S3E7 - Goldeneyes

[DreadLord31]

Hmmm … well … hmmm. 
Here’s my initial thought dump: 

 

-Alanna must be a cat (she’s got 9 lives!) 

-Valda got his (cold-blooded twin teen killers those Cauthons are?) 
-liked the Aram moment 

-loved Faile’s fighting & Perrin beast mode with Ax & Hammer

-really surprised there was no “wolf” or “wolfbrother moment” in the episode

-what in the world happened to Lord Luc? Why introduce him and even bring him up again if he had no part? 
-the New Old Wisdom is super powered? Ummm and Alanna wouldn’t have sensed that before? That’s convenient: and then RIP. 
- most of the fighting was … ok … to be honest I was disappointed (but fight scenes … other than blood snow… haven’t been the shows strength whatsoever… so I kind of expected it). 
-Bain and Chiad are just fine? 
-Bornhalds arm is better now huh, heals fast cause of TR herbs? 

And finally … 

Brother Book is dead. And I’m not even sad about it … that’s kind of how I feel about the show right now. 
I hope in this turning of the wheel the Chosen win (they’re stealing the show!) 

Pun intended. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 7:57 PM, DreadLord31 said:

Hmmm … well … hmmm. 
Here’s my initial thought dump: 

 

-Alanna must be a cat (she’s got 9 lives!) 

-Valda got his (cold-blooded twin teen killers those Cauthons are?) 
-liked the Aram moment 

-loved Faile’s fighting & Perrin beast mode with Ax & Hammer

-really surprised there was no “wolf” or “wolfbrother moment” in the episode

-what in the world happened to Lord Luc? Why introduce him and even bring him up again if he had no part? 
-the New Old Wisdom is super powered? Ummm and Alanna wouldn’t have sensed that before? That’s convenient: and then RIP. 
- most of the fighting was … ok … to be honest I was disappointed (but fight scenes … other than blood snow… haven’t been the shows strength whatsoever… so I kind of expected it). 
-Bain and Chiad are just fine? 
-Bornhalds arm is better now huh, heals fast cause of TR herbs? 

And finally … 

Brother Book is dead. And I’m not even sad about it … that’s kind of how I feel about the show right now. 
I hope in this turning of the wheel the Chosen win (they’re stealing the show!) 

Pun intended. 

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The misuse of wolves and Luc is pretty bad.  I’m guessing next season there will be something there, but who knows.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 7:51 PM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

It was an appropriate death for Valda, but on the other hand I was looking forward to his duel with Galad. 

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I simply felt like there needed to be a little more to the scene.  It ended up being a little bit like Rand slowly standby Ishy in that Valda ran into the channelers and then just kind of stood there doing nothing.  He wasn’t in the main battle precisely because he was hunting down Alanna, so what as his plan?  He certainly didn’t seem to have one.  On top of his complete impotence, the acting from Alanna was terrible where she was struggling to live then immediately got her act together and propped herself up, and the girls channeling with ease continues to be ridiculous.  
 

It was a lazy scene and could have been executed better to the same end.

Edited April 10 by Mirefox

[Jaysen Gore]

A good, not great episode. Some observations I haven't seen yet

- Production lighting was still too dark in places. Almost unseeable on my TV, I pity streamers on PC's

- Very happy that they stayed in the 2R for the whole episode - no other plot intrusions. Helped built tension without cliffhanger cuts or fake out deaths

- there were honest to goodness hundreds of people in some shots. So we got a legit fantasy battle.  It still wasn't BotB big, but that lets them grow to Tarmon Gaidon

- While we didn't see him on screen, my working assumption is the arrows taking out Daise and Alanna were from Lord Luc.

- The inclusion of so many darkfriend extras was likely a cost cutting measure, but they should have added an arm band colour system like the Aiel in the books as a result. 

- At this point, I don't think we're going to get much if any of Perrin's wolf journey. Just too damned expensive

 

My other observations

- I'm okay with the big death event; a practical trade off to cut to the Ogier out from the story root and branch. Not just their presence in TG, but also eliminating the Gardeners. Too onerous a special effects spend, with minimal plot impact

- Alanna healing thing is still very stupid; I also kind of hate them boosting Maxsim as much as they are. Don't know how much of that is reacting to this board (he's not a good actor and has his job for nepotistic reasons), and how much that should have been Tam. Wonder if there's an actor availability conflict out there?

- The outcome with Valda reinforces something I've thought all along - we're not getting the Morgase subplot. 

- The change of circumstances for Aram picking up the sword weakens the Will of the Leaf, and improves his justification. 

 

And replies on various comments from the thread

- Padan Fain has been ill treated by the show, but was done dirty by the books as well; using him as the Gollum analogue kind of fell apart, and then he vanished for books on end and got a cheap death. So like Boba Fett, there's more to him in idea than in reality

- as book readers, the modern curses are jarring. For non-book watchers, book curses are. And there are more non-book watchers than there are book watchers.  Common solution - remember that all fantasy is being translated into English for convenient modern audiences; the Westland tongue isn't actually English

- I didn't really notice the fades missing until that was mentioned, but that is a big miss. 

[VooDooNut]

There were many terrible plot choices for this episode, but seeing Perrin dual-wield axe and hammer was awesome!

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 8:53 PM, VooDooNut said:

There were many terrible plot choices for this episode, but seeing Perrin dual-wield axe and hammer was awesome!

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Yes, I got a little chill for that whole sequence where Faile convinces him to rally his people and he goes out and grabs the hammer.  That was fun.

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/10/2025 at 8:31 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

The change of circumstances for Aram picking up the sword weakens the Will of the Leaf, and improves his justification. 

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Yes, I really hope Aram gets a better end in the show than he did in the books and I hope it’s more that just becoming the new blacksmith of Emond’s Field. This version is much more likable (Though I don’t think RJ ever intended him to be a likable character), I’m thinking maybe he will fill some of the Loial gaps in secenes such as Dumai’s Wells

[Yamezt]

My least favourite episode of the season - but it probably also fated to be my least favourite of the season because I never really found the battle for Two Rivers compelling in the books too.

 

I like show Faile a lot so far - she will probably have some neck disorder soon looking up towards Perrin all the time.

 

I don't particularly mind Loial being dead.

 

I don't mind the Alanna story line - but didn't like Maksim kind of taking the role of Tam - I don't think it worked well.

 

I did suspect it was going to be a whole episode of Two Rivers, but even so, I was disappointed not seeing the Tanchico and Aiel Waste storylines (Almost like re-living book releases back in the day come to think of it)

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/10/2025 at 8:03 PM, Mirefox said:

It was a lazy scene and could have been executed better to the same end.

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True, but that’s pretty much the show all around. I know it’s gotten better with each season but its kind of like bringing your grade up from an F to a C-. Sure it passable now but nowhere near great 

Edited April 10 by The_Watcher_And_Wanderer

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 10:02 PM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

Yes, I really hope Aram gets a better end in the show than he did in the books and I hope it’s more that just becoming the new blacksmith of Emond’s Field. This version is much more likable (Though I don’t think RJ ever intended him to be a likable character), I’m thinking maybe he will fill some of the Loial gaps in secenes such as Dumai’s Wells

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I think part of the reason we didn’t like him as much in the book was his pursuit of Egwene and that’s just a non-factor here.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 10:12 PM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

True, but that’s pretty much the show all around. I know it’s gotten better with each season but it’s kind of like bringing your grade up from an F to a C-. Sure it passable now but nowhere near great 

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Yeah, that pretty much sums up the sad state of this show.  We will see what happens next week - we’ve all been warned that it’s “controversial.”  That last two season finales have been nonsensical dumpster fires that were like a greatest hits of the writers’ bad ideas so get ready for a reassessment.

[king of nowhere]

  On 4/10/2025 at 3:24 PM, notpropaganda73 said:

 

tI don't even mind if they injure her again but can we stop with the over the top massive spears or arrows through the gut and chest, is that so much to ask? Like how many people did we see go down with a single arrow in this battle, yet Alanna survives long enough to be Healed no matter how many arrows hit her or spears impale her - are Aes Sedai like Wolverine or something? 

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i have to point out, what happens to alanna is actually the realistic reaction. unless the arrow cuts some major blood vessel, it took hours or days for a gut wound to kill before modern medicine - but it would kill almost certainly. an arrow to the chest could take hours, and depending on where it hits exactly, it may even be survivable. regardless, it rarely kills fast.

it's the people that go down like sacks of potatoes that are not realistic. but showing the realistic version of a battlefield littered with wounded beyond saving would be too harsh

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 4/10/2025 at 10:22 PM, Mirefox said:

I think part of the reason we didn’t like him as much in the book was his pursuit of Egwene and that’s just a non-factor here.

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I didn't like him in the book is he's a whiny git who's too afraid to stand up what he wants, and at the same time feels he's entitled to be great, without having done anything important. 

[Fiona_12]

 

  On 4/10/2025 at 2:55 PM, Mirefox said:

 

- Cursing in hand speak was cringe.  

 

- Did Alanna ask to be healed…with the spear still in her?.

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Not just cursing in maiden hand language, but modern day cursing. 

 

Nyaneave tried to heal Elayne without first removing the arrow, and the them she pushed the arrow through, she didn't break off the fetchings. Someone seriously needs to speak to the writers about how to deal with arrow wounds.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/10/2025 at 4:50 PM, Mirefox said:

It’s also appropriate comeuppance considering his burning to death was as the hands of the girls whose mother he burned to death.  I thought the scene was really sloppy but sure, I guess there’s some meaning there.

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It was sloppy, but because it was Mat's sisters who did it, it did provide some satisfaction. Without Morgase's story, Valda doesn't serve any more purpose to the show.

[Sabio]

Not the best episode, the series seems to struggle with battles.

 

Aiel were flirting with Loial?

healing *sighs*

Perin watches Fain kill a lady then suddenly hesitates to kill Fain?  Hated the whole make a deal with Fain.  That addition made no sense, why not just have Fain escape the fight?

The good in the show are rather stupid.  Moraine, Rand all being chummy, Perin makes a deal with Fain?

Edited April 11 by Sabio

[Mirefox]

Did Fain know that Perrin was in Emond’s Field?  I forget if he observed him directly.  Because if he knew that someone was there that could identify him as a darkfriend, why lead the double cross?!?

[DreadLord31]

You know, I’ll still be giving this episode a 6.5 out of 10 though … 

cause it was decent enough Tv and there just isn’t good fantasy shows out there; as much as I didn’t like some of the stuff they did … it was twice as good as RoP. 

[DreadLord31]

Some of their decisions make me think that they aren’t sure they’re going to get a S4 … which is really too bad. Anybody heard if it’s been greenlit yet? 

[Figs and Mice]

Yeah.  Well a lot of that episode was fun , but still gives a feel of middling average fan fiction replacing a really good story... Not condemning it all out  ; but after a few signs things had lifted in this season - and they generally have - this one leaves me fearing another train wreck final episode to rival the previous 2 seasons. Hope I'm being too pessimistic...

 

Points of note :

 

Alanna the Human Pincushion bounces up again whole and hearty. What will it ever take to stop this woman ?

 

Why bother sending prospective channelers to the White Tower ?  Just tell them to imagine a rosebud etc and ten minutes later they can heal life threatening injuries  & fry enemies where they stand...and don't have to worry about Three Oaths. 

 

Poor old Loial : gone so early and his book not really finished.  Or will he somehow be found to have survived through some mysterious workings of Ogier in The Ways ?  But maybe the wardrobe department is budget strapped and couldn't afford to keep up his make-up .

 

Daise got a rough deal. Where is a healer when you need one ?

 

Where the devil is Tam ???

 

Good riddance to Valda . Pity Perrin couldn't have finished Padan Fain as quickly : I was screaming "Kill !" at the screen but once he hesitated basically knew there was a loophole for another villain to escape. 

 

Like what they did with Aram. Not sure he will settle as a blacksmith now ; but what Jordan ended up doing with him in the books was one thing I really didn't like so hope he gets a better final arc in this show.

 

Faile is great ! Excellent casting and her interactions with Perrin (so far) are arguably better than the book characters  <See : I am not just here to mindlessly disparage everything about the show. Honest > 🙂

 

Some Whitecloak nuances in evidence which is a good thing. And with Perrin's surrender some mechanism will be needed to free him ... can't see the judgement of Morgase factoring in.

 

Battle scenes messy but battles often tend to be even in real life.  A lot of untrained defenders against a mixed bag of human and non human antagonists was never going to look scenes from Zulu...

 

Would have liked some wolves. Could do without Myrdral and anyway Fain had probably killed any that were around so he could control the whole trolloc army so no big miss.

 

All up I am giving it a five  -  maybe five and a half. OK , make it a six...but they better get next week's right !

 

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/11/2025 at 2:59 AM, Figs and Mice said:

 

Poor old Loial : gone so early and his book not really finished.  Or will he somehow be found to have survived through some mysterious workings of Ogier in The Ways ?  But maybe the wardrobe department is budget strapped and couldn't afford to keep up his make-up .

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Honestly I think that is the case. As much as I love Loial he really didn’t do much in the books after this point, his only other big scenes being Dumai’s wells and his debate with his mother. Given how little he does after this they probably didn’t think it was worth the time and cost of makeup. However, if they are going to kill off Loial this was the right way to do it. At first I thought why not have him go down at Dumai’s wells but after giving it a little thought dying to save the Two Rivers is better.

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/10/2025 at 11:09 AM, Irvyne said:

* I dislike the use of modern real-world curses. (ie. "You b***h!" "F***ing wetlanders.") Randland has its own selection of swear words that different characters use. Hearing phrases like this in the Wheel of Time is just eye-rolling.

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I agree 💯. This is one of the things that ruins the tone and makes this story not feel like WOT. I mean what if Peter Jackson had decided to take this approach with LOTR? Can you imagine Sam Gamgee dropping F-bombs?!

Edited April 11 by The_Watcher_And_Wanderer

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/10/2025 at 2:55 PM, Mirefox said:

Why in God’s name is Maksim in this show?  There are hundreds of characters in the book, most of whom are getting cut for this adaptation, and they pick a throwaway name and turn him into a main character.  Every scene he is in is pointless and bad.

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I think Maksim is to Rafe Judkins what Androl was to Brandon Sanderson, a character that he has made his own. Of course, the big differences are that Androl was a character that previously existed in the series, and Sanderson is actually good at writing characters. I can’t stand Maskim, largely because I don’t give a crap about some non book character. Why not at the very least give this role to Ivon? He is at least a character that I recognize from the books. 

Edited April 11 by The_Watcher_And_Wanderer

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 4/11/2025 at 2:21 AM, Mirefox said:

Did Fain know that Perrin was in Emond’s Field?  I forget if he observed him directly.  Because if he knew that someone was there that could identify him as a darkfriend, why lead the double cross?!?

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I'm sure he knew Perrin was around - even if he didn't see him directly, Bornhald would have told him after the parlay with Luc.  But I don't think Valda would have let him beg off from the battle, and all the children were coming into EF. IIRC, in the book, there was a different Whitecloak officer in charge that Fain had to kill in order to escape being in the battle of the 2R. If it wasn't an hour long TV show, they could have had him try to brazen it out "you believe this DF, young Bornhald? The killer of your father? Really?" but skip to the climax - betrayal, war, surrounded armies, and our hero triumphant. All in about 10 minutes.

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 4/11/2025 at 2:04 AM, Sabio said:

Not the best episode, the series seems to struggle with battles.

 

Aiel were flirting with Loial?

healing *sighs*

Perin watches Fain kill a lady then suddenly hesitates to kill Fain?  Hated the whole make a deal with Fain.  That addition made no sense, why not just have Fain escape the fight?

The good in the show are rather stupid.  Moraine, Rand all being chummy, Perin makes a deal with Fain?

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"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb" - Dark Helmet

 

And Fain needed to call off the Trollocs, because they had effectively won the battle; it was all over but the stewing.