Darkfriend radar

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

As I progress through my reread, I’m reminded of how I experienced my first read through and the things I was unsure of until the end, one element being who is a darkfriend and who isn’t. Did any of you have surprises regarding any characters’ darkfriend status? I was certainly surprised here and there, for example sheriam and verin (the light bless her 🥰) and then on the flip side some characters I wasn’t sure if they were trustworthy until the end (the example that comes to mind is vanin…I was never sure of him for some reason). There are plenty more characters I wasn’t sure of but those are the ones that immediately came to mind. Anyone else have anything to say on the subject?

[Elgee]

Sheriam came as a surprise to me, I must say, but not Verin.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was just ever so slightly unsure of Vanin 😆

Going to have to think about it and see ... does anyone have a list of all the confirm and suspected DFs?

[Disco]

I feel like there were few surprises, none of the characters you would care about were really darkfriends. Verin was the exception, also there was a character very early on, I think the Great Hunt that surprised me... He tried to redeem himself by dying holding off people while Rand escapes.

[DojoToad]

I was surprised by most that weren't blatantly obvious.

[WheelofJuke]

Ingtar the Shienaran was the first big DF surprise. It was well told, and emotionally powerful by RJ. 

Unfortunately, the DF reveal that should've been one of the coolest moments of the whole books was Verin, simply because it was the only part of the series that I didn't manage to completely avoid spoilers...so I knew it was coming. 

Sheriam was a surprise. Mazrim Taim wasn't too difficult to figure out, but which Asha'men were DFs and which not was pretty unclear. 

Never had suspicions about Vanin. Instead, I was always suspicious of Talmanes. I love Talmanes....and his back and forth with Mat is definitely some of my most favorite moments. I guess I thought he was too cool to NOT be a DF, and was happy when he wasn't.

Gen. Bashere's DF-like actions during the Final Battle were a bit of a weird red herring that I felt ether got rushed or just the typical "moving right along" treatment of BS's style. 

[Disco]

Well, Verin blatantly lied early on in the books so everyone knew something was up. From memory her forum topic was "black, brown or purple". Furthermore she was never really black. So I don't think we can really say we were surprised that she was black. You might have been surprised at the plot twist (I was) of her being a "double agent".

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

16 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

Ingtar the Shienaran was the first big DF surprise. It was well told, and emotionally powerful by RJ. 

Unfortunately, the DF reveal that should've been one of the coolest moments of the whole books was Verin, simply because it was the only part of the series that I didn't manage to completely avoid spoilers...so I knew it was coming. 

Sheriam was a surprise. Mazrim Taim wasn't too difficult to figure out, but which Asha'men were DFs and which not was pretty unclear. 

Never had suspicions about Vanin. Instead, I was always suspicious of Talmanes. I love Talmanes....and his back and forth with Mat is definitely some of my most favorite moments. I guess I thought he was too cool to NOT be a DF, and was happy when he wasn't.

Gen. Bashere's DF-like actions during the Final Battle were a bit of a weird red herring that I felt ether got rushed or just the typical "moving right along" treatment of BS's style. 

Yes and speaking of bashere, when he first showed up to support Rand in LOC, I was not sure what to think. He threw a knife at Rand! To prove a point, sure, but it still had me wondering. Then I decided that he was genuinely supportive of Rand, but when that plot began where the main generals had apparently been under compulsion but we don’t know that at first, so initially bashere looked like a Darkfriend, I was in pure wtf is going on mode. I admit I was taken for a ride there and was gullible enough to believe it but what a relief when I learned the truth. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

Another one that just came to mind that at first had me wondering but doesn’t really take too much time to sort out, relatively speaking, was the initial introduction of cadsuane. I couldn’t tell what was going on with her when she’s first introduced. Same with that former damane whose name escapes me. It’s hard to remember the initial thoughts I had when I read the series for the first time, now that I know the canon, but I’m sure I’ll be reminded of more as I reread. 

[Elgee]

I forgot about Ingtar! LoL ... yeah that was the first we became aware of really, wasn't it? He was a sad surprise.

And I agree with you, @Lightfriendsocialmistress (we HAVE to get you a shorter nickname!) - I was also very iffy about Cads.

 

Former damane: the strong girl? Now I can't remember her name either. I didn't really suspect her of being a DF, because who would have recruited a damane? And she wouldn't really have had the opportunity to pursue ... ahem .. private activities.

[Elgee]

Alivia!

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

16 hours ago, Elgee said:

I forgot about Ingtar! LoL ... yeah that was the first we became aware of really, wasn't it? He was a sad surprise.

And I agree with you, @Lightfriendsocialmistress (we HAVE to get you a shorter nickname!) - I was also very iffy about Cads.

 

Former damane: the strong girl? Now I can't remember her name either. I didn't really suspect her of being a DF, because who would have recruited a damane? And she wouldn't really have had the opportunity to pursue ... ahem .. private activities.

Hahaha regarding the nickname, all I can say is I’m new to forums, had no idea what to choose, and may have been a little tipsy 😬

And regarding the strong former damane, I didn’t necessarily suspect she was a Darkfriend but I wasn’t certain what her intentions were or whether she had some ulterior motive such as a mole or something for the seanchan. 
ps…can you remind me what you mean by private activities? I’m drawing a blank…

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

16 hours ago, Elgee said:

Alivia!

Thank God for you…it was driving me nuts but I was too engrossed in my current place in my reread to go find out for myself 

[Elgee]

8 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

ps…can you remind me what you mean by private activities? I’m drawing a blank…

 

Nothing under the blanket ... LoL ... just meant that she could hardly slip away for a Darkfriend Social, for instance.

 

8 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Thank God for you…it was driving me nuts but I was too engrossed in my current place in my reread to go find out for myself 

 

Hahaha it's a pleasure! My memory is usually a few beats behind my fingers (or mouth!), hence the double post.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

Another one I just remembered is Nicola. I think that’s her name. Never quite trusted her. 

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Another one I just remembered is Nicola. I think that’s her name. Never quite trusted her. 

Not a darkfriend, but selfish, self-important brat - that committed immoral actions (blackmail).

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

26 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Not a darkfriend, but selfish, self-important brat - that committed immoral actions (blackmail).

Yes! It’s so fascinating how many characters who aren’t officially Darkfriends exhibit characters just as selfish and harmful as the dark evil ones 

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Yes! It’s so fascinating how many characters who aren’t officially Darkfriends exhibit characters just as selfish and harmful as the dark evil ones 

Yep.  Serving herself instead of the DO.

[Elgee]

7 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Another one I just remembered is Nicola. I think that’s her name. Never quite trusted her. 

 

Disliked her intensely!

[Elgee]

Who realised that Moghedien was masquerading

Spoiler

as Marigan in Salidar

?

[Disco]

Else was one of the foresaken! The novice I did not think of that 

[Sabio]

Verin wasn't a surprise because she lied in Book 2 and was about to murder Casudane.  It would have been more of a surprise had Taim not turned out to be a DF.

 

The big question for me was if that one general Weirmon?? Was a DF or just really dumb and incompetent.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

15 hours ago, Elgee said:

Who realised that Moghedien was masquerading

  Reveal hidden contents

as Marigan in Salidar

?

I admit not me …however I missed a lot on my first read. Probably still missing a lot on my second! And will continue with every reread which keeps me coming back, but I think I’ve been more oblivious to some things than most astute readers. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

1 hour ago, Disco said:

Else was one of the foresaken! The novice I did not think of that 

Whhaaatttt?!? Wow!  I never considered that, I just thought lanfear used her but didn’t consider else herself might be one 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Verin wasn't a surprise because she lied in Book 2 and was about to murder Casudane.  It would have been more of a surprise had Taim not turned out to be a DF.

 

The big question for me was if that one general Weirmon?? Was a DF or just really dumb and incompetent.

Oh wow you just expressed something I always wondered…what is the deal with this weiramon?

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

The problem is that many of the darkfriends were still operating on the mad orders given out by ba'alzamon or on self-serving orders given by the forsaken (and then variously stretched to their own ends) rather than to any coherent overall plan so spotting them based on actions is not easy.   Wieramon appeared to be acting on orders which did not allow him to kill Rand, but either his own inclination or his orders involved escalating any confrontation to actual war to sow division and weaken Rand's forces.