[Spoilers - Full book and released Show] Tiny Things.

[EmreY]

Episode 7, Elmindreda:

 

"something ... impossible"

[Gary Reborn]

I really appreciate the tiny pauses in between Loial’s words as he patiently paces things out. Your lines sing in my ears builder!

[WhiteVeils]

In the beginning credits, right after the white thread snaps, but before the gold threads begin, in the darkness you see 3 points of golden light, followed very quickly by 2 more points of golden light, then you get dozens of points. From these points you get all the golden threads that draw out the tapestry.

Take what symbolism you will, but I take the 3 as Rand, Mat, and Perrin, the 2 as Egwene and Nynaeve, and the rest all the people they meet on their journey that get caught up in the story.

[ArrylT]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:30 PM, Wassup said:

A couple things I have seen mentioned somewhere else:

 

a stones board on the table in the Winespring Inn. 
 

the way the tinkers linked arms to block the white cloaks. I thought this was a nod to how the Aiel did this to hold off one of the forsaken so people could flee to safety 3000  years before. It would have been interesting if they had started singing. 

 

It looks like there is a Snakes & foxes & game in the tavern in Fal Dara

 

 

[DaddyFinn]

On 12/31/2021 at 6:07 PM, WhiteVeils said:

In the beginning credits, right after the white thread snaps, but before the gold threads begin, in the darkness you see 3 points of golden light, followed very quickly by 2 more points of golden light, then you get dozens of points. From these points you get all the golden threads that draw out the tapestry.

Take what symbolism you will, but I take the 3 as Rand, Mat, and Perrin, the 2 as Egwene and Nynaeve, and the rest all the people they meet on their journey that get caught up in the story.

That's a nice catch! I think this has been mentioned before, but the fact that Madeleine is the last person mentioned just before the thread snaps.. Oof. ?

[DaddyFinn]

 

That's an interesting notion. And as someone mentioned in the comments, there's 8 cracks and 13 "slices". ?

 

[VooDooNut]

36 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

 

That's an interesting notion. And as someone mentioned in the comments, there's 8 cracks and 13 "slices". ?

 

This made me go back and rewatch this sequence, and I just noticed that you can see Ishy's lines of darkness in this shot:

The lines are very dark and blend in with the pattern of the seal, but if you watch the scene you will see them moving, rather sinuously, into Ishy's body. I can see what looks like 8 or so thick bands of darkness that are seeping into Ishy from top and bottom of middle-frame.

This just shows off how awesome of a weave this was that Rand cast. His moments may not have been as flashy this season, but this shot was awesome.

So I'm not well versed enough with The Forsaken to see all the hidden clues in this shot, but I do wonder if the crack that lies under Moiraine is a nod to

Spoiler

her eventual battle with Lanfear

Maybe someone with a better memory for The Forsaken could say if the way the other lines are placed has anything to do with foreshadowing.

[DaddyFinn]

8 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

Maybe someone with a better memory for The Forsaken could say if the way the other lines are placed has anything to do with foreshadowing.

Five of those are in a tight small group and three more spread out. I could see Lanfear being the one below Moiraine and Ishy being the largest one.

 

Edit. The two mentioned are pretty much similar in size. They both reach the other side of the seal.

Edited January 6, 2022 by DaddyFinn

[Skipp]

Nice catch, might be coincidence  but maybe not!

[DaddyFinn]

10 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Nice catch, might be coincidence  but maybe not!

Honestly, I think that Rafe&Co are definitely clever enough for small stuff like that

[WhiteVeils]

I want to do a proper rewatch through and catch more, but I did notice this one:

S01E08:  In the scene where Lan is gazing out the window wanting to go after Moiraine and Nynaeve comes to him, NEVER in that scene does Lan say he does not know how to find Moiraine on his own without Nynaeve's "tell."  He only says that Moiraine does not want him to follow her. At the end of the scene, he does ask Nynaeve what tell she followed, but he's been curious about that since Episode 2.  It does not mean he can't find Moiraine without it.  

I thought it was a neat little observation, because it means it's perfectly possible that he's torn between staying with Nynaeve (to protect her from the invasion) and following Moiraine, and he knows Moiraine wants him to stay with Nynaeve.  He is weighing it on the side of staying, but when Nynaeve urges him to go, he goes. It is Nynaeve who assumes that he can't find Moiraine without the 'tell'.

[ashi]

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

Nynaeve comes to him, NEVER in that scene does Lan say he does not know how to find Moiraine on his own without Nynaeve's "tell."

 

I thought it was a neat little observation, because it means it's perfectly possible that he's torn between staying with Nynaeve (to protect her from the invasion) and following Moiraine

 

Maybe technically possible, but 1) the scene doesn't support it:

 

Quote

[Nynaeve] After the Trolloc attack in the Two Rivers, when I followed you... It wasn't you who I tracked. It was her. She has a tell. I can show you how.

[Lan] You would let me go without you?

[...]

[Lan] Tell me how to find them.

 

and 2) the suggested motivation (in bold) above is impossible due to the timeline:

 

Quote

SCENE05 (08:25) - [Nynaeve] She has a tell.

 

SCENE11 (19:03) - Rand and Moiraine continue to navigate the Blight.

{They look through a gap in the trees and see an army of Trollocs approaching Tarwin's Gap in the distance.}

SCENE12 (19:29) - [Yakota] Our men in the fortress have spotted at least 60 Fades amongst them, so there must be at least 5,000 to 10,000. And there are still more Trollocs pouring out of the Blight and gathering at the mouth of Tarwin's Gap.

 

(Episode transcript from https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/rnuy01/s1e8_show_transcript/)

Edited January 16, 2022 by ashi

[WhiteVeils]

This is fair...he may not feel obliged to stay due to the trolloc invasion, though the idea he may feel obliged to stay to protect Nynaeve for other reasons, or just because Moiraine told him (in previous episodes) that the most important thing he had to do was protect those kids, is not impossible.

[Andra]

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

This is fair...he may not feel obliged to stay due to the trolloc invasion, though the idea he may feel obliged to stay to protect Nynaeve for other reasons, or just because Moiraine told him (in previous episodes) that the most important thing he had to do was protect those kids, is not impossible.

And we already knew from when she masked the bond in Tar Valon that he couldn't find her.

He may have been able to track her through the Blight the same way he could track an animal or any other person, but he definitely couldn't tell where she was.

[WhiteVeils]

21 minutes ago, Andra said:

And we already knew from when she masked the bond in Tar Valon that he couldn't find her.

He may have been able to track her through the Blight the same way he could track an animal or any other person, but he definitely couldn't tell where she was.

Which he could have at least been trying to do if he felt he should and didn't need another push.

[VooDooNut]

Can Rand see this stuff like he sees the taint? If so, it makes me think even more so that in the WOT show the taint on Saidin and the darkness of Shadar Logath are the same. Makes sense in a lot of ways to combine these two evils for a television-only audience.

 

edit: oh, he does mention when talking to Moiraine that he can see it, so that's a given, but I still wonder if it's a representation of the taint. This also explains why Moiraine is safe from the effects maybe? Saidar repels the taint? Just theorizing here.

Edited January 21, 2022 by VooDooNut
see edit

[Skipp]

2 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

Can Rand see this stuff like he sees the taint? If so, it makes me think even more so that in the WOT show the taint on Saidin and the darkness of Shadar Logath are the same. Makes sense in a lot of ways to combine these two evils for a television-only audience.

 

edit: oh, he does mention when talking to Moiraine that he can see it, so that's a given, but I still wonder if it's a representation of the taint. This also explains why Moiraine is safe from the effects maybe? Saidar repels the taint? Just theorizing here.

I personally felt it was more a representation of the creeping Shadows from SL rather than the DO's taint.  Having Rand actually see it is an interesting twist if Lan didn't.

[VooDooNut]

31 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I personally felt it was more a representation of the creeping Shadows from SL rather than the DO's taint.  Having Rand actually see it is an interesting twist if Lan didn't.

Yeah, I agree that it's the shadows of SL, but visually these shadows look nearly identical to the taint we see on Logain, when Rand channels, and the lines of darkness attached to Ishy in episode 8, so it makes me wonder if, for the show, the taint and the SL darkness will effectively come from the same source/be the same thing. At least that seems to be the case from a visual standpoint.

 

Fun little thing, in the photo I posted above, the light and tainted/shadowed parts of Moiraine's weave seem to make the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai, the yin-yang. ☯

[Andra]

3 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

Can Rand see this stuff like he sees the taint? If so, it makes me think even more so that in the WOT show the taint on Saidin and the darkness of Shadar Logath are the same. Makes sense in a lot of ways to combine these two evils for a television-only audience.

 

edit: oh, he does mention when talking to Moiraine that he can see it, so that's a given, but I still wonder if it's a representation of the taint. This also explains why Moiraine is safe from the effects maybe? Saidar repels the taint? Just theorizing here.

 

Everyone who was in Shadar Logoth could see Mashadar, and no one (besides the audience) who wasn't a male channeler could see the Saidin stuff.  So they can't be the same thing.  I doubt Rand was the only one who could see what was being drawn out of Mat, either.

[Andra]

Speaking of Shadar Logoth - I haven't seen anyone mention this, but ...

Where did the trollocs go?

 

In both the book and the show, the party went into SL as a last-ditch measure to get away from the trollocs, knowing they wouldn't enter willingly.  In the book, the trollocs and the fades driving them followed them in - which is why they left.  The trollocs continued chasing the boys (and Egwene) after they left until they were separated by the river.  They even continued along the shore until the boat left them behind.  Which is why Lan, Moiranie and Nynaeve didn't have to deal with them.

 

In the show, not only didn't the trollocs follow them in, they weren't outside when they left after no more than a few hours.  And no one seemed to be worried they might be.

 

Some might have lost the pursuit by using the river, but Lan and Moiraine rode out on horseback.  And Nynaeve would have had to go right through them to follow Moiraine's "tell."

 

And at that point, as far as anyone knew the trollocs had come on foot all the way from the Blight.  Tracking any or all of four people that were still nearby.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Andra

[notpropaganda73]

7 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

Can Rand see this stuff like he sees the taint? If so, it makes me think even more so that in the WOT show the taint on Saidin and the darkness of Shadar Logath are the same. Makes sense in a lot of ways to combine these two evils for a television-only audience.

 

I know this has been answered but just to expand a bit more, if they merged the two evils then it would completely change the cleansing of Saidin. I've been pretty open to changes so far but I genuinely have no idea how they are going to show the cleansing as it, but if they completely changed how it was done...

 

I also think if they were going to merge the two, Machin Shin and Mashadar would have essentially been the same. I made a similar point at the time, moreso from a TV execs perspective upon reading the script with Machin Shin and saying "didn't we have a sort of ethereal evil just a couple episodes ago?" 

[EmreY]

1 hour ago, notpropaganda73 said:

would completely change the cleansing of Saidin. I've been pretty open to changes so far but I genuinely have no idea how they are going to show the cleansing as it, but if they completely changed how it was done...

 

Ditto.

 

Edit: or, maybe, what if they gave Machin Shin the honours?

 

Cheaper than the pyrotechnics required for Shadar Logoth, and it would take care of this issue too: https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/110261-the-ways-in-the-fourth-age/ as there wouldn't be any...

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by EmreY

[Andra]

7 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

Ditto.

 

Edit: or, maybe, what if they gave Machin Shin the honours?

 

Cheaper than the pyrotechnics required for Shadar Logoth, and it would take care of this issue too: https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/110261-the-ways-in-the-fourth-age/ as there wouldn't be any...

 

 

Given the way they've avoided saying that Saidin and Saidar are different things (so far, the only mention of Saidin is in the LTT scene - and only in the spoken Old Tongue, not the English captions) I wouldn't be surprised if there is no Cleansing.  There has been a strong implication that men "corrupt" the Power, not the other way around.

[Skipp]

32 minutes ago, Andra said:

 

Given the way they've avoided saying that Saidin and Saidar are different things (so far, the only mention of Saidin is in the LTT scene - and only in the spoken Old Tongue, not the English captions) I wouldn't be surprised if there is no Cleansing.  There has been a strong implication that men "corrupt" the Power, not the other way around.

Except when Thom explained the the DO was the one to corrupt the One Power.  Or when LPP stated her fear that the DO would corrupt the One power.

 

The only real indication that men corrupt the OP is Liandrin's speech in episode one, but there is certainly no possible way that her personal bias is showing.

 

While I have no proof one way or another if they will include the cleansing or not I don't think there is anything in season one that would provide evidence of them not doing it.

 

Personally I am hoping we get more details of the One Power while the girls are training next season.  Possibly interlaced with Rand trying to figure it out on his own.

[Andra]

33 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Except when Thom explained the the DO was the one to corrupt the One Power.  Or when LPP stated her fear that the DO would corrupt the One power.

 

The only real indication that men corrupt the OP is Liandrin's speech in episode one, but there is certainly no possible way that her personal bias is showing.

 

While I have no proof one way or another if they will include the cleansing or not I don't think there is anything in season one that would provide evidence of them not doing it.

 

Personally I am hoping we get more details of the One Power while the girls are training next season.  Possibly interlaced with Rand trying to figure it out on his own.

 

I sincerely hope that they do.

Because as it sits right now there's no real indication to non-readers that they are two different things.  And they had a couple of easy opportunities to explain it to the viewers - both in the early episode when Moiraine starts teaching Egwene and in the last episode when she refuses to do the same for Rand - opportunities they completely missed.

In each case, it would have taken no more than a line or two of dialog.  Lines that were in the book, but removed from the show.  With Egwene, it was the explanation that it was male channelers, not Aes Sedai in general, who broke the world.  And it happened because the power they alone touched was tainted and drove them mad ("They were insane, not evil").  With Rand, it was her "can a bird teach a fish to fly?" adage.

 

Both those statements made it clear that they were different sources, and it was the male source that was the problem, not the men themselves or the Power in general.  And they're gone from the show.