tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[Rand the Plumber]

8 minutes ago, flinn said:

 I thought the shadow figures were just the taint. It appears that hearing voices is going to be the universal madness in the show, instead of each person having their own unique madness trait.

 

Yes, could be that.  The reason I thought "Aha!  Forsaken!" is that just before they appeared, it seemed as if the channeling was snaking around Logain from off-screen.

[JenniferL]

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

 

 

As for the the whole shielding part I'm not really bothered. Logain clearly wasn't shielded yet when Steping tried to attack him, so Logain was able to defend himself. Only thing that was weird them saying its easier to break out than hold a shield, but you could argue that they were saying constantly channelling is exhausting while doing nothing isn't. 

 

This is consistent with the books. A shield being actively maintained is harder for a man to break free of than one that’s been tied off. Go read the bit where Rand breaks free of the box. He’s only able to break the shield because some of the sisters get distracted by the battle of tie their weaves to go investigate. 

[Rand the Plumber]

2 minutes ago, ManetherenTaveren said:

LOL. I suppose it's easy to confuse players on the Man United roster with a bunch of Tinkers! ? The way of the leaf indeed! 

 

Argh.  I meant Marcus Rutherford.

 

Marcus Rashford is hot, too, but that's a discussion for another forum. ?

[MasterAblar]

Right but it didn’t seem like they mentioned tying off the shields, just that breaking through is easier than holding it. I don’t maybe they just meant that they were expending more energy than he is, which is true. Just awkward wording perhaps.

Now setting a shield on someone is definitely harder than maintaining one on someone who’s already held but I don’t think they were referencing that.

[Harad the White]

https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-backlash-controversy-books-seasons-risk

 

which suggests, Walt Kelley's Pogo,

 

[JenniferL]

9 minutes ago, flinn said:

 I thought the shadow figures were just the taint. It appears that hearing voices is going to be the universal madness in the show, instead of each person having their own unique madness trait.

This is consistent with the books. Cadsuane and Semirhage both comment that men who can channel eventually start hearing voices. It is unknown whether or not these voices are past lives, like Rand and Lews Therin, but it’s not unreasonable that the show might decide that it is and that Logain is hearing whatever his past lives are. 

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

but it’s not unreasonable that the show might decide that it is and that Logain is hearing whatever his past lives are

X-ray shows the  "past female voice" has a name: Elusha Salid.

[Rand the Plumber]

2 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-backlash-controversy-books-seasons-risk

 

This isn't true of the people I've spoken to about it, both a colleague who is a book fan, and a couple of other colleagues and my partner, none of whom have ever read the books.  All of them have had positive things to say about the story so far (I'll have to wait until next week to hear my colleagues' opinion on Ep.4.

 

I think it's too early for the postmortem as yet.  The Doomsayers may be right, but we'll see.

[AusLeviathan]

11 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

This is consistent with the books. Cadsuane and Semirhage both comment that men who can channel eventually start hearing voices. It is unknown whether or not these voices are past lives, like Rand and Lews Therin, but it’s not unreasonable that the show might decide that it is and that Logain is hearing whatever his past lives are. 

They're definitely meant to be real voices in the show at least because they've taught Logain how to channel and his relative lack of movement whilst channeling compared to the Aes Sedai seems to suggest he was taught differently from how the Aes Sedai are in the present.

 

The presentation though is so contrasted to what we saw with the man running from the Red Ajah in the first episode that it feels like it's the shadow attempting to convince someone they know isn't the Dragon to proclaim himself the Dragon just to cause more issues for the world.

 

Also Moiraine seems to only become convinced that Logain isn't the DR after he mentions the voices, so it seems like this is a recognizable symptom of madness to the Aes Sedai in the show.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[JenniferL]

Screenrant is not a reliable source. According to Amazons official statements the show is doing very well and the second season is already in production. There’s some very vocal naysayers, but most people are pretty happy with it. 

[Harad the White]

7 hours ago, RhienneAgain said:

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post.  I didn't feel the Gyptians were derivative of the Tinkers when reading the books; I felt the portrayal of the Tinkers on the TV show felt derivative of the Gyptians portrayal on the Dark Materials TV show

You were clear. As caddysedai also noted, there is a slight possibility that the Gyptians in HDM, written 11 years after WoT, were a "homage" to the Tinkers in WoT. Why should WoT feel constrained to portray it's characters because of that?

[TheDreadReader]

1 minute ago, Rand the Plumber said:

 

This isn't true of the people I've spoken to about it, both a colleague who is a book fan, and a couple of other colleagues and my partner, none of whom have ever read the books.  All of them have had positive things to say about the story so far (I'll have to wait until next week to hear my colleagues' opinion on Ep.4.

 

I think it's too early for the postmortem as yet.  The Doomsayers may be right, but we'll see.

 

Given the economics of things, the perception of a fan backlash, may ultimately work against fans wanting beat for beat adaptations in the future.   If the show meets or exceeds Amazon's projections then it would be reasonable for them to feel like they can safely ignore them.

 

Most of the non-book fan reactions that I've seen have trended towards the positive.   About the only negative non-fan reaction in my social circle that I've received is that it wasn't GoTy enough.  But, that seems like a real outlier.

 

 

 

[Agitel]

I get screenrant in my phone's browser feed and they're all clickbait tabloid articles. While I'm not saying the criticism can't be valid, screenrant is just not a food source. 

 

Edit: In addition to not being a food source, screenrant is also not a GOOD source.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Agitel

[Hudson]

11 hours ago, Mailman said:

I thought it was fairly obvious

The green and her 2 warders chose to turn in early and the it seemed fairly obvious that they where going to do more than sleep and then Lan parrots the exact same sentences they used and went to Moiraine and they where then seen sitting close together.

 

Not suggesting they where or are going to sleep together but i think its obvious they are playing up a sexual chemistry between the 2.

Re-listening to New Spring right now.  Moraine is always playing Daes Dae'mar.  Always trying to manipulate situations and what people think of her and what she is doing.  I didn't pick up on this during the episode but I think you're right.  Any way she can keep others guessing about her...she will.  Nice little nugget if that is what was intended by the show.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Hudson
Spelling correction.

[Rand the Plumber]

A plausible argument.  Let's see what they do with LotR.

 

"It's a good story, but we need to do away with this concept of malevolent jewellery.  And instead of Hobbits, our test audiences show that sentient vegetables will be much better received by those unfamiliar with the source material."

[MasterAblar]

9 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

They're definitely meant to be real voices in the show at least because they've taught Logain how to channel and his relative lack of movement whilst channeling compared to the Aes Sedai seems to suggest he was taught differently from how the Aes Sedai are in the present.

 

The presentation though is so contrasted to what we saw with the man running from the Red Ajah in the first episode that it feels like it's the shadow attempting to convince someone they know isn't the Dragon to proclaim himself the Dragon just to cause more issues for the world.

 

Also Moiraine seems to only become convinced that Logain isn't the DR after he mentions the voices, so it seems like this is a recognizable symptom of madness to the Aes Sedai in the show.

When is it mentioned the voices taught Logain how to channel? I figured that his lack of movement is just because that’s how he taught himself.

 

The voices could be former lives, but they could just as easily be voice he’s hallucinating. No way to really know.

[Harad the White]

Just now, Agitel said:

I get screenrant in my phone's browser feed and they're all clickbait tabloid articles. While I'm not saying the criticism can't be valid, screenrant is just not a food source

Don't shoot the messenger. Just read the posts herein. The negative waves come and go. And come. Maybe there is less than 50%. Maybe. But they are loud.

[AusLeviathan]

39 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

When is it mentioned the voices taught Logain how to channel? I figured that his lack of movement is just because that’s how he taught himself.

 

The voices could be former lives, but they could just as easily be voice he’s hallucinating. No way to really know.

He says they're "teaching him how to do better this time". I suppose you could interpret that other ways but I'm not really sure what else the voices would be teaching him at this point?

 

He certainly isn't listening to their advice to kill people and yet he's also completely certain they're helping him, teaching him to channel is the only explanation that makes sense to me in that situation.

 

Plus the voices are taking the appearance of tainted Saidin and they make it clear he's hearing voices of men and women. It just feels to me like it hints towards this being the Forsaken.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Rand the Plumber]

12 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

The voices could be former lives, but they could just as easily be voice he’s hallucinating. No way to really know.

An observation made by someone in one of the later books, someone who once had the reputation of being one of the greatest healers of mental illnesses the world has ever known, is particularly apposite to that statement.

 

(Not sure if I could be more oblique if I tried!)

[JenniferL]

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

He says they're "teaching him how to do better this time". I suppose you could interpret that other ways but I'm not really sure what else the voices would be teaching him at this point?

 

He certainly isn't listening to their advice to kill people and yet he's also completely certain they're helping him, teaching him to channel is the only explanation that makes sense to me in that situation.

 

Plus the voices are taking the appearance of tainted Saidin and they make it clear he's hearing voices of men and women. It just feels like it towards this being the Forsaken to me.

Rand picked up more than a few channeling tricks from Lews Therin, so it’s not unreasonable that Logain’s voices are doing the same. 

[AusLeviathan]

Watching the scene again, Moiraine smirks when Logain speaks the same words as Rand's epiphany on Dragonmount.

 

So she's heard that line before? It's presumably the same line many men have said before?

 

That pushes me more to believing that it's meant to be real people working for the shadow acting as the voices in Logain's head (presumably the Forsaken or something).

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

That pushes me more to believing that it's meant to be real people working for the shadow acting as the voices in Logain's head (presumably the Forsaken or something).

Come over to the dark side. Elusha Salid = Lanfear.

[AusLeviathan]

11 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Come over to the dark side. Elusha Salid = Lanfear.

I am really intrigued that they gave a voice with one or two lines a name in the credits.

 

They could've just called the character shadowy voice number 1 or something (even if it was meant to be Lanfear they wouldn't use that name in the credits for spoiler reasons), so there was definitely more to the character than what we were shown.

 

My guess is that the voice was originally meant to have a greater role in the show and they cut most of her scenes after signing the contract with the actress.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

My guess is that the voice was originally meant to have a greater role in the show and they cut most of her scenes after signing the contract with the actress.

Wow. She must've had a bad hair day. Another clue is that she was working with a male shadowy figure. What Forsaken duo could it have been?

[MasterAblar]

I’m open to the possibility, but not sure why Lanfear would give a damn about Logain. And she should still be locked up damnit! 

Edited November 27, 2021 by MasterAblar