Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

4 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Uhhh, what? Thom said that "gleemen" is a silly name and then made the familiar point that bards and musicians know the past. I'm not sure where you're getting throwing people off of scents.

Rand was like, "You know a lot for a gleeman" and then Thom responded with something like, "We call ourselves gleemen because it sounds harmless. Nothing is more dangerous than a man know knows the past." 

 

What else could this possibly be implying? 

 

"We call ourselves gleemen in order to make people think that we're harmless when in reality we're not." 

 

That's the definition of trying to throw someone off a scent. 

[Sabio]

Thom also wasn't your average Gleeman.

[Jaysen Gore]

14 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Rand was like, "You know a lot for a gleeman" and then Thom responded with something like, "We call ourselves gleemen because it sounds harmless. Nothing is more dangerous than a man know knows the past." 

 

What else could this possibly be implying? 

 

"We call ourselves gleemen in order to make people think that we're harmless when in reality we're not." 

 

That's the definition of trying to throw someone off a scent. 

Insert book quote about all Gleemen having an elevated sense of themselves here.  Thom's not wrong, but his ego is showing.

 

I also really like the reference in this thread to Celtic Bards, who were way, way more than minstrels.

[Elder_Haman]

22 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Rand was like, "You know a lot for a gleeman" and then Thom responded with something like, "We call ourselves gleemen because it sounds harmless. Nothing is more dangerous than a man know knows the past." 

 

What else could this possibly be implying? 

 

"We call ourselves gleemen in order to make people think that we're harmless when in reality we're not." 

 

That's the definition of trying to throw someone off a scent. 

It implies that gleemen know the past and are therefore dangerous. The mysterious musician is hardly an unusual fantasy trope. 

[ArrylT]

Small favor to ask - at least of those that enjoyed Episode 4 (and slight mention in 5):

 

I am aiming to write a short memorial poem / story / something about Kerene Sedai and was hoping to get other peoples thoughts & feelings about her as part of my inspiration / muse.   Similar to my efforts with Laila & Stepin.

 

Alas my twitter post hasnt got much engagement (no surprise since my account is smaller than small).   So if you have any positive thoughts about that character from Episode 4 please feel free to share - privately if that makes you more comfortable.  

[expat]

Quote

It's not your job to make up reasons that stuff in the show makes sense. It's the writers' job to make sure things make sense. If you have to cover for them, then yes, you are using head canon to excuse bad writing. 

You can't have it both ways.  The reason people like the books is because of the imagination required to take the often incomplete/obscure written words and see them in our minds.  A visual adaptation already greatly reduces this feeling because they have to show the scene, leaving less room for our imagination.  Now you want the show writers to beat us over the head with a two by four explanation of every point to ensure that it is obvious to all viewers.  I and probably you would find such an adaption to be extremely tedious and boring.

 

About the particular line.  Sorry that you don't like it, but it struck me as obvious and a bit trite.  My background is 35+ years in military intelligence and I may be biased, but information/knowledge is often tightly controlled by governments.  Just look at China or North Korea and their censorship/control of the internet within their countries.

Edited December 14, 2021 by expat

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

3 hours ago, expat said:

About the particular line.  Sorry that you don't like it, but it struck me as obvious and a bit trite.  My background is 35+ years in military intelligence and I may be biased, but information/knowledge is often tightly controlled by governments.  Just look at China or North Korea and their censorship/control of the internet within their countries.

Or in world the AS and their inveterate habit of hiding information - "sealed to the stole/hall/shawl/flame" are classic levels of secrecy, and it is clearly stated that they have repeatedly concealed or re-written history to hide internal divisions or weakness.  It is also heavily implied that they actively conspire to conceal information even from themselves - e.g. the habit of never discussing age was apparently instituted when they resolved to take on the 3 oaths - they knew this was costing them years and they actively conspired to hide this from future initiates to the point that it is now forgotten.  The loss of traveling is perhaps more explicable against this background (they did not teach apprentices to stop them from running off using it, control being more important than anything else).

Edited December 14, 2021 by bringbackthomsmoustache
spelling

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, ArrylT said:

Small favor to ask - at least of those that enjoyed Episode 4 (and slight mention in 5):

 

I am aiming to write a short memorial poem / story / something about Kerene Sedai and was hoping to get other peoples thoughts & feelings about her as part of my inspiration / muse.   Similar to my efforts with Laila & Stepin.

 

Alas my twitter post hasnt got much engagement (no surprise since my account is smaller than small).   So if you have any positive thoughts about that character from Episode 4 please feel free to share - privately if that makes you more comfortable.  

2 scenes of hers standout amongst the rest of the episode.

 

The first being her familiar bond with Stepin, a relationship not all that different from Lan and Moiraine.  Even Stepin's past about having a deathwish and Kerene finding a better use for him tracks, a bit at least.

 

The second being her talking with Liandrin about how Tower law states they take Logain in ungentled shows that she is a true believer of what Aes Sedai are meant to be.  This echos with Suian's mention that the laws are not there for the Aes Sedai's safety rather for the safety of all the people from Aes Sedai.  Servants of All

[dwn]

On 12/11/2021 at 3:48 PM, Sabio said:

That is Perrin in the first few books, he's the one who quietly goes along.  As Rand argues with Moiraine, Perrin is more of the silently sit there waiting to find out what to do.  I don't think it's until book 4, when he goes back to the Two Rivers is when starts having a personality.  Mostly you get thoughts from Perrin and lot of smelling.

 

Perrin got a personality once Faile showed up in TDR. (I predict this comment will cause absolutely no controversy whatsoever.)

 

[Quiksilver]

Logged into my account for the first time in 13 years to post this.

 

I was hopeful for the show, and I'm hopeful for Season 2 _{(only if some key people can be replaced, see last line of post)}

 

Extremely disappointed in the show thus far however.

 

The writing thus far (eps 1-6) has been an unmitigated disaster, and the overall production and cinematography feels amateurish and low budget. The scene lighting is especially terrible.

 

The casting feels okay and certainly isn't the cause for my disappointment (aside from the usual Loial appearance joke).

 

I didn't expect a purist adaptation, and I don't mind changes like cutting out Caemlyn in favor of Tar Valon, or pushing back Thom development till later in the saga. Those are realistic and practical changes to save $$$.

 

 

 

 

Cast - 3.5/5                   _{(Nynaeve is perfect!)}

Cinematography - 2.9/5

Writing - 1.9/5

Production - 2.9/5

Music - 4/5

Action - 3/5

Pacing - 1.9/5

Logic - 2/5

Dialog - 3/5

Editing - 2.9/5

Costume design - 3.4/5       _{(where is the armor???)}

Camera work - 3/5

 

Overall - 2.9/5       (as of s01e06)

 

 

For a $10 million per episode epic, it should be 4+ across the board! You can buy good writers, you can buy good cinematography, you can buy good action, you can buy good editing.

 

 

The technical teams are obviously professionals, maybe covid affected things more than I am aware of, so I give them benefit of the doubt with some of the production, and I'm hopeful for improvements in season 2.

 

However the writing, dialog and editing feels like nothing less than an attack on the books & Robert Jordan's story.

 

Amazon needs to immediately replace the show runner and writers and also replace any book/source-material consultants. The team involved in set/scene lighting also need to be replaced, and we need to know why so little $$$ is being spent on costume/armor/etc. This production can be saved!

Edited December 14, 2021 by Quiksilver

[notpropaganda73]

So my best friend, who is a big fan of the books but has a terrible memory and hasn't read them in a long time, is really enjoying the show! I have to say I am pretty surprised by it, he can be quite cynical by nature haha, he also works as an art director for film & television so he watches TV and movies a lot differently to me (he tends to look at scenes and think about how they built the set/how many takes were needed/continuity - that sort of thing). We talked about the show before it came out, he thought the first trailer looked quite bad but the final trailer got him curious - but when we talked he was saying how he just couldn't imagine how they would make the world as rich as the books. He said "Wheel of Time is the best worldbuilding I've seen in anything - movies, books, television". 

 

So he's a big fan but as I said his memory for detail in these series isn't great, and he hasn't read the books for a long time. But he said he's really enjoying it, more than he expected to. He thinks the cast is stellar, and he loves the set design and especially the costumes. He has criticisms and agrees there are some shoddy "jumps" scene-to-scene or plot-to-plot, but overall he's excited to see where it goes. Episode 4 was his favourite (and that seems to be a consensus amongst book readers?). He had some questions for me as he couldn't remember certain things, but overall he thinks the show is doing a really good job considering where his expectations were. 

 

Anyway, just thought I'd share another POV. I am really surprised by his reaction being honest! 

[Gothic Flame]

36 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

So apparently, out of the $10M/episode, $2.5M goes to hand & face sanitizing products, $1.5M is for the giant cheese wheel that the crew feeds off during filming, $1M is for the bouncy castle rental and other incidentals, $4.5M is for all those late night Uber/Lyft fares to and from Tar Valon to the nearest RiteAid and the remaining $.5M is split across lighting, props, sets and the coin operated horsey ride next to the men's bathroom.

This is my shocked face.

[Spiritweaver1]

On 12/12/2021 at 2:02 PM, ArrylT said:

 

 

Balance balance balance.  The Wheel spins and what comes around goes around in a sense.

 

Guess we'll see how 7 & 8 play out.

Balance is very important to wheels, if they get out of balance they start wobbling and then somebody has to grease them because they start to squeak.  When I was employed we had a saying in my company.  The squeaky wheel gets the grease ... or gets replaced.  I guess RJ's wheel got replaced because of balance issues?  Just wondering.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Spiritweaver1
To make it easier to see my little humor

[Chivalry]

I'm not happy that Mat left his colleagues at the Waygate.

 

Hopefully, the WOT team doesn't merge his character with Bela to solve the whole 'horse trader without horses' dilemma. 

[SinisterDeath]

4 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

I'm not happy that Mat left his colleagues at the Waygate.

 

Hopefully, the WOT team doesn't merge his character with Bela to solve the whole 'horse trader without horses' dilemma. 

No worries, Moiraine left Mat 8 horses to round up and sell. One of which is a Warhorse, and hers probably came from good stock... easily half to three quarter of a years worth of silver to live off of.

[Gothic Flame]

Just for the funny;

 

[dwn]

If Machin Shin doesn't look exactly like that in the show I will be sorely disappointed.

[Sabio]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

No worries, Moiraine left Mat 8 horses to round up and sell. One of which is a Warhorse, and hers probably came from good stock... easily half to three quarter of a years worth of silver to live off of.

Is it odd they let the horses go without anyone apparently getting their supplies from the horses first?

[Sabio]

9 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

"Where we're going we don't need foods." -Moiraine Sedai, Back to the Future

Does that mean a waygate looks like this?

[SinisterDeath]

59 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Is it odd they let the horses go without anyone apparently getting their supplies from the horses first?

It's odd to me that they didn't bring the horses with them. (Safety wise, I wouldn't bring horses up those steps!)
Wasn't Lan carrying something with him thru the gate?

[Skipp]

11 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

It's odd to me that they didn't bring the horses with them. (Safety wise, I wouldn't bring horses up those steps!)
Wasn't Lan carrying something with him thru the gate?

Lan certainly had a pack and a couple of lanterns

[Jaysen Gore]

I'm sure they'll have Mandarb corral the horses back to TV.  Cause he's smart like that. Might even corral Mat in the process

 

[WheelofJuke]

13 hours ago, Dead Warder said:

... the remaining $.5M is split across lighting, props, sets and the coin operated horsey ride next to the men's bathroom.

MANDARB?! 

[WheelofJuke]

49 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

However, comma, how awesome would it be to have a DeLorean as a ter'angreal?

 

Hrmm? Take it wherever you want to travel to, to whatever Age.

 

Let that sink in a bit.

 

I just thought of that and I about gave myself a chubby.

Yeah but if that means Biff making a pass at my mother, I dunno. ?

Edited December 15, 2021 by WheelofJuke

[Chivalry]

38 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I'm sure they'll have Mandarb corral the horses back to TV.  Cause he's smart like that. Might even corral Mat in the process

 

I assumed that was the case when Moraine "talked" to her horse (?Aldieb).