Season 2 finale was so cringy, how are you all not upset? (Spoilers)

[DaddyFinn]

Stuff doesn't always go as planned. That's just life

[Averlan]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:39 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Rand fetching wine for Logain was kind of key to Moiraine finding him, by taking him to the party. Lanfer made Rand an important figure, him burning the invite meant that the spies where put on him to watch him, and then when he went off with Lanfer Moiraine could be told where he had gone. 
 

The logic and the connections of that scene were brilliant, and it gave a very logical reason for Moiraine to turn up at the hut and rescue Rand. If none of that had happened then we would have been asking “how did anyone know”. 
 

 

I am assuming you have decided to ignore the fact that moraine had logain moved to carihien specifically so she would know where rand was? And if your go to move a false dragon, what logic would make you htink she didn't have a bunch of eyes and ears on Rand from the moment he showed up?

The first part Moraine moving Logain is stated as fact in the series. The burning of the letters were important in the books for various reasons, non of which apply in the series. It's jsut a scene they added from the books that really doesn't provide anything. At least Lanfere taking him to the party provides context on her character and what she might be willing to do for him.

 

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Averlan said:

 

Moiraine had lost track of Rand, she had lost control of any spies or anyone, she had not planned for a foresaken to be hunting him. So no, she didn’t have “eyes” on him, she assumed she would be able to find him at the mad house. She also would not have wanted to draw any attention that this random 2 rivers boy was special enough to be watched. 
 

Her sister would not have paid any attention to him because he had done nothing to show he was important until he turned up at that party. No one knew he existed. The fact that Moiraine didn’t know where he was proves that your logic is flawed, it proves she didn’t in fact have eyes on him and she didn’t know where he had gone. If he hadn’t gone to the party then her sister would have had no incentive to watch him either. 

[megalomax]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:40 PM, RitualM said:

It hurt me on so many levels. The ONLY good thing about the entire episode was the reveal of Moghediean, that scene was amazing.

 

Was s2 better than s1? In some ways. But that's like saying getting punched in the face is better than getting hit with a sledge hammer. Neither is good.

 

I want to focus on two of the most awful parts, at least to me.

 

 The worst of the worst was Mat blowing the horn. He runs into a line of soldiers just standing on a rooftop waiting for no reason while the city is in chaos? That might be one of the laziest pieces of writing and direction I've ever seen in my life.

 

Rand still feels like a side character, and his lame dragon reveal with moraine was so awful and cringy, his "fight" with ishameal was equally as cringy. Where is the battle in the sky? The clash of thousands year old forsaken with a legendary  dragon reborn to proclaim his rebirth. It was just fireballs. Grand forsaken with thousands of years of one power knowledge and all he can think to do is throw fireballs at egwenes shield and wait? Sweet Jesus that was painfully dumb.

They should have had a battle, a real battle where rand actually shows a little power  and the finale should have been the culmination of power interacting to light the sky up when Ishmael loses illuminating rand and the fire falling down in the vague shape of a dragon. Not moraine making some lame dragon out of fire for him. Rand still hasn't done a damn thing.

 

At this point I think I have to be done with the show. This is not just a case of its a different turning of the wheel. It's not just because it is divergent from the books. It's just bad writing, and it hurts me cus the source material is so rich and vast that it took some serious effort to make it so lame.

 

Rafe should be ashamed and any fan of the books should be outraged at how poorly this was done.

 

Doubt I'll bother with s3.

 

I think I need to reread the series again to get the sour taste of the show out of my mouth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The departure from the books didn't make me want to finish each epsiode. I spent time skipping stuff. I understand that total adaptation isn't possible considering the length of each book and a dozen or so books in total. But they botched up a lot of things. Same sentiment, I don't think I'll watch s3. 

[megalomax]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:16 AM, Scarloc99 said:

Moiraine had lost track of Rand, she had lost control of any spies or anyone, she had not planned for a foresaken to be hunting him. So no, she didn’t have “eyes” on him, she assumed she would be able to find him at the mad house. She also would not have wanted to draw any attention that this random 2 rivers boy was special enough to be watched. 
 

Her sister would not have paid any attention to him because he had done nothing to show he was important until he turned up at that party. No one knew he existed. The fact that Moiraine didn’t know where he was proves that your logic is flawed, it proves she didn’t in fact have eyes on him and she didn’t know where he had gone. If he hadn’t gone to the party then her sister would have had no incentive to watch him either. 

Didn't Moiraine leave a token to each of them? Something she could trace as long as the token was in the possession of the person. She gave one (silver tar valon mark) to Rand, Mat and Perrin. I can't remember in s1 if an episode showcased that. I may have to skim the earlier episodes. 

[Scarloc99]

8 hours ago, megalomax said:

Didn't Moiraine leave a token to each of them? Something she could trace as long as the token was in the possession of the person. She gave one (silver tar valon mark) to Rand, Mat and Perrin. I can't remember in s1 if an episode showcased that. I may have to skim the earlier episodes. 

No that was in the books, there was no such thing in the TV show, And in the books Rand and Mat get rid of theirs. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Scarloc99]

8 hours ago, megalomax said:

The departure from the books didn't make me want to finish each epsiode. I spent time skipping stuff. I understand that total adaptation isn't possible considering the length of each book and a dozen or so books in total. But they botched up a lot of things. Same sentiment, I don't think I'll watch s3. 

Season 3 will track closely to book 4, the writers had to get all of books 1-3 into 2 seasons. 

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

No that was in the books, there was no such thing in the TV show, And in the books Rand and Mat get rid of theirs. 

It was not used again IIRC. One of those early-series things, like Moiraine's staff

[fra85uk]

20 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Season 3 will track closely to book 4, the writers had to get all of books 1-3 into 2 seasons. 

If it is in the same way that S2 should have been closer to the books...

 

At this point, it is also irrelevant. Rafe and his team are doing THEIR thing and they will succeed or fail not on the basis of how well they will adapt the material but how good this other turning of the wheel will be...

[Ralph]

3 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

It was not used again IIRC. One of those early-series things, like Moiraine's staff

Elayne used something similar for the thief I think

[DaddyFinn]

35 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Elayne used something similar for the thief I think

Okay, I don't remember that well. It sounds like a very useful weave that just isn't used for reasons. 

[Ralph]

47 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Okay, I don't remember that well. It sounds like a very useful weave that just isn't used for reasons. 

yup

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Okay, I don't remember that well. It sounds like a very useful weave that just isn't used for reasons. 

I mean RJ did that a bit later on, I need to make a thing happen, wait there is a weave for that. 
 

But l, and I need to go back and read that section, I thought that weave by Elayne was a fake out? She didn’t put any kind of tracking weave on him at all? 

[Skipp]

14 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I mean RJ did that a bit later on, I need to make a thing happen, wait there is a weave for that. 
 

But l, and I need to go back and read that section, I thought that weave by Elayne was a fake out? She didn’t put any kind of tracking weave on him at all? 

I think she implied she placed it on the thief but it is only on his belt buckle as it has to be applied to metal?

[Scarloc99]

15 hours ago, Skipp said:

I think she implied she placed it on the thief but it is only on his belt buckle as it has to be applied to metal?

Yep just re read it. A finder weave on his clothes that will fade after a few weeks. Samwil Hark is the thief. 

[Windigo]

On 10/7/2023 at 12:40 PM, RitualM said:

The worst of the worst was Mat blowing the horn. He runs into a line of soldiers just standing on a rooftop waiting for no reason while the city is in chaos? That might be one of the laziest pieces of writing and direction I've ever seen in my life.

No it did not bother me it looked like excellent military tactic. 
They are protecting access to the Seanchans most important battle weapon. If they had run off to fight that would have been even more ridiculous. 

 

[Skipp]

3 hours ago, Windigo said:

No it did not bother me it looked like excellent military tactic. 
They are protecting access to the Seanchans most important battle weapon. If they had run off to fight that would have been even more ridiculous. 

 

Agreed, having a unit of soldiers protecting access to the Damane seems very smart, guard this with your lives and such.  I do agree that it was a TVism to have the unit charge a single combatant..... but thats TV for you.

[trw1972]

No i am not angry, i have enjoyed S2 a lot.

I think one or two things were done better than the books and there were a few things i disliked

 

The forsaken are much better fleshed out than in the books so far but i didn't like the end scene with Egwene and i didn't like the lan/alanna/alannas warders/moraine subplot - although i know it was to keep pike on screen.

 

As for magic systems, yes they are simplifying things, they have to due to time constraints. 

 

Has to be mentioned that the first of the book completely broke its own magic rules as well, but perhaps that is why i don't get as angry about changes. I love the book series, i have read it a dozen times but don't consider it to be perfect. For me books 2-6 and 11-14 are brill, books 7-10 are a bit of a slog (especially 10) and book 1 is good but with some genuine issues.  

 

[fra85uk]

It is true that one of the good things about modern-day entertainment is that evil characters are given more space and more info about their motivations. 

This is valid also for WoT Show and Ishamael, Lanfear and Liandrin are very well presented in the show.

The only problem I have in this regard is that main characters for me have not received an equally good treatment and many times I found myself rooting for villains.

 

Small OT: Reading the books, I have always wondered about the details of Forsakens background which are only hinted at in the books. I would have loved to see a telling of that story.

[trw1972]

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

It is true that one of the good things about modern-day entertainment is that evil characters are given more space and more info about their motivations. 

This is valid also for WoT Show and Ishamael, Lanfear and Liandrin are very well presented in the show.

The only problem I have in this regard is that main characters for me have not received an equally good treatment and many times I found myself rooting for villains.

 

Small OT: Reading the books, I have always wondered about the details of Forsakens background which are only hinted at in the books. I would have loved to see a telling of that story.

 

I have been team Lanfear in the show for a while, but i like that ishys argument 'sort of ' makes sense and makes it all bit more grey.

 

As for the main characters not being treated right, i think we can all agree the Mat changes were forced on them? but i do hope we get quality mat, perrin and rand development in S3.

[fra85uk]

32 minutes ago, trw1972 said:

 

I have been team Lanfear in the show for a while, but i like that ishys argument 'sort of ' makes sense and makes it all bit more grey.

 

As for the main characters not being treated right, i think we can all agree the Mat changes were forced on them? but i do hope we get quality mat, perrin and rand development in S3.

 But they need to give them real time and real quality storyline (a suggestion: there is a series of books called The Wheel of Time, crazy idea: get some inspiration from it?)

 

 

[Rhaze]

It is all about context. Millions of people never miss a WWE event. They absolutely love it. Millions more line up to watch the new Fast and Furious. Look at all the money the Transformers movies made...

 

 most people who watch something want to sit back, turn off their brains, and enjoy the explosions.

 

 That is how you have to watch WoT. Turn off your brain, dont think too deeply, and enjoy the explosions.

[fra85uk]

11 hours ago, Rhaze said:

 That is how you have to watch WoT. Turn off your brain, dont think too deeply, and enjoy the explosions.

 

Well, in order to do so, they should do actions scenes better.

The best one stil remains the cold open of Rand's mom in S1.

This is still a high-fantasy show: can we have some really cool, nicely coreographated and well directed action scenes at least? The way action scenes are filmed and cut is really disturbing and it is always difficult to understand what is going on.

[Guire]

14 hours ago, Rhaze said:

It is all about context. Millions of people never miss a WWE event. They absolutely love it. Millions more line up to watch the new Fast and Furious. Look at all the money the Transformers movies made...

 

 most people who watch something want to sit back, turn off their brains, and enjoy the explosions.

 

 That is how you have to watch WoT. Turn off your brain, dont think too deeply, and enjoy the explosions.

So the riviting battle between Lan urinating and Barthanes wig. 

.

[BenPatient]

I am actually mostly fine with what they did with Rand this season. The focus for him was Selene/Lanfear, which let's be honest, is exactly what his focus was for most of TGH, too.

 

Yes, he should have done some actual training with a sword. Just like 20-30 seconds of montage with him and Lan or him and that random guy, saying 1-2 form names and showing him practicing. Then you still have him pull Indiana Jones on Turok. You know, to subvert expectations. Fine, cool, nice.

 

I think there is plenty of evidence that Ishy was toying with them on the top of the tower, waiting for Rand to sword him for "reasons" (probably related to visions/prophecy/history). He's already said all that stuff about wanting it to end. It would have been more effective if he'd been completely lazy about it all, though. 

 

And why bother with the boat damane shielding Rand at all? 

 

But yeah, generally fine with the Rand story in S2, underwhelming as it was. He needs somewhere to grow towards, and Rhuidian is going to have to be the thing for him. I suspect they dropped Darkhounds entirely. 

 

HOWEVER...the way they did the end for Elayne/Nyn and the sul dam drove me nuts. It felt like the writers for one episode just didn't like what the writers for a previous episode had set up, so they pulled a Star Wars Sequel thing. Or were they trying to hint at the way that should go for book readers, and then 'subverting' it for us by having the sul'dam get arrowed? Nyn's block hasn't been explained, which is fine if you want her to stew in it for a while. But Eggy shouldn't have been able to get herself out of the collar, and having that happen so easily cheapened her arc this season. The a'dam should be completely, totally terrifying, with no way out. You need someone else to get you out of one. No help? No escape. Why would Moggy being trapped by one really even be a big deal if you can just get out with this One Simple Trick that All Sul'dam Hate? Instead we get Nyn making confused/sad face for the last 2+ episodes. No hint of her righteous anger=mega block-clearing power. Has she even channeled since she nuked Tarwin's Gap and brought Eggy back from the dead last season?