You're In Good Hands: The Beau Tomteer Law Firm Mafia GAME THREAD

[Cass]

18 hours ago, Clovdyx said:

vote Katiora

 

Really. 

 

18 hours ago, Clovdyx said:

If I was made accuser right now and had to pick someone, I'd accuse Penguin.  This is solely because I was making a mental list at my desk before lunch to try to organize my thoughts.  He was the only person I couldnt remember.

 

I have no idea how successful this method would be. 

 

I really can't hate this yet.

 

16 hours ago, seph said:

[coler=red]tripped[\color][\b]

 

Why?

[Kaylee]

Official Vote Count

 

Cass (1) - Dice

Katiora (2) - Clov, Cass

Tripped (2) - Seph, AJ

Lenlo (1) - Lenlo

 

Not Voting: everyone else 

 

Deadline has been set for 8 PM E/ST on 11/30

 

About 13.5 hours from this post

 

 

 

 

[dicetosser1]

thanks kaylee

 

[Cass]

Oy.

 

So much Cass talk.

 

13 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

Talk to me about Cass.  I thought she seemed pretty engaged last night while we were interacting and had decent questions.  Does she normally have a pretty decent D1 compared to other days if she's mafia?  I thought someone else, maybe AJ said she's easier to catch later in the game?

 

Yes and no. Decent would be stretching it in either alignment. But I do love shiny new things, so D1 is always more peppy for me regardless of alignment. But honest to Light I hate Scumming and the WIM is very rarely there these days. I don't think I've survived a scum game in forever, with the exception of the Pirates of the Carribean one here - and I had special incentive my hubby was playing and it was his first/hitherto only game. Anybody who tries to tell you I don't suffer so badly from #freeze and soul-destruction after D1 as Scum is lying.

 

13 hours ago, Clovdyx said:

 

No.

 

She is a fairly sporadic poster in terms of activity, probably because her hours are so much different than everybody else's.  I would guess her volume is slightly higher as town than mafia.  She's a very inquisitive player and that shows in her posts when she's town - and she's smart enough to mimic that as mafia.  I give her very little credit for asking a bunch of questions and am much more concerned with how her thoughts develop.  Beyond that, it's just "do I believe she actually has this concern?"

 

It...doesn't always work great?

 

Slightly feels like a very big undersell to me, post D1 anyway.

 

13 hours ago, dicetosser1 said:

 

 

disagree    shes high vol as scum too. Tone tends to stay the same too.  trust me ive been screwed over by her enuff times to know

 

This is a standard Dice response to me in either alignment.

 

13 hours ago, Clovdyx said:

 

So to answer your question about D1... I guess?  She wins a pretty decent percent of her mafia games and doesn't get lynched often (as either alignment).  She's never been lynched D1 as mafia that I'm aware of?

 

This is no longer true, in the sense of me surviving at least, and hasn't been for a very long time.

With the exception of the game Rich played - compulsory motivation - I haven't survived a mafia rand since 2015.

 

12 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

Okay.  Thank you, that was ~helpful.  Do either of you think she has better than average D1 reads when she's town?

 

 

Probably not/I wouldn't be confident in directing the lynch based on my own feels here yet, if that's what you're getting at?

 

My best reads are on the people whose personalities I know best, when they act in a way that hits a secret code or reeeeeeeeeeeeallly doesn't gel with how I think they would react. Or someone does something so scummy in relation to me that I have very little doubt. So without extensive analysis of a player's ISO, my reads are best/really depend on whether a person feels sincere or not/whether certain behaviour cues occur. 

 

On this roster I feel confident in some secret codes for TownDice, Mayyyybe Nyn, AJ wolfing with a sappy team, and I like to think I'm getting better at understanding/believing in TownKat and TownHalli.

 

I don't feel I'll ever understand Chris, but I really, really want to.

 

12 hours ago, Clovdyx said:

 

Bold - I could not disagree with you more.  One, based on the OP, there is no time to sit there and go every detail - you have to know who you're accusing when it happens (if there is a time delay, this is less significant).  Two, paranoia leads to tinfoiling on clear towns because "what if you're wrong".  

 

Red - I said to accuse, not be accused.  And for the record, you don't need to tell me that you think you're a bad lynch.  I know you feel that way ?

 

Bold is the same thing -_-

 

Also, FWIW at this point I would go off consensus Scum and provide my case/observations on that player only.

 

Underline - the 'what if you're wrong?' exists for every decision on every player  to some extent - and I don't see why/how in the above scenario a 'clear town' would be up for the lynch?

 

[Cass]

@dicetosser1 - why wouldn't Seph be a good accuser, iyo?

[Clovdyx]

44 minutes ago, Cass said:

 

What puts each of us in your WTL?

 

And do you mean that I'm your top vote for scum of these three?

 

That I wasnt comfortable enough with any of you to outright refuse to lynch you. 

 

No, I thought you were the towniest of you three.  Or more accurately, you're the one I felt most likely to BE town.

 

Tiny little grapes.

[dicetosser1]

3 minutes ago, Cass said:

@dicetosser1 - why wouldn't Seph be a good accuser, iyo?

 

 

its mostly a feeling not sure how to word it.  he comes at things from a very different angle i guess   even more different then mine is at times. not sure people would get what hes seeing.

[Clovdyx]

@Cass I dont feel good answering why Kat is the most +EV person to vote right now right now (as in...dont want to currently explain why... she is the best person to move votes on in the present time)

 

If I'm alive in three days and it's not abundantly clear yet, someone ask me then.

[Cass]

@TrippedOnReality - who are you considering voting for Accuser, and why?

 

FTR I like the feel of Tripped's line of questioning, here.

 

I think Chris and Dice's responses are mostly NAI.

 

I ~don't think~ Dice would put me in this position as Scum, given that I believe he believes what he's saying about my play and the advantages/disadvantages, and the Kingmaker game he references had me in the decider position all game - and we won.

[dicetosser1]

im out for the night  will be here at some point in the morning but not for actual dl i dont think

 

i have to go house hunting for a new place.

[Cass]

Just now, Clovdyx said:

@Cass I dont feel good answering why Kat is the most +EV person to vote right now right now (as in...dont want to currently explain why... she is the best person to move votes on in the present time)

 

If I'm alive in three days and it's not abundantly clear yet, someone ask me then.

 

Again can't hayyyte this yet.

 

#Fearofpocketing and the scariest-scum-team-plans but I appreciate you

[Clovdyx]

1 minute ago, Cass said:

@TrippedOnReality - who are you considering voting for Accuser, and why?

 

FTR I like the feel of Tripped's line of questioning, here.

 

I think Chris and Dice's responses are mostly NAI.

 

I ~don't think~ Dice would put me in this position as Scum, given that I believe he believes what he's saying about my play and the advantages/disadvantages, and the Kingmaker game he references had me in the decider position all game - and we won.

 

FWIW if someone told me I had to make my final vote right now and would spend the rest of the day handcuffed in somebody's basement, I'd vote tripped.  I think she's well within her town range, nearly (entirely?? Not quite but close) out if her town range, and shes an incredibly talented player that will make an extremely strategic accusation choice regardless of what they flip.

 

I'd say me or AJ, but I dont think theres a universe where I get chosen and AJ being mafia isnt so unlikely I quit playing forever (still think hes >>> rand town).  

[Cass]

3 minutes ago, dicetosser1 said:

 

 

its mostly a feeling not sure how to word it.  he comes at things from a very different angle i guess   even more different then mine is at times. not sure people would get what hes seeing.

 

2 minutes ago, dicetosser1 said:

im out for the night  will be here at some point in the morning but not for actual dl i dont think

 

i have to go house hunting for a new place.

 

This is also ~OK from a TownDice perspective and tone afaict. 

 

Still no keycode though.

[Clovdyx]

"Chris, I thought you said Kat shou-"

 

No, I said people voting for her is insanely +EV.

[Cass]

Night Dicey

 

And I'm heading home now, will probably still try and catch up, but I'll likely be sporadic tomorrow after daybreak - home with my youngest and it depends on what he wants to do/if he'll go down for a nap.

 

 

[TrippedOnReality]

I’m going to try to go back to sleep because it’s still dark, but I mostly had similar thought as Dice did in his reads list. I though when he posted it was pretty decent timing as well. 

 

Uh, people I’d vote to be accuser...Cass, maybe Chris or Kat, for raisins.  I wouldn’t be overly excited about it, but I’m ~okay with it being me as well, if it means one of my non-preferred people aren’t accusing. 

 

I think lenlo is likely to be town, but I’m not sure that AJ is the direction I want the lynch to go today, so i probably wouldn’t vote there.

 

I don’t think Darthe could make an informed choice right now.  

 

I don’t want Darc to hate me for the rest of the game so I probably wouldn’t vote there either. She also seems to be struggling a bit to get into the game because of how quoting works here. I understand some of the frustration because I had the same frustration navigating the mechanics of the site and I know she prefers to multi-quote.  I also think it’s unlikely that she’d get the votes at this point. I still think she’s more likely to be town here. 

 

i keep flipping back and forth on seph. On one hand some of the longer posts I have had very similar thoughts, but at the same time, I kind of disagree with some of the reasons for the stance on thinking what Cass did with leaning more town on Seph was pretty meh.  At best it was an overstatement of how pro-town it was. 

 

Im struggling with what to do about Dice as well. He sounds incredibly reasonable, and I thought we had a pretty decent conversation last night. I feel like the previous games we played he  was more reserved, and far more paranoid about things. Particularly in the game Dice, me, and AJ played on PerC I thought Dice/AJ had a really interesting dynamic that I’m just not seeing here. Part of it was probably because I think AJ might have been the only person Dice knew.  I’m also not sure how I feel about Dice being willing to let Lenlo accuse, especially if lenlo is still going to push the AJ thing. Dice thought that lenlo/AJ was a t/t interaction, so that seems like not a great option. 

 

I want to read AJ as town. Probably wouldn’t trust him to decide who to lynch right now though. 

 

My biggest issue is I have probably too many town reads/leans for how early we are in the game so I’m almost certainly misclearing someone.  I wouldn’t be opposed to accusing Penguin/Bwn, but the fact that no one is really defending him makes me feel like he’s alone. That said, I do think he’s a strong enough player that I don’t think he’d encourage his teammates to bail him out, so there is that as well. 

 

Hallia not posting much isn’t helping me either. Same with Nyn. Would very much like to see more from these three. 

 

I probably missed someone in that list because tired. 

 

Im going back to sleep now.  So if there are other questions I missed on my quick skim I’ll respond when I get up in a few hours. 

 

[Clovdyx]

Tripped should vote Kat imo ?

[seph]

3 hours ago, Cass said:

 

Halp.

 

How were you viewing her?

 

You dislike how she posted it because it  -what- nothing more?

You need to catch up ?

 

2 hours ago, dicetosser1 said:

 

 

its mostly a feeling not sure how to word it.  he comes at things from a very different angle i guess   even more different then mine is at times. not sure people would get what hes seeing.

This! ? people never follow me lmao. I feel like I generally have good reads (-aj and that lylo? Still super sorry)

I’m just very bad at explaining things. I model my game after a few, Well how I go about reading them. I just have a hard time explaining what I see in a coherent sentence ?

 

 

[Kaylee]

Official Vote Count

 

Cass (1) - Dice

Katiora (2) - Clov, Cass

Tripped (2) - Seph, AJ

Lenlo (1) - Lenlo

 

Not Voting: everyone else 

 

Deadline has been set for 8 PM E/ST on 11/30

 

About 10.5 hours from this post

 

3 hours ago, dicetosser1 said:

thanks kaylee

 

Welcome

[TrippedOnReality]

2 hours ago, Cass said:

Oy.

 

So much Cass talk.

 

 

Yes and no. Decent would be stretching it in either alignment. But I do love shiny new things, so D1 is always more peppy for me regardless of alignment. But honest to Light I hate Scumming and the WIM is very rarely there these days. I don't think I've survived a scum game in forever, with the exception of the Pirates of the Carribean one here - and I had special incentive my hubby was playing and it was his first/hitherto only game. Anybody who tries to tell you I don't suffer so badly from #freeze and soul-destruction after D1 as Scum is lying.

 

 

Slightly feels like a very big undersell to me, post D1 anyway.

 

 

This is a standard Dice response to me in either alignment.

 

 

This is no longer true, in the sense of me surviving at least, and hasn't been for a very long time.

With the exception of the game Rich played - compulsory motivation - I haven't survived a mafia rand since 2015.

 

 

Probably not/I wouldn't be confident in directing the lynch based on my own feels here yet, if that's what you're getting at?

 

My best reads are on the people whose personalities I know best, when they act in a way that hits a secret code or reeeeeeeeeeeeallly doesn't gel with how I think they would react. Or someone does something so scummy in relation to me that I have very little doubt. So without extensive analysis of a player's ISO, my reads are best/really depend on whether a person feels sincere or not/whether certain behaviour cues occur. 

 

On this roster I feel confident in some secret codes for TownDice, Mayyyybe Nyn, AJ wolfing with a sappy team, and I like to think I'm getting better at understanding/believing in TownKat and TownHalli.

 

I don't feel I'll ever understand Chris, but I really, really want to.

 

 

 

Yeah, I was mostly trying to get a feel for if you’d be a good choice based on your D1 reads. 

 

That sounds like like a lot of words for basically the Liz equivalent of “soul reading”.  Thank you for the clarification though. It’s helpful.  Is there anyone you wouldn’t want to see be accused at this point?

 

I have the opposite problem with Chris: I understand him (and he understands me) too well.  So while I understand perfectly well what he’s saying or doing at any given time, it’s never clear to me that any of it is alignment indicative. The last game we played when Chris was scum, I had an entire argument with myself in my notes QT about whether him trying to find the mechanally cleared towny was more likely to come from town!Chris or scum!Chris.  I decided it was equally likely, which was not helpful. ?

 

The flip side of that is when Chris was town the last game we played, the two of us lynched scum D1 by ourselves.  So...can be a blessing and a curse to some degree. 

 

 

[TrippedOnReality]

51 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

Tripped should vote Kat imo ?

 

lol...I gathered that. 

 

Talk to me about Dice and Seph. 

[darc-star]

12 hours ago, Cass said:

 

How so? 

 

 

 

Is this about Penguin?

 

Umm... I worked since i selected this, so I'll click the link and go back before answering

 

12 hours ago, DontTrustThePenguins said:

So erm... What part of "I haven't read" do people not understand?

 

And Darc, do not pressure me to play when I say I'm busy. And a little bit of background for those who don't know - I was pissed off last game because I literally went for dinner with Darc straight after work, left at about half ten or whatever it was, she knew I had work in the morning, and then posted at ~1am I think it was where was I and why hadn't I been posting. So yeah.

 

I leave saying you can all think what you like about me, you can all accuse me and you can all vote me off but please be looking elsewhere while I'm gone and people are still talking about how I'm busy. It's a distraction.

 

Last I'm gonna say on this subject because it never gets us anywhere

But how is me saying that you bring busy is nai "pressuring you to play"?, I mean, sure, i would like you to play, but I'm not asking any more than i have of anybody else who agreed to play...

I didn't see you say you hadn't read, but yea, obviously you didn't read my posts on you

I explained that it was the promising work and the fact that i can't be sure if you can or can't physically produce the work you promised or not last game, end of my side, there's literally nothing else i can add, i apologise that i was wrong on why i pushed scum you

This game i happen to feel the same, that if you've had time to pick out quotes on a polygraph machine, i personally feel like you could have used that time instead to have read a couple of game related posts instead

I could be wrong, again, i don't know, but if that's all i have to judge you on, i just can't read you town, and it sucks

But i hereby give up on trying to read you if it upsets you, it's not worth that or fun for anybody

 

11 hours ago, seph said:

Ok darc The last thing I want to do is make someone angry. I like to see from a persons perspective why they think what they are thinking is all.

these are all your relevant posts from the Entire game... yes I searched the whole thing if I missed some let me know.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

Only mention of hallia?

This was talking about dice.

The dice read I missed. Is the only reason his activity so far? I know you posted later you liked him which is inc.

More dice

[\spoiler]

 

I did add that i guess i can understand it, and i feel like you're more surface reading here (and below) because you seen to miss me talking about someone when i don't directly use their name... Probably my fault for expecting the quote to serve as context when people naturally skip that part

 

11 hours ago, Lenlo said:

I have no idea how Nyn is. I havnt played with her in like... 2 years. And what I remember is us being on a wolf team together.

 

As for your intent, reference my conversation with Clov. We already had that talk. Basically, I'm not sure, but its pinged me the most, its D1 and I have nothing else to go off of. At the very least, I see no reason for a towny to be concerned with me bringing it up for others to think about. Its D1. We have to start somewhere. Why not start there?

 

Heck, this entire conversation is gonna make for some great reaction judging when people get back, with plenty of time before end of D1. Look at that, even if we both disagree we have actual content. This plus Seph's darc hangup should give us plenty to atleast get somewhere useful.

 

I dunno, like, i feel both of you are responsible for making this such a big thing

Neither of you are letting go when you both admit it's something small?

Fwiw, i understand that you think the wording is off, but i also understand what he was trying to say, in that he feels comfortable that he can read her given more time, and she can be a town asset

 

11 hours ago, seph said:

When you came back into the thread

 

  Hide contents

 

Messed up posts suuuuck

 

Posts about me. I know it messed your stuff up but these are very vague reasons and would appreciate it if you could clarify it a bit more.

 

Second towards me, which I responded to

 

You answering my question regarding penguins playtype but you don’t post thoughts on him for this game. Besides that you want to see more.

 

A read with no raisens, but you posted earlier about dice. If you can expand on your reasons t would be cool!

More about your one and only. And I was trying to understand her ?

More about last game and asking about more but no thoughts of this games play.

Here we end with this.

[\spoiler]

So could you clarify your reasons for myself?

and if someone can quote your post from the last quote in my spoiler here it would be appreciated, but I did not see it.

If not I would like to know why you wouldn’t want to accuse lenlo. And maybe some reasons for halo being so low as well

 

 

 

I can't really expand on most of that stuff... Those are my thoughts (and i can't remember exactly what was quoted), and generally they're just an expansion on someone else's thoughts, or alterations, and in rare cases i might even disagree outright

So, again, what's in the thing i quote is probably useful in understanding where I'm coming from, but i can also be influenced by people's opinions that i don't directly acknowledge, so i know people don't always follow me

 

Like, i work a lot on tone and meta, alongside general consensus for things I'm unsure on, so it'll take me a while to get used to you guys

 

I started to feel a bit more comfortable on dice as others were sharing meta on him and feeling comfortable around him, i remember that one at least

As for len, i just haven't seen anything worth accusing at that point

Now there's more from him, but i dunno if dreading it an argument is just his way of trying to figure aj out, or just trying to find something to push

Hali started as a trash read, for her having to specify that she meant town by same team, but i haven't seen much since

And I'm just confused on you now, i can see some effort at reading people now, so maybe it's just that im not used to your style?

 

11 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

Lenlo, what's your read on Darc right now?

 

Also, can anyone comment on how likely is that mafia!Lenlo and mafia!AJ get into an epic battle to distance?

 

Trying to decide if that whole thing was T/T or what.  

 

Wouldn't expect it to be w/w

Of course, after this len went and said that he could do it as wolf, so...

 

11 hours ago, seph said:

I have had her as slight town since early on. I don’t really know her scum game like some here.

by avoiding me I ment more of like she was questioning everyone but me. And with some things I said I honestly expected to be in the wot lol.

 

This is the second time you've seemed very self aware

Is that normal for you?

 

10 hours ago, dicetosser1 said:

 

Wheel of Time

 

 

or in mafia terms  Wall of Text

 

Thank you

I thought it was just a cool version of what, which was confusing

 

10 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

That's kind of where I was leaning, too.  It seemed weird for teammates.  And I was just having a hard time seeing mafia!Lenlo going yolo against town!AJ over next to nothing after not playing for a year?  idk...maybe Lenlo is an aggressive player as scum, but that just seems like a pretty bold choice given the roster.  there are easier skirmishes to pick I guess.  I don't disagree that AJ seemed frustrated, but I could see any alignment!AJ getting frustrated over something like that, so I don't think the frustration is particularly AI.  I have no idea if mafia!AJ would continue arguing about it though?

 

 

I could see that scum might want to latch onto the first thing that they see, and he did admit that it was pretty much all he had to go on

But i dunno as scum would admit that so openly, so it's a wash

 

10 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

Why though?

 

❤️

 

10 hours ago, seph said:

because randomly adding a town higher to your poe based off a few posts makes it harder to ml and looks sketchy if you backtrack. She did give herself a bit of a out aonim interested to see what she says when she catches up but it felt good.

 

that may have just been me liking the compliment lol but still, overall I think it was more of a town mindset. And since I was already leaning that way it made me feel much better.

 

Not really... It's not that hard to just change a read, especially a d1 read based on very little

But i guess if you were already leaning town there... 

 

3 hours ago, Clovdyx said:

"Chris, I thought you said Kat shou-"

 

No, I said people voting for her is insanely +EV.

 

It's like you read my mind

But now i get what you're doing there

 

However vote tripped

Please work

Didn't really expect to find anybody better that i could trust more, and she says she's willing, so bonus

[Kaylee]

Official Vote Count

 

Cass (1) - Dice

Katiora (2) - Clov, Cass

Tripped (3) - Seph, AJ, Darc

Lenlo (1) - Lenlo

 

Not Voting: everyone else 

 

Deadline has been set for 8 PM E/ST on 11/30

 

About 9 hours from this post

[Clovdyx]

1 hour ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

lol...I gathered that. 

 

Talk to me about Dice and Seph. 

 

Dice is a middle-aged Australian man.

 

I'm...not really sure what demographics seph  belongs to.

 

Nothing either has done has made me feel particularly strongly about either.   I'm not super at reading Dice but usually ~okayish.  Hes a very intuitive player with strong emotions, so my basis for reading him is basically honesty of his pushez/reads.  No alarms there.

 

I've done...not great...with seph.  Tbf I've been mafia against him a lot so dont really need to, but the last time I failed pretty miserably.  I did like where his head was at with bwn and lenlo last night so I felt better than I did.

[darc-star]

13 hours ago, Cass said:

 

How so? 

 

 

Is this about Penguin?

 

Oh, oh

The meta on dice

Like, some people say he's grumpy as scum, some say he always is, some say different stuff