Hinderstep, does it get cut for the TV show?

[Scarloc99]

The events of Mat going to Hinderstep are a fun little aside that shows the potential risks to the world if the dark one gets free, while also playing a key part in the last battle, one of Mats moments of tactical genius. 

But, with only 64 hours does Hinderstep need to be in the TV show? 

Pros - it is a nice, self contained, little story that can easily be told in a few scenes in an episode, it is easy to film and would make for some good TV. It helps tell the story of Mats transformation from vagabond who supposedly does not want to be the hero and general, to the leader he becomes showing real compassion for the villagers. Finally that set piece moment at the last battle of all the villagers dying, then coming back again, would make for a great TV moment, and, it is a moment that does matter to the final battle so ticks those boxes. 

Cons - It is what 20/30 - 45 mins of TV time you lose to tell other things (counting both the initial village scenes and then the moments at the last battle) and as has been discussed we are already cutting out key moments from the TV show already, is Hinderstep important enough to count or can that battle for the dam happen another way? 

So thoughts, does Hinderstep get cut from your version of the tv show, personally I think it should stay in, the visuals of it make for a great little TV moment that is different to other TV shows out there. 

[DojoToad]

Doesn't make my version.  One of my least favorite parts of the books - just a step ahead of Luca's circus.

[DaddyFinn]

37 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

just a step ahead of Luca's circus.

Never understood the hate for that

[SinisterDeath]

7 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Pros - it is a nice, self contained, little story that can easily be told in a few scenes in an episode, it is easy to film and would make for some good TV. It helps tell the story of Mats transformation from vagabond who supposedly does not want to be the hero and general, to the leader he becomes showing real compassion for the villagers. Finally that set piece moment at the last battle of all the villagers dying, then coming back again, would make for a great TV moment, and, it is a moment that does matter to the final battle so ticks those boxes. 

IMO, if they're ever going show any of the Horror elements from the books in the TV series, this scene is a must have.

If they're going to downplay horror, they can skip it.

[A Memory Of Why]

Let's not forget about Joline in her gentle underthings.

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Never understood the hate for that

Personal preference I guess. I actually liked a lot of the characters from the circus including Luca, but the whole high-wire act with Elayne was too much for me. 

[Mailman]

19 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

The events of Mat going to Hinderstep are a fun little aside that shows the potential risks to the world if the dark one gets free, while also playing a key part in the last battle, one of Mats moments of tactical genius. 

But, with only 64 hours does Hinderstep need to be in the TV show? 

Pros - it is a nice, self contained, little story that can easily be told in a few scenes in an episode, it is easy to film and would make for some good TV. It helps tell the story of Mats transformation from vagabond who supposedly does not want to be the hero and general, to the leader he becomes showing real compassion for the villagers. Finally that set piece moment at the last battle of all the villagers dying, then coming back again, would make for a great TV moment, and, it is a moment that does matter to the final battle so ticks those boxes. 

Cons - It is what 20/30 - 45 mins of TV time you lose to tell other things (counting both the initial village scenes and then the moments at the last battle) and as has been discussed we are already cutting out key moments from the TV show already, is Hinderstep important enough to count or can that battle for the dam happen another way? 

So thoughts, does Hinderstep get cut from your version of the tv show, personally I think it should stay in, the visuals of it make for a great little TV moment that is different to other TV shows out there. 

They dont have time for it the book battle would take a couple of episodes by itself in a faithful adaption and I would be amazed if that length was given to it.

 

They have so little leeway and remember we are probably adding in massive amounts of Moiraine and Lan time already, cannot see her going missing for over 2/3 of the series.

[nsmallw]

Neither the circus nor Hinderstep are needed in the show T

They don't advance the plot and take up too much time that could be better spent with 

character development. 

[AdamA]

I actually think it's one of the better chances at a great episode a la Game of Thrones Season 5 Hardhome (which wasn't even depicted in the book). Really show what's at stake, how much damage the dark one can actually do.

 

It is unfortunate that the book length and show shortness are going to force a lot of cuts, but I'd first look to seriously trimming down things like Elayne's succession drama, Faile's kidnapping, and healing the weather, which, for what it's worth, I actually liked, but don't see that it adds a ton of value compared to every other subplot and it takes up a lot of time. Just need some other way of meeting and introducing the knitting circle.

[DojoToad]

47 minutes ago, AdamA said:

It is unfortunate that the book length and show shortness are going to force a lot of cuts, but I'd first look to seriously trimming down things like Elayne's succession drama, Faile's kidnapping, and healing the weather,

They should cut some/all of that - but the question is will it be to provide room for canon material like Hinderstap or for more Stepin-like arcs?

Edited November 10, 2022 by DojoToad

[Cauthonfan4]

Personally i am completely fine with them cutting hinderstep. 

[Guire]

Right now I did not really care for season 1.  But I have also figured out I will watch season 2 for at least half the season.  With the shows current trajectory of expanding Moraines and probably wonder girls I can't envision room for lots of the flavor arcs like Hinderstrap. However if Rafe and Co can pull off a successful series maybe we can get an animated version that leans into the battle elements and horror that a live version will struggle to realize on screen.  Wheel of Time in Castlevania mode would be great.

 

[Guire]

Also an animated version would possible target a more hard core and younger version than live show.  Giving Amazon much more merchandise and tie in options through potential games, comics, and expansion stories in animations.  Randland is a massive world to play in.  I don't think current live version  plays into all the expansion opportunities.  They could have a twenty year run of animation and never run out of material. 

[wotfan4472]

Better yet, I think WoT would make a great video game series.

[Skipp]

Maybe Hinderstrap could be done as a slightly longer WoT origin when the time comes.

[Scarloc99]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:00 PM, AdamA said:

I actually think it's one of the better chances at a great episode a la Game of Thrones Season 5 Hardhome (which wasn't even depicted in the book). Really show what's at stake, how much damage the dark one can actually do.

 

It is unfortunate that the book length and show shortness are going to force a lot of cuts, but I'd first look to seriously trimming down things like Elayne's succession drama, Faile's kidnapping, and healing the weather, which, for what it's worth, I actually liked, but don't see that it adds a ton of value compared to every other subplot and it takes up a lot of time. Just need some other way of meeting and introducing the knitting circle.

Healing the weather and faile kidnapping have no relevance to the last battle and I agree therefore can be cut. I also liked them but you have to apply the Peter Jackson approach to the series, start at the end and then trace the storylines back from

there. It is why I am torn on Hinderstep, but it is a self contained little story that doesn’t have a mass domino effect, so you can include it as is regardless of how the rest of the story has been changed, but, it does take up time. 

[nsmallw]

While we're on the topic of storylines that could be cut from the show, I'd add the Atha'an Miere as has been kinda suggested in this thread to be left out of the show but also The Kin as well. 

Also, reducing the amount of time covering plots such as Elayne's throne struggle and Faile's capture.

[Stedding Tofu]

Hinderstap can defo go.

 

Cut Nynaeve and Elayne going to Tanchico and you can cut the whole Luca circus as well.

 

Cut fixing the weather and you can cut the whole sideshow in Ebou Dar with The Bowl of The Winds, Mat and Tylin (I'm going to have you for supper, duckling! 😮), The Kin.

 

Ofc you'll need to find something for these characters to do and work out how to bring Tuon in.

 

Cut the Andoran succession drama (which was dry as dust) and Elayne is short of a role altogether.

 

Remove tons of the Aes Sedai politicking and put Egwene outside the White Tower much sooner.  Work the Black Tower stuff in earlier.

 

My view after reading Lord of Chaos was that we were about ready for Tarmon Gai'don.  Take out Sammael and bring in the Seanchan in one season (7) rather than two books.

 

Wrap up Masema with minimal fuss, Faile can preside over The Two Rivers in Perrin's absence as a Lady would for her Lord, put Elayne on the Lion Throne and have Rand cleanse saidin in one season (8).

 

Have Rand's crisis, (Semirhage's ploy, Tam, Dragonmount), Egwene's rise to power (capture, the Seanchan attack on The Tower and Egwene becoming Amyrlin), Perrin getting the Whitecloaks in hand and Mat rescuing Moiriane as the set-up to TG in one season (9).

 

TG in one season (10).  Before your actors have white hair.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Stedding Tofu said:

Hinderstap can defo go.

 

Cut Nynaeve and Elayne going to Tanchico and you can cut the whole Luca circus as well.

 

Cut fixing the weather and you can cut the whole sideshow in Ebou Dar with The Bowl of The Winds, Mat and Tylin (I'm going to have you for supper, duckling! 😮), The Kin.

 

Ofc you'll need to find something for these characters to do and work out how to bring Tuon in.

 

Cut the Andoran succession drama (which was dry as dust) and Elayne is short of a role altogether.

 

Remove tons of the Aes Sedai politicking and put Egwene outside the White Tower much sooner.  Work the Black Tower stuff in earlier.

 

My view after reading Lord of Chaos was that we were about ready for Tarmon Gai'don.  Take out Sammael and bring in the Seanchan in one season (7) rather than two books.

 

Wrap up Masema with minimal fuss, Faile can preside over The Two Rivers in Perrin's absence as a Lady would for her Lord, put Elayne on the Lion Throne and have Rand cleanse saidin in one season (8).

 

Have Rand's crisis, (Semirhage's ploy, Tam, Dragonmount), Egwene's rise to power (capture, the Seanchan attack on The Tower and Egwene becoming Amyrlin), Perrin getting the Whitecloaks in hand and Mat rescuing Moiriane as the set-up to TG in one season (9).

 

TG in one season (10).  Before your actors have white hair.

I could get with most if not all of this.  Devil is in the details though.  And keep in mind that Rafe is still in charge.  Will he cut a bunch of book stuff just so he can add additional unnecessary stuff?

[Cipher]

On 11/11/2022 at 3:29 AM, Guire said:

Right now I did not really care for season 1.  But I have also figured out I will watch season 2 for at least half the season.  With the shows current trajectory of expanding Moraines and probably wonder girls I can't envision room for lots of the flavor arcs like Hinderstrap. However if Rafe and Co can pull off a successful series maybe we can get an animated version that leans into the battle elements and horror that a live version will struggle to realize on screen.  Wheel of Time in Castlevania mode would be great.

 

This series can probably only be done justice in animation.  But people with their agendas will still mess it up.  LoTR movies were good because they were mostly faithful to tone and story of the source material.  WoT has room to be improved, but only in dialog and motivations of characters and trimming of fat imo.