Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[KakitaOCU]

44 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Wait. Nyneave did stuff which was a bit silly yes, but what in the world did Egwene do channelling wise? She threw the smallest bit of fire ever at Valda and then was used as a battery by Amalisa. Sure she shouldn't be able to link at this point really, but that's pretty minor to be honest.

When Nynaeve nearly burns out and Egwene channels and helps her.

Some have jumped to the conclusion that Nynaeve completely flat lined and died and Egwene healed death.

[Spiritweaver1]

14 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Actually for book purposes / breaking the link to the horn that is not when he was dead - at the end it is indicated that that was in the raid in Caemlyn against Rhavin when both Mat and Avienda were definately dead (along with others) from the lightning strikes and that was then undone by Rands sizable balefire on Rhavin.  The hanging in Ruidean was survivable (with aid) asphyxiation without brain death.

Umm I am not really sure that this position is true.  As I understand it Balefire rewinds time so that whatever was destroyed had no effect on the time line for a period of time depending on the strength of the balefire.  When Rand blasted Rahvin, Ravhin's destruction of the posse never happened, ergo the link with the horn was not severed because Matt never died.   Unless I missed something in some secret archive ?

[Gothic Flame]

5 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

When Rand blasted Rahvin, Ravhin's destruction of the posse never happened, ergo the link with the horn was not severed because Matt never died.   Unless I missed something in some secret archive ?

Darkhound. Slobbering all over him. He was with a maiden...tall blonde. Don't recall the name offhand.

[Spiritweaver1]

3 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Darkhound. Slobbering all over him. He was with a maiden...tall blonde. Don't recall the name offhand.

Same thing.  Instead of being dead Matt ended up only with a little slobber which apparently could be healed by Moraine.  Still no dead.  I haven't looked up his girlfriends name but she was a dark friend I do remember that.   I do remember my first reading I thought balefire was the answer to all the bad things in Randland.   

[ashi]

23 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Umm I am not really sure that this position is true.  As I understand it Balefire rewinds time so that whatever was destroyed had no effect on the time line for a period of time depending on the strength of the balefire.  When Rand blasted Rahvin, Ravhin's destruction of the posse never happened, ergo the link with the horn was not severed because Matt never died.   Unless I missed something in some secret archive ?

 

Quote

A Memory of Light, chapter 39

 “I did die,” Mat said, rubbing at the scar on his neck. “Apparently that tree claimed me.”
 “Not the tree, Gambler,” Hawkwing said. “Another moment, one that you cannot remember. It is fitting, as Lews Therin did save your life both times.”

 

Pretty clearly implied to be Caemlyn, though it could be that Jordan intended otherwise. Possibly the link to the Horn is metaphysical, and not part of the pattern that is recreated with the effects of Balefire.

Edited January 24, 2022 by ashi

[Spiritweaver1]

2 minutes ago, ashi said:

 

 

 

Thought it could be that Jordan intended otherwise.

Hmm it may be but that would seem to be plot foolishness on RJ's part.  Of course it is his world but as best as I could ever make out time worked the same as in our world.  Of course there were the world's of if accessible via the portal stone.  But if an event did not happen then it just did not happen.  There is a fork in the timeline.  oh wait this isn't the Flash. 

[Raal Gurniss]

11 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Hmm it may be but that would seem to be plot foolishness on RJ's part.  Of course it is his world but as best as I could ever make out time worked the same as in our world.  Of course there were the world's of if accessible via the portal stone.  But if an event did not happen then it just did not happen.  There is a fork in the timeline.  oh wait this isn't the Flash. 

It’s Rafe’s world now and time flows as quickly as he commands as does the reality therein, literally anything can happen…..

Edited January 24, 2022 by Raal Gurniss

[Gothic Flame]

17 minutes ago, ashi said:

 

 

Pretty clearly implied to be Caemlyn, though it could be that Jordan intended otherwise. Possibly the link to the Horn is metaphysical, and not part of the pattern that is recreated with the effects of Balefire.

Magic and spirit are indeed part of the Pattern.

[Ralph]

Melindhra

 

 

Novices were part of circles in Salidar, as I said a while ago. Sorry haven't had time to look up until now. 

 

LoC ch 14

The glow of the Power surrounded Anaiya, but not only her; the single light enveloped as well two more fully clothed Aes Sedai, an Accepted in a robe, and three novices, two in their shifts. One of those in her shift was Nicola. Nynaeve could see other glowing groups, dozens and dozens of them, moving in the street. Some seemed all Aes Sedai, but most not.

 

Ch15

Last night Anaiya let slip that you had a plan ready in case one of the Forsaken attacked. All those circles linking, right on top of the bubble of evil — do you finally believe in that? — but all mismatched and most with more novices than Aes Sedai. Because only a few Aes Sedai knew beforehand.

[Mailman]

4 hours ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Umm I am not really sure that this position is true.  As I understand it Balefire rewinds time so that whatever was destroyed had no effect on the time line for a period of time depending on the strength of the balefire.  When Rand blasted Rahvin, Ravhin's destruction of the posse never happened, ergo the link with the horn was not severed because Matt never died.   Unless I missed something in some secret archive ?

Its a paradox people still remember seeing Mat Asmodean and Aviendha dead from the lightning strikes yet they are not dead.

 

Balefire removes the things that happened because of the one erased but they did in fact happen regardless. So Mat was in fact dead till Rahvin was balefired then he was not dead anymore.

 

Its part of the reason that it is so dangerous to the pattern,

Edited January 25, 2022 by Mailman

[ilovezam]

8 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

Wait. Nyneave did stuff which was a bit silly yes, but what in the world did Egwene do channelling wise? She threw the smallest bit of fire ever at Valda and then was used as a battery by Amalisa. Sure she shouldn't be able to link at this point really, but that's pretty minor to be honest.

She Healed Nynaeve after she's been burnt out and no longer breathing. Sure she may be just very very nearly dead. But that's still pretty out there. 

[ilovezam]

7 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

Some have jumped to the conclusion that Nynaeve completely flat lined and died and Egwene healed death.

Man I feel like you have taken it upon yourself to repeat this over and over again, but many of us accept that "yeah okay she wasn't dead" because the crew said so, but Egwene healing a burnt out and a very nearly dead Nynaeve is still ludicrous, and I suspect you you know it.

[KakitaOCU]

47 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

Man I feel like you have taken it upon yourself to repeat this over and over again, but many of us accept that "yeah okay she wasn't dead" because the crew said so, but Egwene healing a burnt out and a very nearly dead Nynaeve is still ludicrous, and I suspect you you know it.

The argument made by Raal and Cauthon and others is that we're healing outright death.  So yeah, some accept she wasn't dead and others insist it was healing death.

But discussing your view of Egwene healing near death from burn out.  That really is a WAFO.  Maybe it's ridiculous over the top, maybe in the rules for the show verse it just needs an immediate thread.  She doesn't channel a lot, it's a normal thread for her, not like Nynaeve's nova.

So maybe it's a big deal, maybe it's just not explained yet.  Either way, thank you for discussing a point instead of shouting "Bad Writing, everyone knows it".  I appreciate the honest conversation.

Edited January 25, 2022 by KakitaOCU

[ilovezam]

15 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

The argument made by Raal and Cauthon and others is that we're healing outright death.  So yeah, some accept she wasn't dead and others insist it was healing death.

 

But discussing your view of Egwene healing near death from burn out.  That really is a WAFO.  Maybe it's ridiculous over the top, maybe in the rules for the show verse it just needs an immediate thread.  She doesn't channel a lot, it's a normal thread for her, not like Nynaeve's nova.

I'm searching through their profiles and I see Cauthon specifically call it "near death". I think the thing they're mostly complaining about was on whether Nynaeve was presented as dead in the show, and I would think yes - a good portion of viewers thought she looked very dead, and without that makeup artist clearing things up in the interview we would never have known that they intended for her to be seen as not dead, and to more casual viewers who aren't doing research and reading interviews/board discussions they might just assume that Egwene maybe brought someone back from the dead.

 

I do hope it is explained away nicely in the show somehow, but at the same time I'm also thinking maybe it's better for them to never touch on this ever again, because it's going to raise so many problems if burn-out could be healed somewhat easily by channelers with no Talent in healing. I'm imagining a circle of women just channeling to a breaking point and destroying large hordes of Trollocs and a backup team of Yellows just healing them all. ?

[Ralph]

2 hours ago, ilovezam said:

that makeup artist clearing things up in the interview  

 

Look at Liandrin in the cave as well, when M warns her she may burn out

[DaddyFinn]

11 hours ago, Skipp said:

You are not wrong at all.  The feats that the channelers have done in the show seems to exceed what could be done in the books.  Even Moiraine's defense in the TR seems more than she could do in the books.  this is certainly the showrunners using the visual medium for spectacle. 

 

We can only see if this becomes an issue going forward

Moiraine ripped the earth open and created a wall of fire, right? When the trollocs attacked the group on the hills/plains. I think overall the Aes Sedai were much weaker in the first book(s) and were buffed later. Maybe that's just because RJ hadn't worked out the magic system completely?

[EmreY]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

Moiraine ripped the earth open and created a wall of fire, right? When the trollocs attacked the group on the hills/plains. I think overall the Aes Sedai were much weaker in the first book(s) and were buffed later. Maybe that's just because RJ hadn't worked out the magic system completely?

 

I swear when I first encountered ter'angreal, I went, "Oh, no not again" before I realised they were something else. ? 

[DaddyFinn]

I started a rewatch a couple of days ago and I think the season just gets better and better now that I know how the story plays out. I see why the show is supposed to be "bingeable".

[SinisterDeath]

I'm locking this because people apparently don't understand how staying on topic works.