full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, nicki_minajah said:

I'm still holding off judgment

Decent of you. There are ~10000 in a one hour script, while the books encompass > 4 million words, more than the Malazon Book of the Fallen. If specific incidences are SHOWN (as in a visual medium) to replace the motivations described in millions of words, then rather than castigate the creators, I applaud them. Nuance is hard, criticism is easy.

[Agitel]

I wish we did have the opportunity to compare more straight TV takes on Mat and Perrin to what we've seen, and how they poll with audiences, and how it works on television in the same run time. They certainly are striking ways to individuate the boys. Was it necessary?

Edited November 21, 2021 by Agitel

[ManetherenTaveren]

14 minutes ago, nicki_minajah said:

For me, the problem with this decision (to give Mat a tragic backstory) is that it (seemingly) anchors Mat to a very simplistic motivation for his actions: to overcome/move beyond/help his tragic family. Mat is a slow-burn character. His complexity is assumed (at least by me) from Book 1--and that assumption is rewarded as his story unfolds. (If anything anchors Mat's character, it's the Two Rivers stubbornness.)

I'm looking forward to how the ruby dagger's curse affects this revised Mat. Also, given his darker traits, the aelfinn are really gonna have fun with him. ? Let's make a deal!

[MaxZorin]

41 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

I don't remember him starving in the town. Also, don't remember it being a TV series.

Your asserstion that I responded to was "not even a change."

 

I'm glad we agree that it is, in fact, a change.

 

For whatever reason.  For better or worse.

[Blackbyrd]

3 hours ago, flinn said:

Tossing Bran out of the window in ep 1 was a hook. Everyone wanted to see Jaime/Cersei get theirs for it. Then we basically go into travelogue mode and the book (and the show) were kind of boring until Ned gets his head chopped off, then we are back to "I cant wait to see them get theirs" mode. Books 2 and 3 were good, 4 and 5 are average at best.

The reel of losing what many assumed would be a main character did take awhile

 

This is almost certainly my top criticism of the series through three episodes and it is what I feel to be a weakish hook and reel. Book hook was Ishi-Lews with the reel being Moraine raising a wall of flame and rolling Earth to one handedly stop 300+ monsters. The reel being even more clever that Mat shouts the old tongue which calls back the Manetheren story which itself is a sort of secondary hook

 

TV hook is the battle at the Inn and the reel is the somewhat hokey mystery of who is the Dragon Reborn. To me it's very TVish and doesn't really inspire- but I am foremost a book person so TV/movie producers generally have a special place of scorn in my heart ? Now could I imagine a world where there is a two hour premiere that possibily begins with the creation of Dragonmount and ends with everyone fleeing from a great danger into the possibly greater danger of Shadar Logoth? You bet I can imagine it, which makes me sympathetic to book folk who aren't feeling it. I do not really have much sympathy for book folk who harp endlessly on things like: 'Nynaeve snuck up on Lan (did she really though? There is a possiblity Lan simply wasn't afraid) so the show is horrible' 

 

Also my Whitecloak thoughts are that the writers see as I do that properly pulling off Falme is gonna be a huge point for the show and so to have Whitecloaks as full fledged villains will help the viewer get invested in their cataclysmic defeat. I also don't wonder if we'll see forkroot tea being a more well known commodity or perhaps even a Whitecloak trade secret

[flinn]

 I think we will see the making of Dragonmount, but I think it will be one of the first "memories" Rand has of Lews and I also think it will be a dream.

[Joe B]

17 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

IMO The only way to possibly save this is to show that she was a Darkfriend, she tricked him into marrying her under orders, she was trying to kill him, and his Ta'veren status (ie luck) acted to keep his thread from being cut from the Pattern.  And have him believe it.  And be damned if I know how they pull that off.

Or…she was under compulsion??.

[ManetherenTaveren]

17 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

show that she was a Darkfriend, she tricked him into marrying her under orders, she was trying to kill him, and his Ta'veren status (ie luck) acted to keep his thread from being cut from the Pattern. 

 

6 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Or…she was under compulsion??.

I agree that she may have been either a darkfriend or under compulsion. Perrin's "dream" in ep3 seems to suggest that she was evil (assuming the wolf killed and eviscerated her ). That vision seems like something Ishamael/Ba'alzamon (or another Chosen) would concoct to torture him further. 

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

Review: This ‘Wheel of Time’ Goes Nowhere Fast

Amazon’s ambitious fantasy adaptation is bursting with magic and monsters, but it’s no heir to the “Thrones.”

----------New York Times

 

 

Lot of major news outlets are giving it the squint;

----

The Wheel of Time review – Jeff Bezos’s Game of Thrones is destined to be forgotten

-----

Amazon Prime's sprawling new magic and monsters fantasy is an epic misfire

-----

Amazon’s ‘The Wheel of Time’ Review: A Fantasy Epic That’s Just Spinning Its Wheels

[Agitel]

20 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

 

Lot of major news outlets are giving it the squint;

----

The Wheel of Time review – Jeff Bezos’s Game of Thrones is destined to be forgotten

-----

Amazon Prime's sprawling new magic and monsters fantasy is an epic misfire

-----

Amazon’s ‘The Wheel of Time’ Review: A Fantasy Epic That’s Just Spinning Its Wheels

 

I'm still hoping WOT TV will hit its stride, because it definitely has some opportunity areas. GOT S1 didn't receive universal praise either, and publications like the NYT (first one you linked) panned it for its first two or three seasons, giving very negative reviews of it.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Agitel

[Harad the White]

15 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Lot of major news outlets are giving it the squint;

Right, although rotten gives it 68%. I would love to see the first season contemporaneous reviews of GoT to see what the same knee-jerk crowd-following critics had to say. Not to say there aren't excellent critics like the retired Ken Turan of LAT who gave FoTR a rave while most 'squinted."

[AusLeviathan]

I think the most unexpected negative reaction I've seen came from Twitch streamer Sodapoppin because he'd been sponsored to do a watch party with his viewers for the first two episodes to build interest so he had incentive to be nice for future sponsorship opportunities.

 

He finished the second episode and immediately said he had no interest in watching the third episode and then basically told people in a very sarcastic voice they should watch it for themselves.

 

Amazon basically ended up paying for a Twitch streamer and his viewers to make fun of their show.

Edited November 22, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Akragard]

16 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Lot of major news outlets are giving it the squint;

I'm sorry, at this point, do people still take major news outlets seriously, particularly when it comes to pop culture?

 

I've found that a lot of the time they really miss the mark on what the audience will actually like.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Akragard
Quoted the complete wrong post.

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

He finished the second episode and immediately said he had no interest in watching the third episode and then basically told people in a very sarcastic voice they should watch it for themselves

Omg. Professional suicide. He should be a negative poster here.

[Akragard]

16 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

He finished the second episode and immediately said he had no interest in watching the third episode and then basically told people in a very sarcastic voice they should watch it for themselves.

That's unfortunate because the third episode had some really cool points and I thought the timing started to hit it's stride.

 

I really liked the wolves herding Perrin and Egwene to the Tinkers. That was the highlight for me so far.

[Harad the White]

I was addicted from the first episode and binged until it stopped. Just glad they only dropped three.  And if you think I'm an easy sell for any F&SF show, I hated the Soviet version of LoTR.

[Beidomon]

13 hours ago, Rand the Plumber said:

 

The more I think of it, the more I would have preferred to see some subtle shading of the weaves, to indicate which power were being woven.  Red for fire, blue for water, etc.  But I do like the concept.

Yes I’d like to see that, too. I wonder if they’ll even dig that deeply in the show. So far, admittedly through just 3 episodes, they’ve approached everything related to OP and channeling at a very superficial level. 

[Jaysen Gore]

Was going to post this is S1E1, but probably not a good idea. 

 

I'll re-watch when I can, but probably my biggest concern is them having to lop off entire branches of the plot tree - the Horn - gone; dreaming - gone; the Seachan - gone; the Breaking of the Tower - gone; half the Forsaken - gone. Morgase - gone. Entire multi-book plotlines and POV's excised completely.

 

OR...if they don't make some serious, serious cuts, this is going to feel like a mindless sprint through plot high points with minimal character development until we get to the slog, and then their edits to the slog will make it feel like a mind-blowingly good series.

 

I'm not concerned about the TV series' ability to get from Dumai's Wells the end of the series with incredible TV in about 4 seasons. It's the ability to get from the Two Rivers to Dumai's Wells in 4 seasons without losing much of the tapestry of the world and depth of character that makes the Wheel of Time great that makes me nervous.

 

Like LOTR, I'll be here, because we'll never get another, and I get that it will likely never be what we all would have wanted, but I just hope they find some time to let this breathe...

[Jaysen Gore]

4 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Yes I’d like to see that, too. I wonder if they’ll even dig that deeply in the show. So far, admittedly through just 3 episodes, they’ve approached everything related to OP and channeling at a very superficial level. 

My working assumption on this is that once we start getting the Wonder Girls' POV's, it will go from a generic white mist, to more specific, and maybe even colour differentiated weaves. 

[Harad the White]

5 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

lop off entire branches of the plot tree - the Horn - gone; dreaming - gone; the Seachan - gone; the Breaking of the Tower - gone; half the Forsaken - gone. Morgase - gone. Entire multi-book plotlines and POV's

How do you know?

[Windigo]

On 11/20/2021 at 1:00 AM, Harad the White said:

Totally disagree. The episode moved from beginning to end. The multiple points of view worked brilliantly when the 6 split into 2s. As in every movie/book discussion there will always be purists who object to the slightest deviation from the book.

Just one response: Padan Fain started innocuously in the book and built his evil. The dagger is his entree.

Yep, I am not sure why  they gave that away so soon, other than looks like the actor is going to do a great job at being an evil dude. 

[Jaysen Gore]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

How do you know?

It's a concern / fear - not a known thing. But if they don't make cuts, this is going to feel very rushed.

[Beidomon]

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

 

I'm still hoping WOT TV will hit its stride, because it definitely has some opportunity areas. GOT S1 didn't receive universal praise either, and publications like the NYT (first one you linked) panned it for its first two or three seasons, giving very negative reviews of it.

I can’t speak to early GOT reviews, but GOT Season 1 was way better than this. It looks YA/CW, the music is crapty CSI ominous tones, the dialogue is cheesy, and the way they setting out the (modified) lore is awkward at best.

 

Look, it isn’t terrible - the actors are great, and landscapes are sumptuous, the effects are generally good - but it’s just very mediocre so far. It’s really hard to believe this is what 10MM per episode buys. 

[Joe B]

Looking ahead to episode 4, I am trying to figure out what  "An incredible new power is unleashed on the world" means. I can't think of anything this early in the story that lines up with that description. It seams early, but do you think they will show

Spoiler

the Seanchan taking Falme?

Please tell me I'm missing something obvious.

[Jaysen Gore]

5 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Looking ahead to episode 4, I am trying to figure out what  "An incredible new power is unleashed on the world" means. I can't think of anything this early in the story that lines up with that description. It seams early, but do you think they will show

  Reveal hidden contents

the Seanchan taking Falme?

Please tell me I'm missing something obvious.

The incredible new power is :

Spoiler

a man who actually knows how to channel, and what he wants to do with it.