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The Aelfinn, the Eelfinn and the Foxhead Medallion


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Okay, so we know that the Eelfinn can grant wishes and that the Aelfinn answer questions. But I think that this power was seriously underused in the books. For example, why can't the Eelfinn create a permanent seal on the Dark One's prison? Things concerning the Shadow in the realm of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn are dangerous, yes, but it seems like the Eelfinn have the ability to do pretty much anything, and someone would have taken that risk and stopped the Breaking.  

 

I'm going to move over to the fox head medallion, to try and explain why there was only one, and possibly when the Bargain with the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn was made. While it is possible that someone in the AoL made the foxed medallion, why weren't there more? It would make an excellent defense against channelers during the War of Power. And even if the others were lost, or just never made, it seems unlikely someone would give it up, even as part of the bargain. The reason I say this is because if the bargain with the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn was made during the AoL, someone would have gone in and stopped the War of Power, possibly trading the foxhead medallion. But we know the War of Power still happened. If the bargain was made during the Breaking, then someone would have found a way to stop the Breaking, or reverse the War of Power. They might have traded the foxhead medallion then, but the Breaking still happened, so same problem. So this brings us back to the question of why no one properly used the Eelfinn, and why they have the foxhead medallion. Someone after the Breaking could have easily traded the medallion, perhaps not knowing what it was, in exchange for three wishes. So that solves the problem of how the Eelfinn got the foxhead medallion.

 

But now comes the problem of no one in the Third Age wishing for the Dark One to be sealed away. Mat can be excused, as he was ignorant of a good many things concerning Tarmon Gai'don and the Seal. Moiraine is a different story. She likely knew what the redstone doorway contained, and could have entered and wished for a permanent seal on the Dark One's prison. She could have given them any number of things, and even if it were her life, I believe that is a sacrifice she would be willing to make. Rand could have entered at any time, and wished to not be the Dragon Reborn, to have the Dark One sealed away permanently, or any number of things concerning the Dark One. It is likely that no Aiel entered the redstone doorway, and even if they did, they would be unlikely to wish for the sealing of Sightblinder, as they all believed him safely sealed away.

 

Now what if the Pattern won't allow this to happen? What if only Mat was allowed to enter, because he wouldn't wish for anything concerning the Dark One? This is absolutely possible, but it seems odd that the Pattern wouldn't let the Dragon Reborn do as he pleased, so long as he fulfilled his duty. Perhaps the Prophecies of the Dragon prohibited Rand from entering and sealing the Dark One. But the prophecies are just that, prophecies. They foretell what Rand must do, and therefore in a way, only detail what Rand will do.  So the Prophecies can't be stopping Rand or Moiraine. So that leaves either stupidity on the side of the characters, Robert Jordan didn't think of that, or decided not to do it and never explained why it's not possible or why people didn't, or the Pattern is restricting the easy way out for some reason. What do you think? 

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There are a limit to what kind of wishes or FOIA requests are allowed.

nothing can touch the shadow, probably because things too close to the shadow might cause the elves to unravel.

also the only person who might be allowed to ask for a seal to DO’s prison would be Rand but only if it didn’t touch the DO and it was an object that can be carried thru the doorway. DO’s prison is a weave that covered the whole of the reality of the world.

As to how wishes can be fulfilled, Mat already gave us the solution. The memories Mat got came from hundreds if not thousands of soldiers. The Elves had a method of capturing the future memories of petitioners. It would be easy if time consuming to find any object that existed with the memory of ten thousand people.

Number of Foxheads? Who knows, but Nynaeve and Cadsuane had protective terangreal which can undo a Net... wasn’t it Lanfear who said that was impossible? And those were cheap terangreal that were made during the breaking. 

Edited by Jsbrads2
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2 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

There are a limit to what kind of wishes or FOIA requests are allowed.

nothing can touch the shadow, probably because things too close to the shadow might cause the elves to unravel.

also the only person who might be allowed to ask for a seal to DO’s prison would be Rand but only if it didn’t touch the DO and it was an object that can be carried thru the doorway. DO’s prison is a weave that covered the whole of the reality of the world.

As to how wishes can be fulfilled, Mat already gave us the solution. The memories Mat got came from hundreds if not thousands of soldiers. The Elves had a method of capturing the future memories of petitioners. It would be easy if time consuming to find any object that existed with the memory of ten thousand people.

Number of Foxheads? Who knows, but Nynaeve and Cadsuane had protective terangreal which can undo a Net... wasn’t it Lanfear who said that was impossible? And those were cheap terangreal that were made during the breaking. 

But aren’t the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn in a different world, and therefore free of the Pattern? 
 

If the AoL Aes Sedai could drill beyond the Pattern to create the Bore, doesn’t it stand to reason the Eelfinn could properly patch it? 
 

I don’t remember the Net ter’angreal, or Lanfear talking about it. 
 

But Mat asked for something to protect him from Aes Sedai, and the Eelfinn just had it. Are you saying that every item someone asks for they already have?

 

Okay. I know I seem to be rejecting anything against my theory, so I’m sorry for that. I am totally okay with being wrong, there were just a couple things you said that didn’t make a lot of sense to me. Thanks for responding and debating this with me!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Time flows differently, so when someone asks for something, they start looking for it and when they find it, they give it to the person. When time flows differently, they don’t have the same constraints.

they are part of the same universe/continuum, so the bore in the pattern is actually thruout all of time and space. So long as they stay away from the Bore in all worlds/times they can stay relatively safe so long as the Dark One doesn’t break out completely. 
the terangreal I was talking about was Cadsuane’s and that Seachan woman wore it during the big fight outside Shadar Logoth. 

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I think based on your OP power and ta'evern significance, you can make certain wishes. Wishes be in accordance with the significance of what you can offer (one life may be of more value than another life). Nothing can touch the DO and while the eelfin/aelfin are strong, I doubt they could give you another of the CK, unless you were the DR himself. I also think that they are a form of pattern benders, because they got more joy from mat's eye since he was ta'evern. Maybe the pattern only lets you make some wishes as well?

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I don't see them as "wishes" per se. The finn are tricksy and sly. They grant "boons", not wishes, and they do it in the way that is the most beneficial to them, not the asker. Perhaps some of their power comes directly from the DO's influence. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

She doesn't say the wish/boon will unravel, merely that there would be some unpleasant consequences, including not coming back.

 

Verin describes the relationship of the realm of the 'Finns to Egwene, in discussing Tel'aran'Rhiod and the mirror worlds.  Parallel to Randland's reality are the mirror worlds; places where different choices had been made, or difference chances realized.  The portal world visited by Rand in The Great Hunt, and the parallel experiences had by everybody in their portal-stond trip to Falme, were mirror worlds.  But where those worlds can be conceived of as parallel to the "main" one, there are also other worlds that are not "what-ifs" of the main one, but entirely different, populated by different beings and ruled by different laws of physics and magic.  Presumably, the Ogier come from one such world.  Tel'aran'Rhiod permeates and surrounds them all.

 

However, all the worlds, parallel and perpendicular, bear the same fundamental relationship to the Creator and the Dark One.  All realities fall should the Dark One win.  We see the snakes and foxes in armor fighting Shadowspawn in MoL, when Perrin and Slayer are fighting near the Bore at the end.  The Finns are not creatures of the Shadow, merely so different that they seem bizarre, even evil, to us.  I would not even put it outside the bounds of plausibility that there are humans native to the realm of the Finns, which they keep as livestock, to feed on their emotions and make into leather.

 

What does seem clear is that there is a binding treaty between their world, and ours that governs trade and interactions between our respective realms.  Any good treaty is not one-sided.  The Finns don't grant wishes, they make trades.  You have to specify what you'll pay for the things you want, and if you don't, they'll specify the price.  For the Finns who answer questions, their part of that bargain is likely that they get to savor the emotional response, in return for answering truthfully.

 

It seems that where things get dicey is when someone asks for something the Finns can't deliver.  Questions touching on the Dark One are likely to be unanswerable by the Finns, because of the way the Dark One stands outside the Pattern, not just Randland's Pattern, but the Pattern of all worlds both parallel and perpendicular.  Boons or favors asked to deal with the Dark One are likely to be similar.  You can't ask for something to kill the Dark One, or be free of his influence, or safe from his forces, because they don't have that power any more than any other realm would.  But once you've asked for something they can't deliver, you've stepped outside the bounds of the Treaty, and they can deal with you as they wish.  It's worth noting that visiting the Finns to ask questions or request boons is considered dangerous, even without asking for things touching on the Dark One.  It's entirely possible that if you go to them and ask them for a Chodean Kal access key and they don't have one and can't make one, you'd end up disappeared just like if you'd asked for a dagger that could kill Shai'tan.

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