Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[Nolder]

 

So I'll be honest here. The Force Awakens got a lukewarm response from me.

I am not about to let these movies just skate by on nostalgia alone.

 

That said, if even some of the things this trailer teases comes to pass I think I will finally be able to embrace this new trilogy as a legitimate and successful successor to the franchise.

Not going to lie, I haven't been excited for a Star Wars movie since Attack of the Clones (what a mistake that was) so my hopes are high.

Really hoping they aren't dashed once again...

 

Thoughts on the trailer?

[Dada alAlivia]

Trailers -- Uggh!   I tend to like movies a lot better going in with zero expectation and having no idea what's coming.   Based on the trailer its got potential.   I think I might have liked Force Awakens a little more than you did, but I did feel it was a little predictable.   And they gave away all the best imagery in the trailer.   But here I am like a peeking kid unwrapping presents a month early and taping them back up, gobbling up every trailer I can.  

 

I'm like you I think.  Hopeful but not necessarily optimistic.  Lots to potentially get wrong (or right?).  Not sure I can take our Kylo Ren seriously as a villain.   What will Rey's story be and how much of it will we learn this time around?   Luke might be an interesting character now -- or maybe not.  

[Nolder]

I have to say, Luke is already 10x more interesting than he was in TFA.

It helps that he has some lines this time of course lol.

[Gentled Ben]

Well, I liked Rey, and this looks like she will become really strong and have some conflict in regards to which side of the Force she will serve, so I am optimistic that it will be good. Then again, I am a casual Star Wars fan, and I don't set the bar that high, although I thought the Phantom Menace was pretty weak, and even though I like Natalie Portman in general, I hated her as Amendala (sp) because she seemed wooden the entire time. 

 

I liked Attack of the Clones. That was the second one, right? That one was much better than the Phantom Menace, and the last one was okay, too.

 

The one-off was really good. I liked that it was a complete story, and the droid was a wonderful character. I'd like to see more little side adventures like that.

[Nolder]

Well, I liked Rey, and this looks like she will become really strong and have some conflict in regards to which side of the Force she will serve, so I am optimistic that it will be good. Then again, I am a casual Star Wars fan, and I don't set the bar that high, although I thought the Phantom Menace was pretty weak, and even though I like Natalie Portman in general, I hated her as Amendala (sp) because she seemed wooden the entire time. 

 

I liked Attack of the Clones. That was the second one, right? That one was much better than the Phantom Menace, and the last one was okay, too.

 

The one-off was really good. I liked that it was a complete story, and the droid was a wonderful character. I'd like to see more little side adventures like that.

Whaaaaaaaaaat?

 

Phantom Menace was clearly the best of the prequel trilogy.

Don't make me come over there!

 

[SinisterDeath]

 

Well, I liked Rey, and this looks like she will become really strong and have some conflict in regards to which side of the Force she will serve, so I am optimistic that it will be good. Then again, I am a casual Star Wars fan, and I don't set the bar that high, although I thought the Phantom Menace was pretty weak, and even though I like Natalie Portman in general, I hated her as Amendala (sp) because she seemed wooden the entire time. 

 

I liked Attack of the Clones. That was the second one, right? That one was much better than the Phantom Menace, and the last one was okay, too.

 

The one-off was really good. I liked that it was a complete story, and the droid was a wonderful character. I'd like to see more little side adventures like that.

Whaaaaaaaaaat?

 

Phantom Menace was clearly the best of the prequel trilogy.

Don't make me come over there!

 

 

The only way I can enjoy the prequels, is if this theory were true.

[Gentled Ben]

 

Well, I liked Rey, and this looks like she will become really strong and have some conflict in regards to which side of the Force she will serve, so I am optimistic that it will be good. Then again, I am a casual Star Wars fan, and I don't set the bar that high, although I thought the Phantom Menace was pretty weak, and even though I like Natalie Portman in general, I hated her as Amendala (sp) because she seemed wooden the entire time. 

 

I liked Attack of the Clones. That was the second one, right? That one was much better than the Phantom Menace, and the last one was okay, too.

 

The one-off was really good. I liked that it was a complete story, and the droid was a wonderful character. I'd like to see more little side adventures like that.

Whaaaaaaaaaat?

 

Phantom Menace was clearly the best of the prequel trilogy.

Don't make me come over there!

 

 

It seemed like an overly-long car chase movie, except with pod races instead. 

[Tyzack]

 

Well, I liked Rey, and this looks like she will become really strong and have some conflict in regards to which side of the Force she will serve, so I am optimistic that it will be good. Then again, I am a casual Star Wars fan, and I don't set the bar that high, although I thought the Phantom Menace was pretty weak, and even though I like Natalie Portman in general, I hated her as Amendala (sp) because she seemed wooden the entire time. 

 

I liked Attack of the Clones. That was the second one, right? That one was much better than the Phantom Menace, and the last one was okay, too.

 

The one-off was really good. I liked that it was a complete story, and the droid was a wonderful character. I'd like to see more little side adventures like that.

Whaaaaaaaaaat?

 

Phantom Menace was clearly the best of the prequel trilogy.

Don't make me come over there!

 

 

 

There was no Episode 1. The Movie Of Which We Shall Not Speak does not exist.

[Tyzack]

Anyway, back to the trailer; it wasn't really anything new, just a bunch of smash-cut action scenes, with one line of dark-ish dialog at the end (Rey and Ren), but we all saw that coming (if not in basic plot structure than in the tone of the first trailer).

[Tyzack]

I mean, I'm clearly gonna go see it...

[Nolder]

[wotfan4472]

So, what did everyone think of the film itself. I find it the disappointing equivalent of the insulting; in my opinion; Star trek into darkness. I also have to admit, at least RJ and BS answered our questions. Imagine if the books did this. The film is very disappointing to me.

[Gentled Ben]

I liked the series better when Lucas was spinning the tale. It felt more like mythology then; now, it just feels like a story. It is still entertaining, but it lacks the weight that it had before. 

 

I had hoped it would take an interesting twist when

Kylo Ren offered his hand to Rey and invited her to let it all burn and rule the universe with him.

I was really pulling for that to happen, as that would have been rather fresh and unexpected, allowing the story to go somewhere unique, but alas.

[Tyzack]

It's hard for me to write this w/o spoilers...so...

 

 

 

I liked the movie, in general. I thought that the dialog was horrible, and it was seriously lacking on world-building, but we're now 8 movies in and have yet to have solid building on what the force is/can do/can't do. It's a bit of a writer/directors "get out of jail free card" which, again, at this point isn't fixable.

 

Aside from that, and the horrible dialog - they were trying to be campy and failed, which is the worst kind of campy - it enjoyed the plot, and I enjoyed the multitude of characters.  

 

The only real issue I had was that we never really got back story on who Snoke is/was.

 

I liked the Ben/Kylo backstory (interesting if simplistic), and I liked the "force will find balance" theory, which Yoda also alluded to, and, in general I liked Yoda. In fact the Yoda/Luke scene is was made all the rest of the Luke scenes worth it. 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Tyzack

[Krakalakachkn]

I was really, truly disappointed.

 

I just read that J.J. Abrams is directing IX.  Idk how I feel about that.  Better than I felt about Johnson.

[Krakalakachkn]

Btw I'd love to have an in-depth discussion if anyone is game.

[Tyzack]

Go for it.

 

As I said before:

 

Plot -> Good

Characters -> Good (both in arc and development)

Dialog -> Absolutely horrible

World building -> Inconsistent at best

 

Overall: Good

(Better than Force Awakens or Rouge One)

 

[Gentled Ben]

I liked Rogue One. I must be the only one. It was a fun, self-contained film with tension and humor, complete with a bittersweet ending. It was totally unnecessary, but I feel that it did no harm and offers a way to dip into the story without getting stuck in an 8-film binge. It's a quick Star Wars fix with a likable android.

 

I was really disappointed in the dialogue. Laura Dern in particular disappointed me as the Admiral. She was terrible, so very wooden and unbelievable. I agree that we needed more backstory on Snope. As it was, he was jsut a generic, pop-up villain. Weak...

[Krakalakachkn]

@Gentled Ben I thought Rogue One was the best Star Wars film since Phantom Menace.  I won't know which one I prefer until I see how RO ages.

 

 

 

1. The Prodigious Use of the Force
   1. The problem I had with TLJ is how they introduce all these force powers and offer no understanding to the viewers.  They just plop it in the lap and say "deal with it."  The average viewer can't make that leap, it's not believable.  I'm speaking specifically about Leia Spacewalker and Luke Mindtosser. 
2. Hyperspace as a Weapon
   1. I didn't have a real problem with Laura Dern in her role, the problem I had was with the use of hyperspace to destroy Snoke's ship.  Yes it was awesome.  But now every person must ask themselves, "if this was always an option, why in the everloving hell didn't someone do this to the death star or any other ship ever?"  If they want to debut it as "new tech" then again, they need to offer an explanation
   2. The new movies also disregard planetary gravity wells which bothers me.  Like how they jump to hyperspace while 50ft off the ground of that jedi planet. 
3. Dameron Poe
   1. Not a believable character.  I don't care how few people are left in the rebellion, if someone acts like this dude then he is either shot, exiled, or put in the brig.  Yes he's a great pilot but when someone commits treason they commit treason.  And not only that but he keeps making poor decisions that bite everyone in the ass.
4. Casino Planet & Rose & Finn
   1. That whole storyline was lame, the moral lesson was...unctuous.
   2. I love a strong woman character, especially one from SE Asia, but she was an unnecessary character a offering a vacuous and unnecessary moral lesson.
   3. Finn offered nothing to the story and should have died long ago.  Or been written a helluva lot better.  Either one would have been fine with me.  I'm not okay with him killing Phasma.  She better not be dead.
   4. How are you just going to land a spacecraft on a beach and run off not expecting consequences?  Is there no regulation of ship traffic on this planet?
5. Snoke
   1. I'm not one who thinks Star Wars needs another strong, iconic villain like Vader or Sidious to make this trilogy great.  I don't love that Snoke had a weak back story but it's not something I'm harping on.  The same goes for his death.  
   2. However, with a lack backup villain (or ideally a team-up of Rey and Ben), the story really misses here.  Either Snoke is super badass or you (preferably) go in a new direction.
6. Rey & Ben
   1. Well this just makes me sad.  Just like how Lucas completely missed on his Anakin character and all the great possibilities, here Johnson (and by extension Abrams) completely miss on what could have been a fresh new take on the series.  Instead they just rehash territory already trod by literally every other star wars movie.  Lines are never truly blurred and it's just so terribly boring.  So so so boring.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Krakalakachkn

[Gentled Ben]

I totally agree regarding Poe. He's completely insubordinate, and while that will fly with Han Solo, who is a smuggler and not a soldier, it would not fly with any soldier, certainly not for as long as it has with Poe. On that note, it really bothered me in TLJ when Poe walked up to Leia, who was conferencing at a table over some maps with her advisors, and interrupted to introduce her to his new buddy, Finn. I understand that these are main characters now, so it is natural to have them interact with other major characters, but there is a command structure, and I just don't see any random soldier in any military interrupting the commanding officer to introduce them to their new buddy. I think Finn is an interesting and likable enough character, though. Poe can die right now.

 

I'm glad that beyond my best friend, I am not the only one who had hoped for Rey and Ren to team up together. The director indeed blew that.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Gentled Ben

[Tyzack]

RO was an amazing "Star Wars as a place" movie - exploring the universe with throw away characters.

 

I agree that Po was functionally useless in TLJ - and personally I think he was supurfluous in TFA. Correct me if I'm wrong but he's there to take up the other half of the jedi master/amazing pilot combination which was in Luke and Anakin, and therefore it is expected that auidences like/want an amazing pilot ... basically, at this point, to CGI cool stuff? He's diposal.

 

I liked the casino planet sub-plot; leaving the spaceship on the beach makes sense for Fin, as he has no experince with "life?" outside the order; the girl could've helped. The moral statement - war makes monsters of us all - is not new, and probably could have been told better.

 

Snoke is/was the worst star wars villian in that he's built up to be more than a one-off throwaway (like maul or duko), but is way more powerful? My guess is it's done so that there are no "other threads" in the final show-down. 

 

The "what can the force do" questions raised by this are annoying because we're 40 years and 8 movies in; the world/magic system should be well established by now.

 

I still think it was a good movie.

[For the record I'm comparing it what would generically be called these days as "super-hero" movies, not to LotR, or anything ... basically because it fails the comparison to epic fantasy/sci-fi so spectacularly if you were to hold it to those standards it would be horrible]

[SinisterDeath]

Re: Leia;

This movie takes place 30-40+ years after Episode 6? It didn't take much suspension of belief to figure that Leia had plenty of time to pick up a few tricks from Luke, a possible connection to Luke like Rey has with Ren. (I mean.. How have people not picked that up?) and of course the ol' "The force imparted to her the knowledge of how to Force Pull/Shield her self "

 

Plus apparently space-walking has been covered in the novels, and possibly the animated series? (going off of everything I've heard)

 

Re: Hyperspace as a Weapon

Maybe it's a size/mass thing? AFAIK the ship they were using was the largest the Rebels have ever had, and while less massive then Snoke's ship, it wasn't like an X-Wing. My guess? Perhaps it was a lets see if this works + kamikaze run. (It also strikes me as a blatant rip off of the Picard Maneuver gone horribly wrong.)
Side note: No one finds it at all troubling that the Rebels employ sucide bombings, and if the ending show's us anything, Child Soldiers?

 

Re: Casino Planet

Only problem I had with this, was it took to long.

 

Re: Snoke

This was a meh factor to me. Ohh things didn't go as planned and we didn't get to hear his backstory before being killed! Surprises/Twists and what's effectively a 2 movie long Aristocrat Joke (Long winded story, boring punch line), if anything was them trolling the die-hard fans that got there panties in a twist over a black storm trooper. 

Re: Rey & Ben

The fake romance going between them is ... whatever? I mean, I don't exactly what to see Ben with no shirt on.. I don't think many ladies do either. Rey's just.. out of his league.

If anything, I'm not entirely positive what the end game was for Snoke to force-connect him to Rey. Re-create a Padme/Anakin thing maybe?


I do like the aspect that everyone's prophecies are wrong. They get the words right, but the details don't pan out how they expect them to. How will Ben's prophecies back fire? Can he single highhandedly kill an army of child-Jedi like Anakin did? Or is that something not even Ben can do?

[SinisterDeath]

Oh, the one thing I absolutely hated about Last Jedi?

 

All the Fan Bois hate on Social Media that completely ruined it, and spoiled every single thing about it with complete disregard to those who haven't seen it. I have two words for those people, that I can't repeat on DM!

 

On the other hand, perhaps all there hate lowered my expectations enough that this movie was decent/good/worth the money for me.

 

[Tiinker]

I didn't really like the Force Awakens at all but at least it had some enjoyment as an action film. 

 

The story here was so bad that I couldn't even enjoy the action because the scenes leading to the action were so mind boggling ridiculous.

 

Examples:

 

Stages a mutiny meanwhile all the leaders on board have a plan (which is a really bad plan. It's just use the escape pods, which the Imperial ship just won't notice for some reason, and go to a nearby planet and chill for a while.

 

Goes and finds a professional code-breaker and comes back within some hours to save the day? What did they accomplish during this whole 30-40 minute episode of the story? 

 

The pilots are speeding towards the battering ram when the base is under attack. Everyone turns back. After deliberating for 5-10 seconds Poe decides to keep on going to suicide to save the day. The girl turns back to follow him. Suddenly the girl shows up out of nowhere flying in from the SIDE to push them both out of the way. Wtf? How did she even catch up let alone fly in at a 90 degree angle? 

 

Kiss now? Kill me.

 

Luke Skywalker - arguably the most powerful jedi to ever live, the one who brought balance to the force, defeated the Sith by saving his father who tortured and killed hundreds.

 

They killed this character in this film. He's going to attempt to kill his sister's son in his sleep because he sees the dark side? Mate.

 

Then, his unwillingness to join the resistance and fix the shit that he started? 

 

 

I hate this film.

 

 

[Tiinker]

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Oh, the one thing I absolutely hated about Last Jedi?

 

All the Fan Bois hate on Social Media that completely ruined it, and spoiled every single thing about it with complete disregard to those who haven't seen it. I have two words for those people, that I can't repeat on DM!

 

On the other hand, perhaps all there hate lowered my expectations enough that this movie was decent/good/worth the money for me.

 

 

It's kind of surprising. The majority of people I know liked this film. The reception seems to be all over the place and depending on who you're friends with, you're going to hear quite different things.