The Mafia Parable: Basic Game OVER

[Eldrick4221]

Vote Count (2.2):

 

Rand (1/5): DPR

DPR (2/5): Rand, Ben

Marsh (1/5): SK

 

Not voting (5/9):

Nyn, Marsh, Sooh, Clov, Verb

 

[DPR]

For the sake of consolidation and self preservation, I'm willing to look at Marsh and Sooh for the lynch.

 

Marsh because I've seen him coast as scum before and because his reversal on Rand feels like coasting to me, along with the fact that he hasn't taken a hard side on anything.

 

Sooh because she hasn't pinged me at all - and that's because she also dod not take sides on anything.

 

The Clov slot should be resolved by BFG, so I'm fine with letting her play that out. Nyn and Verb should move toward resolution for me today with their votes and comments.  

[DPR]

Hey let's bump dl back three hours today to accommodate my schedule and give this absentee thread a bit of time to find its footing.

 

Please confirm exact DL time?

[Darthe]

6:30PM EST

[DPR]

6:30PM EST

 

 

Thank you.

 

Please also confirm scum team?

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

Honestly kinda want to vote sooh

Why?

Because she started off weird, did close to nothing compared to her usual town game, threw around a couple of times comments about how shooting her would be a bad idea.... and then subbed out.

 

Ok, that's what I thought, but it's always best to be clear. Those are the same reasons (other than not acting normal, as I have never played with her before and have no baseline for normal) that have me leaning scum on her, especially since the "you don't wanna shoot me" comments seem like a soft claim for vig, and if she's vig, then she should be more involved in looking for scum or else she's doing the town a disservice by wasting her PR, and she would know that, so she should be popping in more often out of guilt and making excuses as to why she isn't posting or isn't caught up or whatever, or at least, if I had a role that the town was depending on me for, and I wasn't able to play much, I'd feel bad about it and would be trying to touch base often with the assurance that I'm catching up, kind of like that recording when you're on hold that keeps telling you that your call is important to them so please continue to hold, even if I knew they didn't know I was a vig, just because I know it and feel bad about not playing enough to even know how to shoot. Of course, maybe she wasn't soft claiming vig at all, or maybe she is a vig, and she does feel bad, and that's why she's subbing out, OR, she's just mafia and is lurking and soft claiming vig in order to stick around, and now she needs to sub out to someone else to play mafia in a role that everyone is already looking at suspiciously, and that's why Darthe's having trouble finding a player for her.

 

I should probably have more coffee and wake up. That was kind of a ramble, but imma leave it because somewhere in there, there's some kind of a coherent thought, and I'd hate to delete it just because it's buried in words. It's not the thought's fault, you know?

[Eldrick4221]

6:30PM EST

Timer updated

[Eldrick4221]

 

6:30PM EST

Thank you.

 

Please also confirm scum team?

 

 

 

 

 

Scum team confirmed.

 

 

What were you expecting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DPR]

 

 

6:30PM EST

Thank you.

 

Please also confirm scum team?

 

 

 

 

 

Scum team confirmed.

 

 

What were you expecting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You should sub in for Sooh. You've posted more than half of the people in the game.

[Eldrick4221]

I know the setup

[DPR]

I know the setup

 

 

That will totally help!

[BFG]

Evening all :)

 

Hi Nyn

[BFG]

For the sake of consolidation and self preservation, I'm willing to look at Marsh and Sooh for the lynch.

 

Marsh because I've seen him coast as scum before and because his reversal on Rand feels like coasting to me, along with the fact that he hasn't taken a hard side on anything.

 

Sooh because she hasn't pinged me at all - and that's because she also dod not take sides on anything.

 

The Clov slot should be resolved by BFG, so I'm fine with letting her play that out. Nyn and Verb should move toward resolution for me today with their votes and comments.

Can you elaborate on what you meant when you said that Sooh seems less stressed this game then when you've seen her as scum before(?) what's changed between having her null and now?

[BFG]

I don't think I've seen anything from Sooh that's given me a read on her

[DPR]

 

For the sake of consolidation and self preservation, I'm willing to look at Marsh and Sooh for the lynch.

 

Marsh because I've seen him coast as scum before and because his reversal on Rand feels like coasting to me, along with the fact that he hasn't taken a hard side on anything.

 

Sooh because she hasn't pinged me at all - and that's because she also dod not take sides on anything.

 

The Clov slot should be resolved by BFG, so I'm fine with letting her play that out. Nyn and Verb should move toward resolution for me today with their votes and comments.

Can you elaborate on what you meant when you said that Sooh seems less stressed this game then when you've seen her as scum before(?) what's changed between having her null and now?

 

 

 

I don't think I've seen anything from Sooh that's given me a read on her

 

 

I've made multiple remarks about Sooh's posts not ringing any alarms with me, and I probably need to put that into context: I prefer to look at each player as if they were scum, especially during the early days ( 1 & 2 mostly ). Then I like to apply the "can I see it played it that way as town" filter. It ruffles feathers, I know, but it's bene more productive for me than the style some players have adopted by naming others as town, especially on D1. 

 

Okay, as it pertains to Sooh...

 

The games I've played with her, she has been vocal about not enjoying the scum role. She's also been edgy, sometimes snappy, and somewhat disagreeable. This game, she has seemed fairly calm.

 

Having said that, I've also noted that she hasn't really contributed anything, which is a very bad sign for her because she is also analytical and raises good points when she is game solving. 

 

Does all of that make sense?

[Ironeyes]

Holy crap, I was expecting like ten pages of stuff to catch up on when I got back, but then there's this... I'm pretty sure the deadline is in like two hours, which is when I'll be taking a final. So I'll [v]Sooh[/v]. I said she'd have a chance to convince me my initial read was wrong, but this isn't a convincing action. 

 

 

@Ironeyes sure, but reasons were already given to why Hallia was scum you were piling on more reasons. One such reason was: if she flips town it's still good for town is not compelling it doesn't make much sense to me. I am paraphrasing of course it was more along the lines of if hallia is lynched we get to know nyn alignment, so what is nyns alignment Ironeyes? To me it looks like setting up mislynches. #foundscum

[v] Ironeyes [/v]

How much experience do you have playing this game? I ask because this is the kind of post I expect from someone with three games or less under their belt. You are misrepresenting what I said: I never claimed we would "know" Nyn's alignment. I said I would lean a certain way based on the flip. Therefore, my read on Nyn became closer to scum because Hallia was town. It would have gone the opposite way if Hallia had been scum. 

 

Also. I don't set up mislynches as scum. Ask anyone who's ever played with me. Or look in my sig for a summary of my meta, courtesy of Chris. I'm more interested in self-preservation as scum and will try to be everyone's friend. Going out on a limb to say something I know people aren't going to like is more in line with my town game. 

 

 

Marsh (think it was you ) when you voted hallia you said you've seen her tune out as scum before, how much experience do you have with town/mafia Hallia?

I've played at least two games with her as each in the last year or so. Unfortunately my memory for game titles is awful so I'd have to do some research to tell you which ones. 

[Ironeyes]

No wait, that was Cory, not Chris. I feel so bad about how often I mix those two up, especially since in the game quoted they were a hydra.

[Ironeyes]

Going into my final in ten minutes, won't be back for two hours. Good luck everyone. 

[RandA lThor]

 

 

Reads & Reasons Why Players Might be Scum

by

Me

 

...

 

1. Verbal32 - Found it odd he didn't vote D1. Very unhelpful in terms of creating a record to stand on.

2. Ironeyes - Didn't love his reversal on Rand.

 

3. DreadPirateRoberts - Towniest Townie that ever Towned. 

 

4. Clovdyx - Made some good points so far. 

 

5. Gentled Ben - Playing the newbie card up a more than I'd like to see. Terrible instincts?

 

6. LedZepMan - Town Vanilla

 

7. Shitsure Kamimashita - Started game as an active solver. Slowly faded into background after the fingers started pointing.

 

8. Adella - Town 1x Vigilante

 

9. Nynaeve - Felt okay about her until last night. But, her unnecessary personal attacks and lack of game solving points looks bad.

 

10. Sooh - Hasn't really struck me one way or another. She has been open about not enjoying playing as scum before, but she was more stressed about it then. Null.

 

11. Hallia - Town Vanilla

 

12. RandA lThor - Strongest scum read. I don't buy anything he's selling. I've made mutltiple points, and as those are stacking up. Along with yesterday's points, his fit at EoD felt contrived, as did his profanity "slip" and faux outrage. His logic regarding scum skipping the NK is just a disaster. 

 

[v] Rand [/v]

 

 

Aight lets do this for fun.  Besides it being suspicious that I didn't remember how the CoC worked and that I have a problem with unconsciously swearing, what other "multiple points" do you have against me?  I see that you said fit at EoD and faux outrage (though I'm assuming the second is connected to the swearing thing), but what fit at EoD are you talking about?  And my logic regarding scum skipping the NK is a disaster, yet you took 0 time to even argue against it?  Why wouldn't scum skip their NK?

 

 

 

Here ya go pumpkin:

 

1. You joined this PG-13 site when you were about 13, right? And stayed and played mafia for several years, right? Been my experience that everyone is aware of the PG-13 rule - it gets highlighted at least once per game and DM is somewhat unique (at least on the boards I've been on) with that rule. 

 

But you "forgot" it.

 

Okay. 

 

Magically, you have an amazing memory concerning player's habits. That means you forgot DM had a language code, but you remembered smallish details about Verbal and others. 

 

Okay...

 

But then you push it with swearing again on thread, because once again, you just keep forgetting that darn PG-13 rule? And you call it "unconscious swearing", which implies that this happens frequently? It's not game related per say, but I am curious, do you "unconsciously swear" often? Like, in a thesis paper... "The Impact of The F***ing Visigoths During the F***ing Migration Period by Rand F***ing AlThor". Or is it more casual? "Dear Mom & Dad, having a great f***ing time at school! Love, Rand"

 

Thing is, swears convey emotional attachment. That's why people use them. And by conveying emotional attachment in this game, you accomplish a couple of things: you create an air of believability and earnestness and you also to raise the stakes in attacks on your points - kind of like "you don't want to go there with me".

 

These make excellent places for scum to hide. That's what I think you're probably doing. Or, alternatively, we've discovered that you have Tourretet's Syndrome and now you can begin recovery, saving you years of embarrassment on job applications and rsvp's. Win-win.

 

2. And that's where the faux outrage and rahrahrah observations feed in. You notice how you're the only one talking about being around at DL? It's because it's not realistic for everyone to be there, so they just vote. Everybody knows this, so you making a big deal out of people not being around and trying to rally at the end is very likely an attempt to appear super duper townish.

 

You like to use emotion to influence people's opinion of you. It's a decent technique - it's effective as long as nobody pokes holes in the logic of it.

 

So far I've pointed out the possibility that you're using this technique. Your responses to my suss lead me to believe I'm right because a player that wasn't doing it would respond with "whatevs" and not worry about it. You flinched. 

 

3. As for your logic disastrophe, there is no scenario where scum skips their NK on N1. It's a time-bomb setup... they have to knock off as many townies as possible as soon as possible to win. 

 

Anyone looking for a creative way for scum to skip a NK is most likely scum - nobody else would have reason to think like that. 

 

That's why I took 0 time to talk about, and neither did anyone else. 

 

We good now?

 

 

This is a much more fleshed out and formulated argument, thanks

 

1. I've definitely changed a lot since I played here, and one of those ways is that I swear a lot more than when I was here.  And like I have to keep saying over and over again, **I did not forget the rule**, I just forgot how strictly it was enforced and what was OK and not OK.  Also, its much easier to remember someone's personality than change the way that I've been talking for a few years.  No lol, I don't have Tourrette's, but I've also accidentally sworn at family reunions, and uncountable times in front of my parents, fwiw.  It's become part of my casual vocabulary which I don't think is some incredible thing, its fairly common to slip up.  I see what you're saying with the whole "air of believability thing" but that argument doesn't really make sense when you think about it more.  Both town and scum have "earnest" moments in the game where they're trying incredibly hard to do something and will seem very determined.  The opposite is true where both scum and town can seem lazy or uninterested.  Its more of a null tell than a way to separate scum/town.

 

2. When I mentioned my DL thing, there were also others who agreed with me, so its not like it was just me.  And also, like I mentioned before, the thing wasn't just being around at DL.  LZM wasn't around and I was fine with that.  He also mentioned that he wouldn't be there at DL, which allowed us to keep that in mind and act upon that.  Obviously you can't always be around whenever DL is, but its not hard at all to let us know that since we know when DL is 48 hours in advance.  At worst, emergencies will come up and that's fine, but that didn't happen to you.  Otherwise, scum can be "around" at DL, but not post so they don't have to contribute to town trains like the Hally one, and look better.

 

3. This is the worst of your 3 points by far, and an incredibly shallow perspective from someone I remember making some incredibly complex setups and crazy mafia games and its pinging me hard.  I've already explained how by no killing, scum would have a higher expected townies dead till next free day than if they killed.  In simpler terms, they wouldn't need to shoot Adella because town would lynch Adella for them, and then they could use the kill the night after.  So same number of night kills in that period, but they were able to waste a whole day for town and get an extra dead townie.

[DPR]

Holy crap, I was expecting like ten pages of stuff to catch up on when I got back, but then there's this... I'm pretty sure the deadline is in like two hours, which is when I'll be taking a final. So I'll [v]Sooh[/v]. I said she'd have a chance to convince me my initial read was wrong, but this isn't a convincing action. 

 

 

@Ironeyes sure, but reasons were already given to why Hallia was scum you were piling on more reasons. One such reason was: if she flips town it's still good for town is not compelling it doesn't make much sense to me. I am paraphrasing of course it was more along the lines of if hallia is lynched we get to know nyn alignment, so what is nyns alignment Ironeyes? To me it looks like setting up mislynches. #foundscum

[v] Ironeyes [/v]

How much experience do you have playing this game? I ask because this is the kind of post I expect from someone with three games or less under their belt. You are misrepresenting what I said: I never claimed we would "know" Nyn's alignment. I said I would lean a certain way based on the flip. Therefore, my read on Nyn became closer to scum because Hallia was town. It would have gone the opposite way if Hallia had been scum. 

 

Also. I don't set up mislynches as scum. Ask anyone who's ever played with me. Or look in my sig for a summary of my meta, courtesy of Chris. I'm more interested in self-preservation as scum and will try to be everyone's friend. Going out on a limb to say something I know people aren't going to like is more in line with my town game. 

 

 

Marsh (think it was you ) when you voted hallia you said you've seen her tune out as scum before, how much experience do you have with town/mafia Hallia?

I've played at least two games with her as each in the last year or so. Unfortunately my memory for game titles is awful so I'd have to do some research to tell you which ones. 

 

 

I agree with the coasting part of your description (said it myself above) but I disagree about the not setting up mislynches part as any scum member is depended on to get townies lynched, and the only way you could avoid doing that is by not voting at all. So really, you're just parsing out different levels of subtlety. 

 

I also disagree with your assessment of SK - I was thinking that he's(?) played quite a bit based on his observations. He'll have to answer that, but I'm certiain we're talking more than three games. 

[Ironeyes]

 

Holy crap, I was expecting like ten pages of stuff to catch up on when I got back, but then there's this... I'm pretty sure the deadline is in like two hours, which is when I'll be taking a final. So I'll [v]Sooh[/v]. I said she'd have a chance to convince me my initial read was wrong, but this isn't a convincing action. 

 

 

@Ironeyes sure, but reasons were already given to why Hallia was scum you were piling on more reasons. One such reason was: if she flips town it's still good for town is not compelling it doesn't make much sense to me. I am paraphrasing of course it was more along the lines of if hallia is lynched we get to know nyn alignment, so what is nyns alignment Ironeyes? To me it looks like setting up mislynches. #foundscum

[v] Ironeyes [/v]

How much experience do you have playing this game? I ask because this is the kind of post I expect from someone with three games or less under their belt. You are misrepresenting what I said: I never claimed we would "know" Nyn's alignment. I said I would lean a certain way based on the flip. Therefore, my read on Nyn became closer to scum because Hallia was town. It would have gone the opposite way if Hallia had been scum. 

 

Also. I don't set up mislynches as scum. Ask anyone who's ever played with me. Or look in my sig for a summary of my meta, courtesy of Chris. I'm more interested in self-preservation as scum and will try to be everyone's friend. Going out on a limb to say something I know people aren't going to like is more in line with my town game. 

 

 

Marsh (think it was you ) when you voted hallia you said you've seen her tune out as scum before, how much experience do you have with town/mafia Hallia?

I've played at least two games with her as each in the last year or so. Unfortunately my memory for game titles is awful so I'd have to do some research to tell you which ones. 

 

 

I agree with the coasting part of your description (said it myself above) but I disagree about the not setting up mislynches part as any scum member is depended on to get townies lynched, and the only way you could avoid doing that is by not voting at all. So really, you're just parsing out different levels of subtlety. 

 

I also disagree with your assessment of SK - I was thinking that he's(?) played quite a bit based on his observations. He'll have to answer that, but I'm certiain we're talking more than three games. 

The thing is, I usually work toward my wincon by throwing support behind town-driven mislynches. I don't try to hint and manipulate the town the way some power scum players will, I just take what opportunities they give me. That's the difference I'm trying to point out. 

 

The thing is, SK took a point Nyn already made (and I already responded to) and acted like it's a revelation. That seems n00b-ish to me. 

[DPR]

 

 

 

Reads & Reasons Why Players Might be Scum

by

Me

 

...

 

1. Verbal32 - Found it odd he didn't vote D1. Very unhelpful in terms of creating a record to stand on.

2. Ironeyes - Didn't love his reversal on Rand.

 

3. DreadPirateRoberts - Towniest Townie that ever Towned. 

 

4. Clovdyx - Made some good points so far. 

 

5. Gentled Ben - Playing the newbie card up a more than I'd like to see. Terrible instincts?

 

6. LedZepMan - Town Vanilla

 

7. Shitsure Kamimashita - Started game as an active solver. Slowly faded into background after the fingers started pointing.

 

8. Adella - Town 1x Vigilante

 

9. Nynaeve - Felt okay about her until last night. But, her unnecessary personal attacks and lack of game solving points looks bad.

 

10. Sooh - Hasn't really struck me one way or another. She has been open about not enjoying playing as scum before, but she was more stressed about it then. Null.

 

11. Hallia - Town Vanilla

 

12. RandA lThor - Strongest scum read. I don't buy anything he's selling. I've made mutltiple points, and as those are stacking up. Along with yesterday's points, his fit at EoD felt contrived, as did his profanity "slip" and faux outrage. His logic regarding scum skipping the NK is just a disaster. 

 

[v] Rand [/v]

 

 

Aight lets do this for fun.  Besides it being suspicious that I didn't remember how the CoC worked and that I have a problem with unconsciously swearing, what other "multiple points" do you have against me?  I see that you said fit at EoD and faux outrage (though I'm assuming the second is connected to the swearing thing), but what fit at EoD are you talking about?  And my logic regarding scum skipping the NK is a disaster, yet you took 0 time to even argue against it?  Why wouldn't scum skip their NK?

 

 

 

Here ya go pumpkin:

 

1. You joined this PG-13 site when you were about 13, right? And stayed and played mafia for several years, right? Been my experience that everyone is aware of the PG-13 rule - it gets highlighted at least once per game and DM is somewhat unique (at least on the boards I've been on) with that rule. 

 

But you "forgot" it.

 

Okay. 

 

Magically, you have an amazing memory concerning player's habits. That means you forgot DM had a language code, but you remembered smallish details about Verbal and others. 

 

Okay...

 

But then you push it with swearing again on thread, because once again, you just keep forgetting that darn PG-13 rule? And you call it "unconscious swearing", which implies that this happens frequently? It's not game related per say, but I am curious, do you "unconsciously swear" often? Like, in a thesis paper... "The Impact of The F***ing Visigoths During the F***ing Migration Period by Rand F***ing AlThor". Or is it more casual? "Dear Mom & Dad, having a great f***ing time at school! Love, Rand"

 

Thing is, swears convey emotional attachment. That's why people use them. And by conveying emotional attachment in this game, you accomplish a couple of things: you create an air of believability and earnestness and you also to raise the stakes in attacks on your points - kind of like "you don't want to go there with me".

 

These make excellent places for scum to hide. That's what I think you're probably doing. Or, alternatively, we've discovered that you have Tourretet's Syndrome and now you can begin recovery, saving you years of embarrassment on job applications and rsvp's. Win-win.

 

2. And that's where the faux outrage and rahrahrah observations feed in. You notice how you're the only one talking about being around at DL? It's because it's not realistic for everyone to be there, so they just vote. Everybody knows this, so you making a big deal out of people not being around and trying to rally at the end is very likely an attempt to appear super duper townish.

 

You like to use emotion to influence people's opinion of you. It's a decent technique - it's effective as long as nobody pokes holes in the logic of it.

 

So far I've pointed out the possibility that you're using this technique. Your responses to my suss lead me to believe I'm right because a player that wasn't doing it would respond with "whatevs" and not worry about it. You flinched. 

 

3. As for your logic disastrophe, there is no scenario where scum skips their NK on N1. It's a time-bomb setup... they have to knock off as many townies as possible as soon as possible to win. 

 

Anyone looking for a creative way for scum to skip a NK is most likely scum - nobody else would have reason to think like that. 

 

That's why I took 0 time to talk about, and neither did anyone else. 

 

We good now?

 

 

This is a much more fleshed out and formulated argument, thanks

 

1. I've definitely changed a lot since I played here, and one of those ways is that I swear a lot more than when I was here.  And like I have to keep saying over and over again, **I did not forget the rule**, I just forgot how strictly it was enforced and what was OK and not OK.  Also, its much easier to remember someone's personality than change the way that I've been talking for a few years.  No lol, I don't have Tourrette's, but I've also accidentally sworn at family reunions, and uncountable times in front of my parents, fwiw.  It's become part of my casual vocabulary which I don't think is some incredible thing, its fairly common to slip up.  I see what you're saying with the whole "air of believability thing" but that argument doesn't really make sense when you think about it more.  Both town and scum have "earnest" moments in the game where they're trying incredibly hard to do something and will seem very determined.  The opposite is true where both scum and town can seem lazy or uninterested.  Its more of a null tell than a way to separate scum/town.

 

2. When I mentioned my DL thing, there were also others who agreed with me, so its not like it was just me.  And also, like I mentioned before, the thing wasn't just being around at DL.  LZM wasn't around and I was fine with that.  He also mentioned that he wouldn't be there at DL, which allowed us to keep that in mind and act upon that.  Obviously you can't always be around whenever DL is, but its not hard at all to let us know that since we know when DL is 48 hours in advance.  At worst, emergencies will come up and that's fine, but that didn't happen to you.  Otherwise, scum can be "around" at DL, but not post so they don't have to contribute to town trains like the Hally one, and look better.

 

3. This is the worst of your 3 points by far, and an incredibly shallow perspective from someone I remember making some incredibly complex setups and crazy mafia games and its pinging me hard.  I've already explained how by no killing, scum would have a higher expected townies dead till next free day than if they killed.  In simpler terms, they wouldn't need to shoot Adella because town would lynch Adella for them, and then they could use the kill the night after.  So same number of night kills in that period, but they were able to waste a whole day for town and get an extra dead townie.

 

 

Okay, forget 1 & 2 for now...

 

Explain again how scum skipping a NK equals the "same number of night kills in that period". Hold my hand like I'm a small child and walk me through this?

[DPR]

 

 

Holy crap, I was expecting like ten pages of stuff to catch up on when I got back, but then there's this... I'm pretty sure the deadline is in like two hours, which is when I'll be taking a final. So I'll [v]Sooh[/v]. I said she'd have a chance to convince me my initial read was wrong, but this isn't a convincing action. 

 

 

@Ironeyes sure, but reasons were already given to why Hallia was scum you were piling on more reasons. One such reason was: if she flips town it's still good for town is not compelling it doesn't make much sense to me. I am paraphrasing of course it was more along the lines of if hallia is lynched we get to know nyn alignment, so what is nyns alignment Ironeyes? To me it looks like setting up mislynches. #foundscum

[v] Ironeyes [/v]

How much experience do you have playing this game? I ask because this is the kind of post I expect from someone with three games or less under their belt. You are misrepresenting what I said: I never claimed we would "know" Nyn's alignment. I said I would lean a certain way based on the flip. Therefore, my read on Nyn became closer to scum because Hallia was town. It would have gone the opposite way if Hallia had been scum. 

 

Also. I don't set up mislynches as scum. Ask anyone who's ever played with me. Or look in my sig for a summary of my meta, courtesy of Chris. I'm more interested in self-preservation as scum and will try to be everyone's friend. Going out on a limb to say something I know people aren't going to like is more in line with my town game. 

 

 

Marsh (think it was you ) when you voted hallia you said you've seen her tune out as scum before, how much experience do you have with town/mafia Hallia?

I've played at least two games with her as each in the last year or so. Unfortunately my memory for game titles is awful so I'd have to do some research to tell you which ones. 

 

 

I agree with the coasting part of your description (said it myself above) but I disagree about the not setting up mislynches part as any scum member is depended on to get townies lynched, and the only way you could avoid doing that is by not voting at all. So really, you're just parsing out different levels of subtlety. 

 

I also disagree with your assessment of SK - I was thinking that he's(?) played quite a bit based on his observations. He'll have to answer that, but I'm certiain we're talking more than three games. 

The thing is, I usually work toward my wincon by throwing support behind town-driven mislynches. I don't try to hint and manipulate the town the way some power scum players will, I just take what opportunities they give me. That's the difference I'm trying to point out. 

 

The thing is, SK took a point Nyn already made (and I already responded to) and acted like it's a revelation. That seems n00b-ish to me. 

 

 

Okay, I've seen you be nice and subtle before - you and dice did a great job of that a few games ago. And I think that's the point here - anyone could imply if it's X vs. Y and both call each other scum, if X is town, Y must = scum. But the idea here is that it was an emotionally laden argument to begin with. Nyn is obviously testy this game, so the possibility of it being town on town violence is high, especially in light of the entire thing being based on past meta and D1 assumptions (vs. actual evidence).

 

I think reading between the lines vs. being obtuse is what is being discussed here, which I feel like plays a bit more into "be everybody's friend" scum meta than not.

[BFG]

Sooh (tldr ISO)

 

I actually liked the early vote on Verb, I know it's 'just' RVS and means little, but it's an early indication of being relaxed in thread, there's a tonal contrast with how she reacts to Verb later. There isn't a huge amount after, scum read on Adella, town read on LZM, Nyn and Verb, null on Hallia. she was around for end of Day 1, but didn't move her vote off a claimed vig. And then there's the vig claim discussion and 'don't shoot me' all of which is pretty much null (or at least I'm reading from two possible opposite perspectives ). Hasn't posted Day 2

 

Would ~guess that Soon/Rand aren't teamed based on the end of day posting thing and Nyn looks good in some of the quoted posts

 

Sooh hasn't posted anything that's made me feel bad, but I dislike the surface level thoughts she's showing. The switch on Verb who she'd been reacting badly to to a town read comes from nowhere and is for??? resons (unless he posted lots of stuff I haven't read in between )

 

Could vote here

[BFG]

 

 

For the sake of consolidation and self preservation, I'm willing to look at Marsh and Sooh for the lynch.

 

Marsh because I've seen him coast as scum before and because his reversal on Rand feels like coasting to me, along with the fact that he hasn't taken a hard side on anything.

 

Sooh because she hasn't pinged me at all - and that's because she also dod not take sides on anything.

 

The Clov slot should be resolved by BFG, so I'm fine with letting her play that out. Nyn and Verb should move toward resolution for me today with their votes and comments.

Can you elaborate on what you meant when you said that Sooh seems less stressed this game then when you've seen her as scum before(?) what's changed between having her null and now?

I don't think I've seen anything from Sooh that's given me a read on her

 

I've made multiple remarks about Sooh's posts not ringing any alarms with me, and I probably need to put that into context: I prefer to look at each player as if they were scum, especially during the early days ( 1 & 2 mostly ). Then I like to apply the "can I see it played it that way as town" filter. It ruffles feathers, I know, but it's bene more productive for me than the style some players have adopted by naming others as town, especially on D1.

 

Okay, as it pertains to Sooh...

 

The games I've played with her, she has been vocal about not enjoying the scum role. She's also been edgy, sometimes snappy, and somewhat disagreeable. This game, she has seemed fairly calm.

 

Having said that, I've also noted that she hasn't really contributed anything, which is a very bad sign for her because she is also analytical and raises good points when she is game solving.

 

Does all of that make sense?

Thanks that does make sense :)