How did the show hold up for you?

[Jaysen Gore]

7 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

where did you go to school?

90% and above is an A

80% to 89% is a B

70-79% is a C

60-69% is a D

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_the_United_States

 

Wow. I did not know that.  That's not even close to the system in use in Canada, which is also on the page

 

Numerical values in America are applied to grades as shown below:

• A = 4
• B = 3
• C = 2
• D = 1

This allows grades to be easily averaged. Additionally, many schools add .33 for a plus (+) grade and subtract .33 for a minus (−) grade. Thus, a B+ yields a 3.33 whereas an A− yields a 3.67.^[14] A-plusses, if given, are usually assigned a value of 4.0 (equivalent to an A) due to the common assumption that a 4.00 is the best possible grade-point average, although 4.33 is awarded at some institutions. In some places, .25 or .3 instead of .33 is added for a plus grade and subtracted for a minus grade. Other institutions maintain a mid-grade and award .5 for the grade. For example, an AB would receive a 3.5-grade point and a BC would receive a 2.5-grade point. The industry standard for graduation from undergraduate institutions is a minimum 2.0 average. 

[Scarloc99]

22 hours ago, ArrylT said:

 

Honestly, after listening to a podcast that specifically discusses what is involved in making a tv series, and how it relates to the Wheel of Time, I would say I am more firmly comfortable with that grade than I was before.  I was probably more of a 8.25/8.3 rounding up but now I can definitely say it is an 8.5.   And as someone who is currently watching S1 of The Witcher, when I go into comparing it to The Wheel of Time, I find it is lacking.   On its own it is enjoyable - but when doing a compare & contrast, The Wheel of Time is winning.   Obviously for others it will be different.   

 

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but as long as you pretend your opinion is fact, it will be hard to have a further discussion.   Regardless there are plenty of people who like/love the show while noting it is not perfect.   Whether you agree with where we rate the show is immaterial to me.    

which podcast was this?

 

[EmreY]

2 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

349770/49795 = an average of 7.02.

that means the average is around 70%, which would be around a C minus in school or a 1.7 GPA. hardly something to celebrate.

 

 

 

Depends where you went to school.  Where I went, a 4/10 could be a passing grade.

[Gothic Flame]

56 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

What freaking school did you go to? a 1.7 GPA is a C-. 70% is a B where I went to school

I'm old school. 70% is at best a D. Anything below is a failure.

[Truthteller]

1 hour ago, Terry05 said:

To each there own. This is really nothing new. I was on Westeros when GoT first came on and it was exactly the same - show haters, show defenders and people in the middle who just enjoyed the show for what it was. The main difference now is the increased use of social media

This kind of hand waving away the criticisms is intellectually dishonest.  The situations are not at all analogous, and certainly cannot be presumed.

 

For my part, I was very excited for GOT TV because I really loved the books, but the e tv show was so good it has completely replaced the books in my imagination.  Every character, with the possible exception of Jon Snow, has become their TV versions.  

 

The difference between the two shows is as big as the universe.  You can’t put them on the same scale.  
 

People who defend the show really don’t understand the criticisms if they think they are the usual people don’t like change.

[Rhavin]

3 hours ago, Terry05 said:

It’s hard for shows that have an established fan base from another medium. Always lots of people who get upset and vote 1.

I voted this a 1-star not because they changed things but because I felt they didnt impove anything with those changes.

[notpropaganda73]

3 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

simple math

10944*9 = 98496

14882*8 = 119056

10154*7 = 71078

5104*6 = 30624

3104*5 = 15520

1891*4 = 7564

1912*3 = 3824

1804*2 = 3608

49795 total voters. 349770 total score.

349770/49795 = an average of 7.02.

that means the average is around 70%, which would be around a C minus in school or a 1.7 GPA. hardly something to celebrate.

 

 

Alternatively, 70% gets you a first class honours degree in the UK ?

 

I think 7/10 is a pretty decent return for a first season tbh. I'd have graded it 6/10 personally, heavily impacted by the last two episodes. 

[fra85uk]

Well 7/10 is more or less the same as Shannara (and we are considering imbd which is an upper limit)

The Witcher has around 8

Arcane around 9

 

 

[Cauthonfan4]

2 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Well 7/10 is more or less the same as Shannara (and we are considering imbd which is an upper limit)

i was trying to forget that show exists as well. such a waste of Manu Bennett 

[notpropaganda73]

7 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Well 7/10 is more or less the same as Shannara (and we are considering imbd which is an upper limit)

The Witcher has around 8

Arcane around 9

 

 

 

I would give it a 10. I can't think of any flaws, it was fantastic. 

 

Witcher S1 a similar level to WoT for me (not yet watched S2). 

[Elder_Haman]

3 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

where did you go to school?

90% and above is an A

80% to 89% is a B

70-79% is a C

60-69% is a D

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_the_United_States

 

But those percentages are tied to mastery of the concepts. The same is not the same for a 1-10 rating system. In such a system 5 is meant to represent the mid point, meaning average. Neither good nor bad. Any score above 5 is therefore 'good' by definition and every score below 5 is 'bad' by definition. The 'goodness' or 'badness' increasing as you approach the limits.

 

A 7.5 on such a system has no relationship to a 'D' grade. Instead, it suggests that the subject of the rating is better than average, but meaningfully less than perfect. Which seems to hit it pretty well on the nose for the series, IMO. 

[Cauthonfan4]

14 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

In such a system 5 is meant to represent the mid point, meaning average. Neither good nor bad. Any score above 5 is therefore 'good' by definition and every score below 5 is 'bad' by definition. The 'goodness' or 'badness' increasing as you approach the limits.

and while in theory i'd like to agree with you, based on what i've seen people rarely if ever give something below a 5. want proof? Go look at the ratings people give for McDonald's. even crappy McDonald's fast food rates around a 3.5 to 4 stars out of 5. even critics rarely score stuff that. food for thought but shannara chronicles and chilling adventures of sabrina were rated by critics right around what WoT was, and neither made it very far. take that for what you will.

 

When even Sanderson makes qualifying statements about his like of the show, and that is able to take criticism, maybe the showrunners shouldn't be so quick to discount what other people are saying.

 

furthermore, sorry, but i'd rather have a 9 REALLY GOOD then a 7 passively good any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Especially when you're talking about a show with a budget the size, backing, and marketing of wheel of time.

the goal, stated by amazon, was for this to be there game of thrones.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/ 9.2, despite the last seasons.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 7.2.

I'd say they missed the mark.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

and while in theory i'd like to agree with you, based on what i've seen people rarely if ever give something below a 5. even critics rarely score stuff that. food for thought but shannara chronicles and chilling adventures of sabrina were rated by critics right around what WoT was, and neither made it very far. take that for what you will.

 

When even Sanderson makes qualifying statements about his like of the show, and that is able to take criticism, maybe the showrunners shouldn't be so quick to discount what other people are saying.

That is obviously and manifestly not true as any journey through Amazon Reviews, Yelp Reviews, Trip Advisor Reviews, or any other thing that uses a scale will demonstrate. People LOVE their 0s and 1s. If anything, people are less likely to give something a 10 than they are a 1.

 

But nevertheless, the point is that as defined by the rating tool a score of 7.5 puts WoT pretty much on the definition line of 'above average'.

 

As for the future of the show, only time will tell. Lots of shows get better in their second season. Many do not. I'm sure that Rafe is aware of some of the broader criticisms: pacing, inconsistent CGI, uneven dialogue. I'd guess there will be efforts made at correction there.

 

In terms of complaints about fidelity to the books or lack thereof, there will probably not be similar efforts because they've already decided upon the story they want to tell and the major changes they intend to make.

[notpropaganda73]

11 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

furthermore, sorry, but i'd rather have a 9 REALLY GOOD then a 7 passively good any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Especially when you're talking about a show with a budget the size, backing, and marketing of wheel of time.

the goal, stated by amazon, was for this to be there game of thrones.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/ 9.2, despite the last seasons.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 7.2.

I'd say they missed the mark.

 

C'mon, nobody is arguing that they'd prefer a 7 to a 9 haha

[Cauthonfan4]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

But nevertheless, the point is that as defined by the rating tool a score of 7.5 puts WoT pretty much on the definition line of 'above average'.

 

except the average isn't a 7.5. even the one that shows WoT in the most positive light only has an 7.2. Rotten Tomatoes has it at 6.5.

 

[Cauthonfan4]

Just now, notpropaganda73 said:

C'mon, nobody is arguing that they'd prefer a 7 to a 9 haha

With the way so many of you show fans are defending the show so hard, You certainly give the impression that a 7 is perfectly acceptable. Sorry not sorry but When i hear "We want this to be our GoT" the standard is a lot higher then that. stop defending shoddy writing and changes.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

except the average isn't a 7.5. even the one that shows WoT in the most positive light only has an 7.2. Rotten Tomatoes has it at 6.5.

 

Okay. But still above average. I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue here. 

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Cauthonfan4 said:

With the way so many of you show fans are defending the show so hard, You certainly give the impression that a 7 is perfectly acceptable. Sorry not sorry but When i hear "We want this to be our GoT" the standard is a lot higher then that. stop defending shoddy writing and changes.

Perfection or nothing!!!

[Cauthonfan4]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Okay. But still above average. I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue here. 

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware a a 6.5 or 7.2 was the standard when you are trying to be GoT.

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

Perfection or nothing!!!

perfection? no.

but when you try to compare it to Game of Thrones you have set a HIGH BAR. and they FAILED utterly.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Cauthonfan4 said:

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware a a 6.5 or 7.2 was the standard when you are trying to be GoT.

perfection? no.

but when you try to compare it to Game of Thrones you have set a HIGH BAR. and they FAILED utterly.

Okay. Will it make you feel better if I say that Game of Thrones S1 was better than WoT S1? Again, I'm not sure what point you are arguing with me. 

[notpropaganda73]

8 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

With the way so many of you show fans are defending the show so hard, You certainly give the impression that a 7 is perfectly acceptable. Sorry not sorry but When i hear "We want this to be our GoT" the standard is a lot higher then that. stop defending shoddy writing and changes.

 

I do think 7 is acceptable for a first season? My favourite show of all time, the US Office, was probably a 4 or 5 in the first season.

 

It's not what I want or hope for the future, or what I wanted at the start (but I've said before on this forum, I actually worried/expected the show to be outright awful on every single level) but as a starting point, yeah I'm ok with it. 

 

I'm not comparing it to GoT (what Amazon say is up to them) and I'll talk about changes from the books and the problems with the show and theorise about ways the show could improve going forward. I don't see why we have to get into this territory every single time of "you defenders say this!" and "you haters say this!" 

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

My favourite show of all time, the US Office, was probably a 4 or 5 in the first season.

Agreed. I was not in love with Last Kingdom after S1 - it was basically just a meh. It's now probably my favorite TV series of all time. Started another rewatch last night.

 

On the other hand, I loved Game of Thrones for 5ish seasons. Watched it faithfully to the end. I'll probably not ever watch it again.

[fra85uk]

GoT has an outstanding watch value and a poor rewatch value, a thing that probably is intrinsic of the way in which the show was structured

 

[Deviations]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Agreed. I was not in love with Last Kingdom after S1 - it was basically just a meh. It's now probably my favorite TV series of all time. Started another rewatch last night.

I love this series.  I haven't had a chance to read the books yet (I'm about halfway through Griff Hosker's myriad of books, some of which cover a similar time period)

[Elder_Haman]

Brace yourself. The books are very different from the show in many respects. But I think you'll find they pair well - like wine with a good meal.