched on to, I don’t need one. Be mad. Hell, self vote. I encourage it.

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:46 PM, Shad_ said:

For what it's worth, in a flipless world I would all in on a zero bus powerwolf agenda because no one would ever know I'm wrong. Might play through the motions of second guessing myself to look genuine but I would still come out of it hard defending him.

Which is kind of what it would look like I'm doing from your pov right now if you're town, right?

Your head's in a villagery place AND you were proactive about explaining why Darthe isn't a realistic third option when, if you are a wolf, I gave you a golden opportunity to expand the POE.

All SD has going for him is passive. Maybe he never got a chance to fake solve because he has been public enemy #1 since the game started? Maybe he was coached to do things he normally wouldn't last game? I dunno. Does it make sense for him to be paired with Peace? I dunno that either, would have to ugh reread things.

But I'd rather be fooled because a wolf played well than because a wolf played wolfy but did so slightly different from last time.

Going to post to see the vc and then I am JOINING THE CAUSE unless it's hammer.

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Yeah Seph is town.

if Turins a wolf he has outplayed SD by a country mile.

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:48 PM, Shad_ said:

"19. Symp – A Symp is a player who is aligned with Town, but who wins with the Mafia. This player will be given the names of the Mafia members, but the Mafia team will not be given the Symp’s name"

The verbiage heavily implies what Turin is saying.

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It does… alarming.

I’m curious if that means the simp can’t be recruited or etc. there must be some drawback here, or the wolves are being compensated in more ways. I think my n0 coroner play has made this game spicier than intended.

Turin Turambar · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:10 PM, Darthe said:

I need a clear read on Ithi. Preferably with some depth.

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Town. Like 85%. She is looking for and at every little thing. If it looks suspicious, she's digging at it. The tenacity is telling for me. The way she went after Tephulis for his Tig stance, the way she clapped back at you. The way she has gone at Peace. These are signs of what I call "the Eye of Ithiron". She can be wrong, but she will just keep steamrolling onto the next thing that hits her radar.

It is a obvious town tell to me. She didn't push nearly as hard at anyone in your game when she was mafia. She made cases but it wasn't the same.

Does that make sense?

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 8:06 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Just like Heavy is gonna Heavy, Derf is gonna Derf, lol.

These are the facts.

Darthe claimed a comparison view of SD and Turin.

The MOD CONFIRMED THE MENTALIST ABILITY WAS USED BY REMOVING IT FROM THE GAME.

No one cc'd being the Mentalist.

Therefore, Darthe is the Mentalist.

So now we have the following options.

1. Darthe's claim is true and his read was true, meaning either SD or Turin is mafia (hint: it's SD)

2. Darthe's claim is true but his results are not. In this case, there is nothing to see here except how people react to the claim.

3. Darthe is lying about his results. It would be high Derf level play to use the ability on someone randomly just to get the MOD confirmation and then make up the result to send town on wild goose chase as several of the more vocal people have expressed vigorous opinions on both of SD and Turin. In this case Darthe is the mafia and is hoping he can use his mafia skills to twist enough to win before he is caught. I doubt this is the case, but this is Darthe, so... I dunno.6

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That isn’t what they say Turin.

did I claim anything other than the results? I’m pretty sure I didn’t. Not trying to be pedantic here, but the distinctions you’re describing isn’t in this post and I didn’t imply it.

separately, I fundamentally disagree with the bus drive theory. It doesn’t make sense for a wolf team to bus drive between themselves and a townie early into this game. They’re creating liability. They’d be better off bus driving between two townies.

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:59 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Town. Like 85%. She is looking for and at every little thing. If it looks suspicious, she's digging at it. The tenacity is telling for me. The way she went after Tephulis for his Tig stance, the way she clapped back at you. The way she has gone at Peace. These are signs of what I call "the Eye of Ithiron". She can be wrong, but she will just keep steamrolling onto the next thing that hits her radar.

It is a obvious town tell to me. She didn't push nearly as hard at anyone in your game when she was mafia. She made cases but it wasn't the same.

Does that make sense?

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Very good, ty.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:50 PM, Darthe said:

This stood out as different from the others in that it’s actually some attempt to solve.

2 questions.

1) how do you parse separating a player from their role when judging their alignment?

2) contextually, you’re giving ithi a town pass and trying to get yourself one based on your roles, but mine is ignored in this. Explain that bit of mental gymnastics please.

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1) The player doesn't matter. Anyone can rand anything. I try to read tone and try to empathize with their positions. Do their actions match the flavour of their posts? Do they seem motivated for a town victory? So while I could say it is all about actions, it is also about how those actions fit the way the person is posting. This is why for example I find over use of memes a pain as they are cookie cutter communication that have no meta-information. At least, not to me, maybe someone can judge gif choice or something but that seems a stretch.

2) Assuming that the cop/doc roles would not start in mafia hands, Gud and Ithi are unCC'd town. That assumption may bite us, but it seems a reasonable one. I'm not asking for a free pass, but I think my role was Town one, and I would think most people lean that way. Sure, keep me at arm's length, don't accept everything without criticism. I admit I wasn't thinking about the Symp when I claimed - all I can offer is the sincerity of my play as surety against that. Which brings me to your claim, it just doesn't counteract my read on how you have been playing. Your effect on the game seems to be entirely contrary to Town's best interests. That may be due to my reads being spectacularly wrong, but I can hardly set them aside and use yours, not least as you have me as definite mafia. Therefore I can only work on the assumption that regardless of your claim, you are the symp or mafia.

Ithillian Turambar · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:32 PM, Gudrean said:

that would be hilarious. wish we did have Zander!

Ithi what are your thoughts on the theory of the bus driver causing the mentalists results to be swapped? I admit it's a mind screw for me and I think you are good as clear town, so I'm honestly looking at your answer to this.

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Is this like that magic door quiz from Labyrinth?

If there is a Mafia team Bus Driver, and they swapped one of their Team with a Town, then Darthe would have had to look at a Town to get the Mafia result.

His thing just comes up as same or different, right? But I'm gonna use Town or Mafia for ease.

If he had looked at a Mafia, would he have not got a Town result? So if Sinister is Mafia and got swapped he would show as Town. If Turin is Mafia he would show as Town. I think Bus Driver involvement would be more likely to get a Town Town... unless both of them are Mafia and they could only do a swap on one of them.

And I think the Siren is likely to be a Mafia role, so they would not want to swap that one. I think Teph is/was mafia so that only leaves prob one Mafia to swap.

I don't think Darthe would have chosen a target that he thought was Town.

The fact that there's a Mafia in the mix at all makes me think it's likely to be a true result and at least one of them is Mafia.

And I'm OK with voting any of Sinister/Turin.... but I just don't want people to let my honest case on Peace dissappear because of that. Which is why I'm still voting Peace right now.

DPR · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:45 PM, Darthe said:

Tbf I also didn’t realize this. I guess we could ask for mod clarification.

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What (specifically) would you like clarified?

Turin Turambar · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 1:01 PM, Darthe said:

That isn’t what they say Turin.

did I claim anything other than the results? I’m pretty sure I didn’t. Not trying to be pedantic here, but the distinctions you’re describing isn’t in this post and I didn’t imply it.

separately, I fundamentally disagree with the bus drive theory. It doesn’t make sense for a wolf team to bus drive between themselves and a townie early into this game. They’re creating liability. They’d be better off bus driving between two townies.

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The facts are all that I took from your post.

You did claim the view, so de facto claimed the role. Yes?

Did the MOD verify the role was used? Yes, he marked it as removed. It was not attached to a dead player,meaning it was used. This is a basic logical path. If you want to argue this, go stand in a corner.

Did anyone else claim the role or a view? No. Again I think this is clear cut.

Not sure what you are on about.

As far as busdriver use I will definitely disagree. This game has several alignment revealing roles. There is no mention of a Godfather to protect any mafia from views so I would assume that it doesn't exist. Why wouldn't mafia look to protect themselves by switching with townies to get themselves cleared? Or to try to get a false red peek on someone which would also put suspicion on the person that claimed the peek? Potentially 2 easy days of town lunches from one action. That you are not immediately seeing this is very troubling.

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 11:03 AM, DPR said:

Current Vote Cout:

SD (4) - Turin, Gud, peace, shad

peace (2) - Heavy, Ithi

Turin (1) - SD

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

9 hours til EoD

Day 2 ends at 4 pm on Monday, the 2nd.
The countdown timer is the first post in the OP

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Updated. non-voters are ed, berf, and I.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:54 PM, Darthe said:

You don’t have to empathize to get a read. I disagree with Ithi on nearly everything this game and she’s probably town. That’s called rational thinking.

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I'm not sure you understand what empathize means. It doesn't have anything to do with agreement, but I don't think this is exactly the right place for the discussion.

Ithillian Turambar · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 12:42 PM, Darthe said:

Heavy has never been a wolf in previous games from what I understand. So how do you know the bold?

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This is from all the times I have nodded him and also other games he has played. He is playing like he does as Town. He swings for those that he feels may have slighted him. He's getting better at not tipping towards nuclear, but it's still there and he's not worried about 'going off on one' if something hits a nerve.

I think Mafia Heavy would have a hard time pretending to be cross. He'd be worried about drawing attention and causing a bad situation for his team. Mafia Heavy would be wanting posts checked and reassurance. Mafia Heavy I think would be quiet and less confrontational. I thought I saw that in the game where he basically RPd for a bit... but I was wrong.

Plus you know... Town positive role most likely. Dice trusted him enough to bring him back.

Also yeah.. the irony in you also having a Town positive role isn't lost on me, but I didn't want to tell him to shush because you might want him to keep talking.

I tried in a subtle way though lol

Ithillian Turambar · June 2

Nodded lol

*modded

Darthe · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 1:12 PM, DPR said:

What (specifically) would you like clarified?

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Would a role that determines alignment see a simp as town or mafia?

can a simp be converted to full mafia?

Turin Turambar · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 1:12 PM, DPR said:

What (specifically) would you like clarified?

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Would the symp view as town?

Turin Turambar · June 2

*ducks the PAFO SIGN coming for Darthe, lolololololol

DPR · June 2

Current Vote Cout:

SD (4) - Turin, Gud, peace, Shad

peace (2) - Heavy, Ithi

Turin (1) - SD

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

5 hours 8 mins til EoD

Day 2 ends at 4 pm on Monday, the 2nd.
The countdown timer is the first post in the OP

Edited June 2 by DPR

DPR · June 2

On 6/2/2025 at 1:21 PM, Darthe said:

Would a role that determines alignment see a simp as town or mafia?

can a simp be converted to full mafia?

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On 6/2/2025 at 1:23 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Would the symp view as town?

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The Symp will view as Town under investigation. However, they will also be labeled as Symp upon death.

PAFO

[GAME OVER - TOWN WINS] Dragon and Swift

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