Semirhage- spoiler

[DojoToad]

When Semirhage was captured and Rand lost his hand, why wasn’t balefire considered to restore Rand?

 

I understand ruling it out - after all having a captive Forsaken could be quite valuable. But it never was discussed in either KoD or tGS. 

 

Anyone else find it odd?  Just never came up...

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

When Semirhage was captured and Rand lost his hand, why wasn’t balefire considered to restore Rand?

 

I understand ruling it out - after all having a captive Forsaken could be quite valuable. But it never was discussed in either KoD or tGS. 

 

Anyone else find it odd?  Just never came up...

Information Semirhage might have had > A Hand, from a guy who has dealt with an unhealing wound in his side.

[Thrasymachus]

It's also likely that Rand himself was the only one powerful enough to balefire her powerfully enough to restore his hand, and he would likely have had to use an angreal to do it, as he did in the fight with Rhavin.  And he was in no condition to do so.  Even a few minutes worth of erasure require a decently powerful amount of balefire.  Nynaeve might have been able to do it.  But every second dithering over it would have reduced the likelihood of success.  Plus, Rand was deep in his "don't hurt women" phase, he would likely not have countenanced it.  He went so far as to forbid "enhanced interrogation" on Semirhage, after all.  Even Cadsuane spanking her probably pushed the limit.

[DojoToad]

It doesn’t bother me that they didn’t do it, just that it was never brought up

[Sammuel]

Leads to the heartbreaking line "He's already moved passed it." In his mind, hand's gone, move on.

 

Honestly, they should have balefire'd her in anyways. Or stilled her on the spot, so they could keep her alive and mostly harmless. Heroes in the series tend to do a lot of leaving the villains alive and hoping that other villains kill or enslave them for failing. 

[Jsbrads2]

More Spoilers, Rand was right later when he was like we have to balefire them all. 
I very dislike “the good guys” letting very destructive people escape rather than killing them.

Also stilling isn’t that big a deal anymore because healing it is known. 

[Sammuel]

35 minutes ago, Jsbrads2 said:

More Spoilers, Rand was right later when he was like we have to balefire them all. 
I very dislike “the good guys” letting very destructive people escape rather than killing them.

Also stilling isn’t that big a deal anymore because healing it is known. 

Agreed, though there's no evidence that any of the good guys have tried learning it, and is one of the forsaken likely to want to rescue Semirhage and heal her?

 

And agree on good guys. It's excusable that Nyneave let's Moghedien escape the first time, but Elayne knocks out the black sister who was tormenting Amethera and then just leaving her was stupid. Does it sound disturbing that I wish she would have taken her belt knife to stab the woman?

[Jsbrads2]

Many lives would be saved if good people would just stab black ajah in the back. 

[Voidhawk2]

 I think that had the "good characters" been a bit more ruthless, a lot of trouble would have been avoided later on. (e.g as Sammuel says, stabbing the Black Sister tormenting Amathera would have helped quite a bit, later on in the books anyway) (Btw, what was that sisters name? Was it Marillin Gemalphin?) However, coldbloodedly murdering, even a Black Sister, would kind of destroy the point of them being good people. Like from a moral point of view, what's the difference between a Darkfriend who murders someone who is in their way and an Asha'man/Aes Sedai who murders someone because they could cause trouble later on?

Edited August 19, 2020 by Voidhawk2

[Jsbrads2]

I definitely have problem with the murders that happens in the white tower.

But even tho murder is one of the worst crimes, there is still a difference between murder and a Dark Friend.

A regular murderer may not be 1st degree, premeditated, etc. And regular murderers may never be in the situation again. Dark Friends need to murder to hide who they are, they need to murder to serve their master, they have no qualms with cold premeditated murder.

[Sabio]

So as long as you can justify a murder it's ok?  At what point do all the good people simply become like the whitecloaks?  Going about torturing, killing, intimidating anyone they don't feel is good enough?  But justifying it as ok because they claim to walk in the light?  Do the good characters act stupid sometimes, yes.  But WT law states they must go to the WT for a trial, and not simply executed on the spot.  Look at the male chanelling program where Aes Sedai were just gentling and often times killing men on the spot, against tower law.  Many times the man was killed for trying to "escape".  Yes it was started by the BA but even after the BA were told to stop many  non BA Aes Sedai continued it, even killing a Amrylin when she was about to stop it.  How many innocent men were killed by supposedly good Aes Sedai?  When the good people use the tactics of their enemies how can you condem your enemy?

Edited August 22, 2020 by Sabio

[Voidhawk2]

Exactly

[DojoToad]

20 hours ago, Sabio said:

So as long as you can justify a murder it's ok?  At what point do all the good people simply become like the whitecloaks?  Going about torturing, killing, intimidating anyone they don't feel is good enough?  But justifying it as ok because the claim to walk in the light?  Do the good characters act stupid sometimes, yes.  But WT law states they must go to the WT for a trial, and not simply executed on the spot.  Look at the male chanelling program where Aes Sedai were just gentling and often times killing men on the spot, against tower law.  Many times the man was killed for trying to "escape".  Yes it was started by the BA but even after the BA were told to stop many  non BA Aes Sedai continued it, even killing a Amrylin when she was about to stop it.  How many innocent men were killed by supposedly good Aes Sedai?  When the good people use the tactics of their enemies how can you condem your enemy?

 

Again, my issue wasn't that they didn't balefire her - but that they didn't even consider it.  The 'good' characters did consider doing other bad things but then chose not to, or were overruled.  Using balefire on Semirhage not only would have restored Rand's hand, but who knows how other many 'evil' actions/plans it would have undone - she is a Forsaken after all.  But my arguement isn't for or against actual use in this instance - but that an obvious choice was overlooked.

[Sabio]

Only Rand with the sword could of balefired Semirhage for any useful amount of time and he never would of done it.  You saw Rand at full power in Fires of Heaven maybe set things back an hour or so.   Is it really worth it for a hand?  So no one really had the power to undo much of anything she had done.

[DojoToad]

A hand plus whatever else she had set in motion...

[Voidhawk2]

23 hours ago, DojoToad said:

 

Again, my issue wasn't that they didn't balefire her - but that they didn't even consider it.  The 'good' characters did consider doing other bad things but then chose not to, or were overruled.  Using balefire on Semirhage not only would have restored Rand's hand, but who knows how other many 'evil' actions/plans it would have undone - she is a Forsaken after all.  But my arguement isn't for or against actual use in this instance - but that an obvious choice was overlooked.

That's what makes them the "good guys though: the fact that they don't even consider killing someone in cold blood, no matter how many lives it might save.

[Jsbrads2]

VoidHawk, is that what it means to be good?

[Voidhawk2]

I would say that it's a major part of what defines them as good characters

Edited August 24, 2020 by Voidhawk2

[DojoToad]

You can bet he would have done it if that fireball had taken out Min. 

[Voidhawk2]

Very true

[Jsbrads2]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:10 AM, Voidhawk2 said:

I would say that it's a major part of what defines them as good characters

I think shooting a serial killer in the back as he attempts to flee into a city he can hide and kill again is good.

there are mountain top monks (I’m sure many of them are also good people who help others, but I am refuting a caricature) who isolate themselves from the world and try to live up to an ideal and ignore all people and don’t even live a life. That isn’t even a little good, it may even be a little evil, if they can help others and live a good life of their own doing it. 

[Terova]

On 8/18/2020 at 7:38 AM, Jsbrads2 said:

Many lives would be saved if good people would just stab black ajah in the back. 

 

With this reasoning, the Dark One would gladly welcome you to team shadow. 

 

The end does not generally justify the means. 

[Voidhawk2]

Agreed

[Jsbrads2]

Shadar Logoth ?

Punisher And Deathwish resonate with me. 

[Melodious Androl]

On 8/15/2020 at 6:29 AM, DojoToad said:

When Semirhage was captured and Rand lost his hand, why wasn’t balefire considered to restore Rand?

 

I understand ruling it out - after all having a captive Forsaken could be quite valuable. But it never was discussed in either KoD or tGS. 

 

Anyone else find it odd?  Just never came up...

 

 

I think that it is more strange that she wasn't just KOS'ed. She is an incredibly powerful forsaken with the ultimate torture resisting skills. Just a tiny weave of balefire to take care of the Forsaken in the basement. Wasn't anyone worried a black sister might help her escape?