Is anyone else going to be upset if they drop mat's starting session with Galad snd Gawyn?

[ForsakenPotato]

6 hours ago, Samt said:

Did you feel the same about Morgase/Tallanvor?

 

I think Elayne/Thom could work on screen if you lean into the fact that it's supposed to be a joke.  But it doesn't seem that the show is really leaning into the self-deprecating humor of the books, so it's probably not on theme.  

Yeah, I wasn't particularly excited about Morgase and Tallanvor either, although I don't remember exactly how young he was supposed to be. I did not care who Morgase ended up with as long as it wasn't another of the Foresaken. A lot of the pairings in books seemed to occur in the last 3rd of the series only so the majority of good characters would be paired off at the end. By the time the Last Battle is imminent, I frankly don't care which characters have the hots for each other. That probably influenced my feelings on Siuan and Bryne as much as the other circumstances of their relationship did.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you on the Thom and Elayne interactions, and I may have misread them in the books. I remembered Thom being uncomfortable, but maybe it was just Nyneave. It doesn't really seem important to me to include, but if they do it tactfully for a scene or two of comic relief I won't mind.

[Scarloc99]

So gawyn got a mention in episode 5 so he is in the TV show world at least, I imagine we will see him soon. 

[Jaysen Gore]

18 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

So gawyn got a mention in episode 5 so he is in the TV show world at least, I imagine we will see him soon. 

I don't think we get him and his brother until season 3. And instead of being introduced through the fight with Mat, we meet them because Elaida brings them to the Tower looking for the missing Daughter Heir, and Elayne's reunion with them is the brothers' first scene.

 

Mat is part of the Wonder Girls escort back to the tower (inured to the dagger and with the horn), and the fight occurs sometime in season 3 or 4, maybe even as part of the

Spoiler

sundering of the Tower, and getting the WG's out of the Tower.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Jaysen Gore

[Scarloc99]

13 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I don't think we get him and his brother until season 3. And instead of being introduced through the fight with Mat, we meet them because Elaida brings them to the Tower looking for the missing Daughter Heir, and Elayne's reunion with them is the brothers' first scene.

 

Mat is part of the Wonder Girls escort back to the tower (inured to the dagger and with the horn), and the fight occurs sometime in season 3 or 4, maybe even as part of the

  Hide contents

sundering of the Tower, and getting the WG's out of the Tower.

 

I doubt Mat is going back to the tower again, I don't think he will access the dagger again either, think he is healed from that already, or any healing will happen away from the WT. Season 3 is book 4 so we need to get Rand and Mat to the 3 fold land asap so he can go through the doorway. With only 6 more seasons they can't be wasting time with the constant back and forth to the white tower that you get in the books, I am not 100% sure the girls will go back to the white tower now at all, although they might just so they can become accepted. 

I think we are getting the sparring scene somewhere that is not the white tower at all. 

[BookMattBetterThanShow]

Really hope they figure out some way to show it, maybe they do it some place other than the Tower?

[SinisterDeath]

9 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I doubt Mat is going back to the tower again, I don't think he will access the dagger again either, think he is healed from that already, or any healing will happen away from the WT. Season 3 is book 4 so we need to get Rand and Mat to the 3 fold land asap so he can go through the doorway. With only 6 more seasons they can't be wasting time with the constant back and forth to the white tower that you get in the books, I am not 100% sure the girls will go back to the white tower now at all, although they might just so they can become accepted. 

I think we are getting the sparring scene somewhere that is not the white tower at all. 

I don't know that we have any real confirmation from Rafe that Season 3 is explicitly and wholely book 4.

 

It could very well be a mix of books 3 and 4, like a S2 is a mix of Books 2 & 3.

 

We could get the last half of book 3, and the first half of book 4 in S3.

 

Just imagine a S3 season finale with Mat on the Tree, and Perrin in the Two Rivers facing off against Trollocs, and the Girls fighting Moghedien... 

[EmreY]

Replying to OP: Not in the slightest.

[DigificWriter]

10 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I don't know that we have any real confirmation from Rafe that Season 3 is explicitly and wholly book 4.

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

8 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

 

Lets look at what's in the ()

"Large parts still being held for later".
Followed by 
"So S3 can be a closer adaptation to TSR".

That doesn't mean  S3 = a 1:1 of TSR.

 

That can literally mean, S3E5thru8 = TSR.
  

8 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

I don't know that we have any real confirmation from Rafe that Season 3 is explicitly and wholly book 4.

 

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Lets look at what's in the ()

"Large parts still being held for later".
Followed by 
"So S3 can be a closer adaptation to TSR".

That doesn't mean  S3 = a 1:1 of TSR.

 

That can literally mean, S3E5thru8 = TSR.
  

 

I did a post asking if it matters if tear happens after TSR, I don't think it does. 

[SinisterDeath]

35 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I did a post asking if it matters if tear happens after TSR, I don't think it does. 

Sure, but again Rafe's post was in the context of Season 2.

We have currently seen 5 episodes of Season 2. What content have we seen from book 3 so far?
So far almost everything is based on the Great Hunt.

About the only thing I've seen so far that might be from book 3, is Rand's story line is similar to how he went AWOL in book 3 when he traveled south.

 

Rafe said: "We are trying to get a fair amount of what's done in book 1-3 (large parts still being held for later), by the end of S2 so that S3 can be a much closer adaptation of TSR."

That "and later" comment IMO implies Season 3 and beyond...

Making S3 a closer adaptation to TSR IMO doesn't mean making the entire season TSR. 
If they play their cards right, we can have Rand/Mat/Perrin and Company take the Stone in the first couple of episodes of S3.

Honestly, we don't even need to spend an entire Season on that plot... (specially depending if Season 2 sets us up for a cliffhanger ending that involves them breaching the stone...)

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Sure, but again Rafe's post was in the context of Season 2.

We have currently seen 5 episodes of Season 2. What content have we seen from book 3 so far?
So far almost everything is based on the Great Hunt.

About the only thing I've seen so far that might be from book 3, is Rand's story line is similar to how he went AWOL in book 3 when he traveled south.

 

Rafe said: "We are trying to get a fair amount of what's done in book 1-3 (large parts still being held for later), by the end of S2 so that S3 can be a much closer adaptation of TSR."

That "and later" comment IMO implies Season 3 and beyond...

Making S3 a closer adaptation to TSR IMO doesn't mean making the entire season TSR. 
If they play their cards right, we can have Rand/Mat/Perrin and Company take the Stone in the first couple of episodes of S3.

Honestly, we don't even need to spend an entire Season on that plot... (specially depending if Season 2 sets us up for a cliffhanger ending that involves them breaching the stone...)

All the stuff regarding Rands characters journey I would say is taken from 2 and 3, he is carving his own path, we have Avi being introduced as well, I think we need to look at the book stuff of 2 and 3 being not story beats from the book, but the overall character development to get the main characters to where they are ready for the journey to Emonds Field, the 3 fold land and hunting the black Ajah. There is so much repetition in book 3 to book 2 in terms of just travelling across the land, getting into traps etc that you really only need to show those specific story elements once otherwise it gets very repetitive. Oh the girls have walked into yet another trap set up by the black, oh Perrin is chasing across the land again, this time chasing Rand, oh Rand is chasing across the land after someone being in his dreams, again. None of that makes for a great TV experiance so I feel they are using TGH to do the heavy lifting and then TDR for some key character moments, after all it is in TDR that Moiraine goes and faces down a Forsaken (off screen) without Lan, we have had that moment here with Lanfer. 

 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

None of that makes for a great TV experiance so I feel they are using TGH to do the heavy lifting and then TDR for some key character moments, after all it is in TDR that Moiraine goes and faces down a Forsaken (off screen) without Lan, we have had that moment here with Lanfer. 

Aye, which is why I think they can skip a lot of that and go right to the finale of TDR really early in S3 and make most of S3 TSR, leaving S4 the latter half of Book 4 and book 5+.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

I am so far behind on watching the show that I only got around to watching the Origin extras last night. And given that they have already used the warder trainees fighting with quarterstaff against sword, and have the exact dialogue after the encounter, I would guess there is zero chance that Mat and bros would meet up like in the book. 

 

Could be in a different setting, maybe even two different cocky swordsmen, perhaps to show off the ashandarei, 

[Mirefox]

6 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I am so far behind on watching the show that I only got around to watching the Origin extras last night. And given that they have already used the warder trainees fighting with quarterstaff against sword, and have the exact dialogue after the encounter, I would guess there is zero chance that Mat and bros would meet up like in the book. 

 

Could be in a different setting, maybe even two different cocky swordsmen, perhaps to show off the ashandarei, 

Interesting.  I’ve never watched any of the extra stuff and think the show should stand on its own without outside explanations.  I didn’t know a scene like that existed.  I always thought that Rafe’s response to a question about this scene was a little vague and I’m being swayed to the idea that we won’t see the fight.

[SinisterDeath]

9 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Interesting.  I’ve never watched any of the extra stuff and think the show should stand on its own without outside explanations.  I didn’t know a scene like that existed.  I always thought that Rafe’s response to a question about this scene was a little vague and I’m being swayed to the idea that we won’t see the fight.

Y'all are missing out when you don't watch the Origins; and when ya go on to preach that the show should stand on it's own merits as if that's some kind of slam dunk on the show.... well content is content.

 

It's like gloating about not watching "The Animatrix" and have only seen the "Matrix Trilogy", all you've done is missed out on some great content!

[Robbin Poh]

If they had kept it without offering any better buildup to how he gained those skills, the result would be worse. In the books, it was acceptable to just give a handwaving reason that he had always been skilled even though he had never used it even once in book 1 nor had anyone else mentioned it, but suddenly becoming Mary Sue in the show like that would be too much even compared to Nynaeve.

[Scarloc99]

11 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Y'all are missing out when you don't watch the Origins; and when ya go on to preach that the show should stand on it's own merits as if that's some kind of slam dunk on the show.... well content is content.

 

It's like gloating about not watching "The Animatrix" and have only seen the "Matrix Trilogy", all you've done is missed out on some great content!

I mean for me the Matrix is one movie and the animatrix, and that is it, much like GOT ended at season 5. The Animatrix holds up even now as a fantastic piece of anime. 

[FanofKnotai]

On 9/14/2023 at 3:57 AM, Scarloc99 said:

One of the great generals that leads the last battle, with a storyline that ends in tragedy, a storyline that leads directly to Matt being given the role he is at the last battle, the whole compulsion plot is key to the dark almost winning and to have that pack an emotional punch the audience needs it to happen to characters they care about. We have Siuan so we will have Gareth because there arcs are so interlinked, and that kind of tragic story is one that TV writers love to write. 

I agree that these things SHOULD happen. But I highly doubt they will. With these makers Siuan and Moiraine are in love. Where does Gareth fit in to that? Gareth was my favorite General, surpassing even Davram. But I think the way this show is going neither will make more than a passing appearance. I think they will find a completely non book related reason to give Mat leadership if the show makes it that far. 

[FanofKnotai]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:43 AM, Samt said:

Oh I hope so.  But given what we have seen and the proclivities of the creators, I suspect that Siuanraine is the gaywashed endgame.  (Remember Rafe wanted to kill off Thom for real).  If Bryne doesn’t have his relationship with Siuan, he’s highly cuttable.  We aren’t getting the book version of 5 captains anyways (bye Agelmar, we hardly knew you).  I doubt Ituralde or Niall makes it either. Davram is only a maybe, I’d say.  Maybe Bryne is included as a very background character, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.  

 

Note also that the creators seem very motivated to either cut, kill off early, or undercut any competent and honorable men from the books.  (Lan, Thom, Agelmar, Uno, Abel).  

Quote

To Rafe, all masculinity is toxic masculinity.

 

That is so unfortunately true. The story he’s telling screams this. 

[FanofKnotai]

On 9/14/2023 at 11:56 PM, ForsakenPotato said:

I think if we got the arguably less important Bayle, we're likely to get Gareth, but probably a bit abbreviated. I don't know if his and Siuan's arc needs to be romantic to end with him as her warder, but if it is I really hope she doesn't look like a teenager. It was weird in the books and it'll be weirder on screen. Same goes for Elayne hitting on Thom. Ick.

The books never said she looked like a teenager. They only said she looked much younger than she did before her stilling. I always took this to mean early to mid 20’s instead of early to mid 30’s like I pictured the aes sedai. As far as the elayne story, thom was just as disgusted as you are with elayne’s actions but think about a teacher trying to fend of some delusional student with a crush.  Unfortunately it happens. But it’s a part of elaynes growth as a woman and dealing with her feelings towards rand. The only “ick” would have been if Jordan would have had thom act on it. Back to the show…Gareth didn’t interact significantly with the ef5 until much later in the series (trying to avoid spoilers). However Bayle was mentioned heavily in TGH. So it explains why he is in this season. With the amount of changes they are making, not just with siuan but with egwene and her story, the ripple effects will most likely lead to Gareth not being around. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

1 hour ago, FanofKnotai said:

Gareth was my favorite General, surpassing even Davram.

They are both good, but the Little Wolf is the best.  🐺

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

4 hours ago, FanofKnotai said:

The books never said she looked like a teenager. They only said she looked much younger than she did before her stilling. I always took this to mean early to mid 20’s instead of early to mid 30’s like I pictured the aes sedai.

Siuan is the same age as Moiraine (roughly, as they were novices together) and Rand when first meeting Moiraine thinks she looks as young as Nynaeve (who looked younger than her age (slightly) as she had started slowing) to being in her forties. Hence the agelessness. So for Siuan to look noticeably younger, I don't see how that could mean anything but a teenager. She should already have looked like she was in her early twenties. And young enough that people did not recognize her? Mid-teens? Younger? I guess the book leaves it to your imagination, and your own sense of propriety. Though what would it matter if someone looked twelve if they were actually much older? Send your thoughts on a postcard or sealed-down envelope to Freepost Inappropriate, Milton Keynes MK1 1DS.

[FanofKnotai]

8 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

They are both good, but the Little Wolf is the best.  🐺

Ituralde was a genius, no doubt. But no Gareth. 

[DaddyFinn]

13 hours ago, FanofKnotai said:

With these makers Siuan and Moiraine are in love.

As they were in New Spring. Thom and Gareth as their later love interests were always meh.