tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[Wassup]

1 hour ago, ArrylT said:

I am going to have to triple check - but it has been mentioned in a few YT channels - and it seemd that way from what I saw - and once again shows how faithfully the show is trying to adapt the books - but 

 

(a) no one was hooded within Fal Dara 

 

(b) everyone in Fal Dara had a weapon close at hand

I have only watched Ep7 once, but it looked to me like they had torches and fires everywhere at night while N was following Lan.  This would eliminate any dark or shadowed areas a fade could use.

[dorotea]

On 12/17/2021 at 9:14 AM, Mnemosyne said:

 

This is only true if you believe that sex "cheapens" relationships.

Quick and meaningless sex cheapens the relationship, yes. These two have not had much meaningful conversations yet, so Nyn's decision was presented as an impulsive, opportunistic move , clearly designed to angry Moraine on the eve of portentous events.

[dorotea]

3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Good.

 

Because the show's versions of these two characters aren't the same as their book counterparts, nor should they be.

It is only good if you really disliked these two characters in the books and think that the shows version if fantastic. I happen to think the opposite. So not good. Frankly, I do not understand why do they even re-use characters names. They put in 'Dana' and 'Ivhon' and 'Maxim'. Should have just wrote a different story with different characters.

 

I just happened to binge watch the Witchers season two, and am planning to rewatch  ASAP. Fantastic season. All the characters storylines subtly changed from the books, yet the core remains. You cannot mistake Cirilla, Yen or Geralt for any generic fantasy character. With WoT you easily can loose track of who is supposed to be who, it is really bizarre.

[Sabio]

26 minutes ago, dorotea said:

Quick and meaningless sex cheapens the relationship, yes. These two have not had much meaningful conversations yet, so Nyn's decision was presented as an impulsive, opportunistic move , clearly designed to angry Moraine on the eve of portentous events.

People also forget these are people who think that in the morning they might be off to their deaths.  So be impulsive because in a day she might be dead.

[VooDooNut]

50 minutes ago, Sabio said:

People also forget these are people who think that in the morning they might be off to their deaths.  So be impulsive because in a day she might be dead.

This. And, did the off-screen sex really feel meaningless? They are in love!! It's fast, just like in TEOTW novel (blink and you'll miss it), but it definitely feels genuine. I loved the dinner scene and I love the layers of this Lan (and Nynaeve of course).

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

Just in case anyone was wondering if it was originally planned for Mat to enter the Ways and join the rest of the group, the concept art in the x-ray section for the episode shows Mat in the Ways with them and in the bar afterwards.  

[DaddyFinn]

2 hours ago, dorotea said:

 Nyn's decision was presented as an impulsive, opportunistic move , clearly designed to angry Moraine on the eve of portentous events.

That seems far fetched

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

6 hours ago, ArrylT said:

(a) no one was hooded within Fal Dara 

For me that was the most un-Lan part of E1 when he enters the inn hooded - this would have been very unlikely for any borderlander to do.

[CaddySedai]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

That seems far fetched

 

Especially since our favorite Blue specifically told Lan she liked Nyn. 

 

I almost guarantee without that opening he would not have allowed that coupling to happen. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by CaddySedai

[EmreY]

4 hours ago, dorotea said:

Quick and meaningless sex cheapens the relationship, yes. These two have not had much meaningful conversations yet, so Nyn's decision was presented as an impulsive, opportunistic move , clearly designed to angry Moraine on the eve of portentous events.

 

She Met The Parents (sort of).  Unless you're 15, that usually means the sex bit is over and done with long ago.  ?

[ForsakenPotato]

To be fair we don't even know what they did. She stayed the night and I'm sure in true Nyneave fashion did only whatever she felt comfortable with. Based on the clips we saw, Lan got totally naked and Nyneave kept all her clothes on.

 

I'm only mostly kidding.

[EmreY]

1 hour ago, ForsakenPotato said:

To be fair we don't even know what they did. She stayed the night and I'm sure in true Nyneave fashion did only whatever she felt comfortable with. Based on the clips we saw, Lan got totally naked and Nyneave kept all her clothes on.

 

I'm only mostly kidding.

 

They might have braided each other's hair...

[Ralph]

3 hours ago, sw0mp_d0nk3y said:

Just in case anyone was wondering if it was originally planned for Mat to enter the Ways and join the rest of the group, the concept art in the x-ray section for the episode shows Mat in the Ways with them and in the bar afterwards.  

 

Good catch

 

What is this picture showing? 

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, Ralph said:

 

Good catch

 

What is this picture showing? 

Loial reading a guidestone and the rest looking at dead something(trolloc?) on the ground

[NetNightmare]

12 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

In the books Rand didn't see any weaves when he healed Bela and called the lightning because he was unaware he was channeling. The show seems to do the same with the door. I'm not sure if he already knew when he was in the Ways and we just saw it from Egwene's POV so we only saw saidar and didn't see saidin and the Corruption.

this true, although there is a difference, in the book at this time we do not have either an explanation about who can see the weaving, BUT  and here it is the big difference, we neither "see" the weaves at this point in the book  .. so the explanation was not needed ...

 

Later in the book when this become relevant it get explained... the show decided to show the weaving from EP1 (not arguing if it is wrong or right being it another medium we could discuss it) so I guess that an explanation was due ... the end result is confusion\cheating

[NetNightmare]

13 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

It's not in-show information that people within the world can't see Channelers' Weaves, but information conveyed by the show's book consultant, Sarah Nakamura, about the world as the show is depicting it.

The post-explanation \ book knowledge \ X-Ray content is good for discussion but imho is irrelevant for the show since the majority of the audience wont use it ..

[Bruan]

3 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

She Met The Parents (sort of).  Unless you're 15, that usually means the sex bit is over and done with long ago.  ?

Sure. To our modern, post sexual revolution dating sensibilities. Keep in mind in the Two Rivers during the Third Age, you get caught kissing your best gal in the hayloft and Nyneave would take her stick and thump your skull all the way to the woman’s circle and have you married before the lumps had time set in...

[RhienneAgain]

53 minutes ago, Bruan said:

Sure. To our modern, post sexual revolution dating sensibilities. Keep in mind in the Two Rivers during the Third Age, you get caught kissing your best gal in the hayloft and Nyneave would take her stick and thump your skull all the way to the woman’s circle and have you married before the lumps had time set in...

I agree. Its just one of many interactions between Lan and Nynaeve that makes me feel like I'm watching a totally different character who had borrowed Nynaeve's braid and name. There is no way book Nynaeve would have got into bed with anyone before marriage 

 

I'm really struggling to understand why the showrunners decided to go for implied sex when Nynaeve entered Lan's room instead of some version of the conversation Lan and Nynaeve have where Nynaeve essentially proposes to Lan at the end of tEotW. That would have demonstrated to audiences the level of commitment the two characters felt to each other, and highlighted the challenges facing them. 

 

It seems that they could have got the same outcome either way. I'm struggling to find any motivation for the change beyond 'sex sells' which saddens me a little.

[DaddyFinn]

Can the "sex sells" argument be made regarding WoT when we don't see any actual sex scenes?

[RhienneAgain]

Just now, DaddyFinn said:

Can the "sex sells" argument be made regarding WoT when we don't see any actual sex scenes?

Well, ok the 'implication of sex sells' argument, then.

[EmreY]

59 minutes ago, Bruan said:

Sure. To our modern, post sexual revolution dating sensibilities. Keep in mind in the Two Rivers during the Third Age, you get caught kissing your best gal in the hayloft and Nyneave would take her stick and thump your skull all the way to the woman’s circle and have you married before the lumps had time set in...

 

I disagree, in degree.  Much of the stigma surrounding sex derives from cultural or religious norms.  We can set the religious ones aside, what we understand of them does not apply here.

 

Which brings us back to the cultural norms.  I suspect Nynaeve wouldn't deviate too far from what was acceptable.

[Mailman]

22 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

 

References yes but compare that to the village council which is directly shown leading, making decisions, wielding power.

 

 

 

The Sea Folk would have something to say about that but regardless that's not the point, the point is that is what the 1st book shows, a man in a position of power. 

 

 

 

I don't disagree but the same could be said in the show. Regardless Raen is still clearly making decision for them, holding power.

 

 

 

Yes absolutely, but that is nonetheless the exemple of power the book chooses to show. I am not expecting a female leader in this situation, I am sayint that the situation the book chooses to present is one with a man wielding power.

 

 

 

I agree Morgase holds more power than all those others put together. However that's still just 1 person, and she's only shown for half a chapter. And she's not present in the show.

 

Personally I see Moiraine more as a guide for the main party than a person holding power. I'd compare her more to Elyas or even Thom. She leads to party yes but she doesn't hold a position of structural power like a Queen, General, Mayor, Lord, etc. But sure you could include although in that case I would argue Elyas and even Lan command at times.

 

This isn't criticism of the book to be clear. One could argue the plot lends itself to showing more men than women in the first book. But nonetheless in terms of quantity the book presents far more exemples of men holding power than women, and for a TV show which is quite intentionally meant to shift things to a more female centric setting (at least in some aspects), it would have come across as rather contradictory. Even though yes it would certainly be adjusted in the following seasons.

Its more than just that with the wisdom and village council she directly insults and derides the council, she takes direct action over the council in going after the group as well as the comments in regards to the womans circle really being in control. Those scenes to me more come down that the womans circle is the real power in the village.

 

The sea folk are a anomaly as they are basically an entire society living on the water and you also have the fact that they have channelers in important positions and these are all female.

 

You have to factor in that this is a feudal society in most respects. Some roles women simply did not fill in 99.99% of cases at this level of technological advancement. Women where not soldiers, sailors or blacksmiths.

 

In relation to Moiraine I am more saying she is the driving force of the first book. Everything that happens in the entire book is brought about because of her drive her force to get the group to each place. It is Moiraines most important part of the entire series. It is one of the most disappointing parts of the TV show how much of a pale imitation she is.

[Bruan]

52 minutes ago, EmreY said:

 

I disagree, in degree.  Much of the stigma surrounding sex derives from cultural or religious norms.  We can set the religious ones aside, what we understand of them does not apply here.

 

Which brings us back to the cultural norms.  I suspect Nynaeve wouldn't deviate too far from what was acceptable.

and it wasn’t acceptable in the two rivers (at least in the books) to be canoodling without being married... it’s the reason we have 20 year old virgins running out into the world being shocked about how people in different cultures are behaving.

[Lethira the second]

5 hours ago, Dead Warder said:

They played several games of dice, Scrabble and part way through Monopoly: Blight Edition before the sun rose.

 

It's a shame they lost the opportunity for a game tie in.  They could have introduced everyones favourite card game "Uno". 

 

-I'll see myself out!

[Starganderfish]

Still pretty unimpressed with the show.

Loved the blood snow, hated a whole lot of the rest of it.

I wrote a massive dump of my feelings but then realised no-one here would really care so just deleted it. in summary... its just a lot of meh.

 

On the whole, the shows just un-inspiring. It's three or four days sine the episode dropped and I honestly couldn't be bothered watching it till now. Same happened with the previous episode. I just don't feel the draw of it.

In contrast I only just realised that Season 2 of Witcher dropped on Netflix and I'm settling in to binge multiple episodes and work tomorrow be damned. For me thats the easiest criteria to judge a show on.

Whether I'm excited to watch it and can't wait for the next episode or not.
WOT? Just not excited.

I think the season finale will make or break it for me. If they can't wow me, and they continue to ignore so much of the core story for more of the made-up "noodles with my step-family" crap... I think I'll probably stop watching. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Starganderfish