The Mafia Parable: Basic Game OVER

[RandA lThor]

 

 

notice that she wasn't bothered by me or breathed a word on me up until I started pushing her.

I FEEL this is incorrect, but I'm on my phone with a needle in my vein. I'll try toremember to check when i get home

 

 

Nyn was right.  I was wrong.  Hallia didn't mention her until earlier this afternoon when she discussed Nyn's town.

 

 

 

Do you mean when she discussed Nyn's scum?  But yeah, solidifies my feeling on how Hally's vote felt like an OMGUS

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

@ben and @hallia who are your top scumspect if any?

Adella and Hallia, but that might change as I continue to catch up or by end of day. Nothing strong from either one, anyway. Strongest feel right now is Verbal as town, but I'm trying to stay fluid in all of my reads.

The way she and I have interacted, I don't see how you say we're a team, please explain

You don't have to be in lockstep in order to be team. In fact, the last game I played, the mafia did not openly cooperate at all, even casting suspicion on each other, and in the first game, sticking up for one of the wolves helped get the other wolf lynched, so I would assume that if you are mafia, you are going to try to disguise who your teammates are. My read is based more on gut feeling along with the way the two of you have tried hard to distance yourselves and not look like a team after you both jumped on the fence when Verbal poked me.

[Clovdyx]

 

Do you mean when she discussed Nyn's scum?  But yeah, solidifies my feeling on how Hally's vote felt like an OMGUS

 

 

Yeah, earlier when she was saying that Nyn's tone was in keeping with how she acts as scum.

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

Lol, I still remember when i was a newb and DPR was the mafia god who never had time to play with us, so I have these high expectations from him :P

 

Apparently old age has gotten to him.  Remember how Myndrunner used to come in, say a bunch of random stuff, and then sit back like it was some divine proclamation of greatness?

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah.....I think Mynd & DPR are related.

 

 

btw I love both guys and think they are both great mafia players, but ffs they can drive a person mad with how little sense they make sometimes, lol

 

Yessss, Mynd def did that, lolol good times.  Does he still play here?

 

So, something I've been thinking about.  With this setup, town can essentially win in one night if the vigs don't crossfire and all hit scum.  While that is not likely, especially N1, I'd like to submit the POTENTIAL IDEA that maybe if a vig plans on taking a shot on any given night, they call it out as to not cross shots with another vig.

 

Just a thought, and not something I'm saying we need to do......but I'd like to discuss the potential pitfalls and merits.

 

I don't like this idea at the beginning, because I think it hurts us down the road.  Sure it'll be great in the beginning when we have a vig claim and shoot someone, and tell us who, and they get confirmed after the night, but mafia'll just kill them and then we start running out of "confirmed" vigs.  I think we should wait to use our 3 shots until its more necessary and we have more information on who we should use the shots on.  I do think that we should have an unofficial vote for who we should vig shot when we get to that point though.

 

 

So, something I've been thinking about. With this setup, town can essentially win in one night if the vigs don't crossfire and all hit scum. While that is not likely, especially N1, I'd like to submit the POTENTIAL IDEA that maybe if a vig plans on taking a shot on any given night, they call it out as to not cross shots with another vig.

Just a thought, and not something I'm saying we need to do......but I'd like to discuss the potential pitfalls and merits.

 

That's an awesome way to get the Vigs killed or for mafia to cover their tracks by claiming vig.

Agreed with this as well, and damn stop making good points like this pls so my read on you isn't confused, kthxbye.

 

 

So, something I've been thinking about. With this setup, town can essentially win in one night if the vigs don't crossfire and all hit scum. While that is not likely, especially N1, I'd like to submit the POTENTIAL IDEA that maybe if a vig plans on taking a shot on any given night, they call it out as to not cross shots with another vig.

Just a thought, and not something I'm saying we need to do......but I'd like to discuss the potential pitfalls and merits.

 

Crossfire is good if one's wrong, though.

This is also a good point, though in theory, wasting one of our shots is never a good idea, though it can have good consequences.  I like Verb's idea of trying to conserve shots, but I think that's only something we should worry about if we think its a problem in the current situation.

 

 

 

So, something I've been thinking about. With this setup, town can essentially win in one night if the vigs don't crossfire and all hit scum. While that is not likely, especially N1, I'd like to submit the POTENTIAL IDEA that maybe if a vig plans on taking a shot on any given night, they call it out as to not cross shots with another vig.

Just a thought, and not something I'm saying we need to do......but I'd like to discuss the potential pitfalls and merits.

 

That's an awesome way to get the Vigs killed or for mafia to cover their tracks by claiming vig.

 

 

It's also an awesome way to out all of the Vig's for NK's and waste shots.

 

Prolly better if we wait past D1 and try to narrow down that pool just a little.

Agreed here as well.

 

 

 

Honestly LZM, you're playing consistent with how you've played lately, so I think this tunnel on me is probably an indication that you're town. I just want to point out that I don't think any of your tunnels have worked well for you lately, so please try to keep an open mind throughout this game. Something someone says can ping you one way or another, but we need to look at the big picture and players as a whole.

Personally, I'm much quicker to name someone town than I am scum, considering only 25% of the players are scum, it's my favorite part of the new playstyle.

However, if I had to choose, right now I would say scum is likely Sooh, because of her very strong reactions. Hallia, for the reasons others have pointed out, she hasn't posted any of her own thoughts but has been around quite a bit. And I'm thinking Rand for the third, but that honestly is a bit tainted by some OMGUS. It can't be that tainted though, cause LZM doesn't seem scummy for voting for me. I think it's how he is claiming Hallia has had more content than I have,even though she and I have talked about the same things and my thoughts are much more detailed and fleshed out, I have answered questions, and even repeated myself to some who seemed to ask questions that I have already explained, in the interest of being open and honest a town.

 

The bolded

Nyn has said that. Not me.

Sorry, that bit you bolded was actually about Rand not you.

Did I really say that?  If so, I believe I've corrected myself, I did say I appreciated the way you were giving explanations for your actions.

 

Page 18, I actually like Rand's posts here

 

Unvote

 

Aww thanks, unfortunately I can't say I have a town read on you as of right now :/ Pls post more haha, and Adella kinda does have a point, some more substance from you would be nice

 

Anyone else care that after a long hiatus, Rand has switched to town clearing vs. scum hunting?

 

Iirc, and since I'm talking about myself I feel like I do haha, but I did this a lot in previous games too, where I'd have town reads, scum reads, and null reads.  I actually remember making lists that did a ranking order from most townie to most scummy (actually something I was going to do when I got the time)

 

 

@ben and @hallia who are your top scumspect if any?

 

At the moment I'd say - 

 

Nyn is.  Because I've played many games with her, and her tone is dead on her scum one where's she is largely facetious, and kinda snappy.  When she's town she tends to be more serious irt game play.  That's my gut feels atm.

Hally, this really does look like OMGUS.  Iirc Nyn correctly, this is fairly standard to her personality regardless of alignment.  And its not like she hasn't made game contributions as well.

 

 

Anyone else care that after a long hiatus, Rand has switched to town clearing vs. scum hunting?

 

 

 

To be honest, I think I like his newer posting.

Aww thanks haha, I think lol, but wait but I'm honestly curious, what have I changed?

 

 

 

 

Caught up, or at least read up. Massive head ache this morning.

Still not liking Adella's posting, and her explaining better than Hallia is only a very minor point in her favor I feel, because I think she would be good at explaining herself even as scum.

Feeling pretty good about LZM and Nyn so far. Probably also Verb. Neutral on pretty much everyone else, though I will say that that mess which was a DPR post above here in blue is making me think he's towny.

 

Unfortunately this makes me feel even less good about Sooh. I want you to be town so bad! Idk if that is happening here...

 

Felt the same way. TownSooh provides teh reasons, no? 

 

 

 

So, something I've been thinking about. With this setup, town can essentially win in one night if the vigs don't crossfire and all hit scum. While that is not likely, especially N1, I'd like to submit the POTENTIAL IDEA that maybe if a vig plans on taking a shot on any given night, they call it out as to not cross shots with another vig.

Just a thought, and not something I'm saying we need to do......but I'd like to discuss the potential pitfalls and merits.

 

That's an awesome way to get the Vigs killed or for mafia to cover their tracks by claiming vig.

 

Once a vig shoots, they are VT anyway.  I'm saying call your shots so we don't have vig #1 and vig #2 both shooting the same person.  If that person was mafia, then we wasted a vig shot.  If there were 2 townies, then I'd agree calling the shot was a bad idea as we then effectively save a townie by allowing a vig to make a mistake and not get penalized for it.

 

C'mon folks, look deeper into the idea.

 

Remember how you almost lost last game for Town? Yeah, let's not do a mass Vig reveal on D1. Kthanx.

 

Please read the posts, Wes.  You're harping on INCORRECT INFORMATION.  Good God I even bolded it for you.  Like, I know you want to just tunnel on me and refute every post I make, but please just read posts before firing back.  I said "if a vig plans on taking a shot, call your shot so other vigs don't cross-fire".

 

I then asked for discussion on the pros and cons - I did not say we should do this.  Again, I spelled that out as well.

 

At this point, your entire premise this game is borderline absurd.  Stop cherry picking what you want out of my posts and read the whole damn thing.  And last game?  You, a VT, tunneled on my Miller claim all game.  Town believed me, you didn't, and you made it a distraction the entire time......so much so that we needed to lynch you just to stop the madness.  Then Nyn and I proceeded to just win the game.

Initially I was going to call you out here on being too reactionary because all DPR did was discuss it, but I can see how his last comment you quoted here comes off more as don't be dumb why'd you suggest this instead of normal discussion about it.

 

That being said, I think most of us agree that it wouldn't be the best idea, especially not right now.

 

If there are out of game "things" going on, let's not bring them into this game.  I love you all, and want us to get along and have a fun time shooting each other in the face, lol.

 

This message is for everybody.

 

 

 

Friendly reminder: This is a game for the most sadistic bloodthirsty animals on this forum, so no mercy.

Also a friendly reminder: This is a game so have fun, and play nice. Seriously, be kind to one another.

Glgl

 

 <3 both of you guys, 100% agreed

 

Not gonna lie Rand, that post is hard to read on mobile

 

 

:/ Sorry, do the colors not show up well? I rarely browse DM from mobile, especially when its mafia related.

I can't find the options to bold or change color on my phone like I can on my pc, so I will have to post this whole glob and just respond to the part where Rand suggests waiting past the first night to vig, like I think DPR or LZM also suggested. However, like Rand, I think it would still be good to coordinate it when it happens, so I quoted this whole mess to agree without highlighting what I was agreeing with. That's what vacations in the wilderness are for--roughing it. :)

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

@ben and @hallia who are your top scumspect if any?

Adella and Hallia, but that might change as I continue to catch up or by end of day. Nothing strong from either one, anyway. Strongest feel right now is Verbal as town, but I'm trying to stay fluid in all of my reads.

The way she and I have interacted, I don't see how you say we're a team, please explain

You don't have to be in lockstep in order to be team. In fact, the last game I played, the mafia did not openly cooperate at all, even casting suspicion on each other, and in the first game, sticking up for one of the wolves helped get the other wolf lynched, so I would assume that if you are mafia, you are going to try to disguise who your teammates are. My read is based more on gut feeling along with the way the two of you have tried hard to distance yourselves and not look like a team after you both jumped on the fence when Verbal poked me.

 

 

Show me what you mean by this?

[Gentled Ben]

Also, fwiw, I think Verbal is right about the vig shot claiming. Yes, mafia CAN claim their NK and try to pass it off as a vig...at the expense of potentially outing themselves and taking a suboptimal nk.

What do you mean? The mafia only get one kill per night, right? So if two people die, or, three, or four, they can only still kill one, so the other is a big. It's not like they're gonna say, "Right, we vigged Ben. That wasn't our night kill," or am I totally misunderstanding what you mean by passing their no off as a vig?

[Gentled Ben]

NK, not "no."

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

 

 

@ben and @hallia who are your top scumspect if any?

 

Adella and Hallia, but that might change as I continue to catch up or by end of day. Nothing strong from either one, anyway. Strongest feel right now is Verbal as town, but I'm trying to stay fluid in all of my reads.

The way she and I have interacted, I don't see how you say we're a team, please explain

You don't have to be in lockstep in order to be team. In fact, the last game I played, the mafia did not openly cooperate at all, even casting suspicion on each other, and in the first game, sticking up for one of the wolves helped get the other wolf lynched, so I would assume that if you are mafia, you are going to try to disguise who your teammates are. My read is based more on gut feeling along with the way the two of you have tried hard to distance yourselves and not look like a team after you both jumped on the fence when Verbal poked me.

 

Show me what you mean by this?

It would be easier to tell you than show you on my phone. I'm sure it was in the first ten pages. Nyn said something about killing, and I said something about her only killing townies, and Verb asked how I knew he was a townie, and Hallia said, "Oh, snap!" And Adela made popcorn, which seemed like a passive way for them to egg on the conversation, which other people pointed out to them, and since then, they seem to have tried hard not to look like they agree on things.

[Gentled Ben]

Someone called it jumping on the fence, and so that is the term I used.

[Clovdyx]

 

Also, fwiw, I think Verbal is right about the vig shot claiming. Yes, mafia CAN claim their NK and try to pass it off as a vig...at the expense of potentially outing themselves and taking a suboptimal nk.

What do you mean? The mafia only get one kill per night, right? So if two people die, or, three, or four, they can only still kill one, so the other is a big. It's not like they're gonna say, "Right, we vigged Ben. That wasn't our night kill," or am I totally misunderstanding what you mean by passing their no off as a vig?

 

 

One of the counterarguments against claiming the kills (especially in advance, but really any time) is that mafia could claim vig and use their NK to sell it.  Essentially, mafia says, "I'm a vig and I'm shooting X tonight".  That player then dies.  Whichever of the mafia made the post then has credibility as one of the vig roles.

 

 

The problem is, we know exactly how many there are.  If four people claim vig, and four people die, we know ONE of the four are mafia.  If one of the shots hits mafia, you can remove THAT player from the pool.  Now you have a guaranteed mafia in 3 slots (or less, if another mafia died as well). 

[Clovdyx]

It would be easier to tell you than show you on my phone. I'm sure it was in the first ten pages. Nyn said something about killing, and I said something about her only killing townies, and Verb asked how I knew he was a townie, and Hallia said, "Oh, snap!" And Adela made popcorn, which seemed like a passive way for them to egg on the conversation, which other people pointed out to them, and since then, they seem to have tried hard not to look like they agree on things.

 

 

I think I was getting hung up on your verbiage.  Typically if someone is accused of "being on the fence", it means they're refusing to take a side/playing both.

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

 

As many times as we have been Hydra together, I'm confident in my read.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and if you're town? Then you have clearly learned nothing via hydraing with me.

I believe I am, so we're at an impasse. I have every idea of what I'm talking about.

 

Keep spinning. Atp I don't even care what your alignment is, cause I'd be happy to see you out of the game either way.

Do we have townies to spare? If you don't think she's a wolf, don't lynch her just because you aren't having fun playing with her. It isn't fair to the rest of us, even if that's telling you what to do.

[Gentled Ben]

 

Do you mean when she discussed Nyn's scum?  But yeah, solidifies my feeling on how Hally's vote felt like an OMGUS

 

 

Yeah, earlier when she was saying that Nyn's tone was in keeping with how she acts as scum.

I've only played with Nyn once, but she was like this in that game, kind of snapping at some of the players, and she was town. I know that's only meta of one game, but I only have what I have to go off of, you know?

[Gentled Ben]

 

 

Also, fwiw, I think Verbal is right about the vig shot claiming. Yes, mafia CAN claim their NK and try to pass it off as a vig...at the expense of potentially outing themselves and taking a suboptimal nk.

 

What do you mean? The mafia only get one kill per night, right? So if two people die, or, three, or four, they can only still kill one, so the other is a big. It's not like they're gonna say, "Right, we vigged Ben. That wasn't our night kill," or am I totally misunderstanding what you mean by passing their no off as a vig?

So at best, it can work out kind of like a caroler? Except that hopefully, we got some wolves with those shots.

 

One of the counterarguments against claiming the kills (especially in advance, but really any time) is that mafia could claim vig and use their NK to sell it.  Essentially, mafia says, "I'm a vig and I'm shooting X tonight".  That player then dies.  Whichever of the mafia made the post then has credibility as one of the vig roles.

 

 

The problem is, we know exactly how many there are.  If four people claim vig, and four people die, we know ONE of the four are mafia.  If one of the shots hits mafia, you can remove THAT player from the pool.  Now you have a guaranteed mafia in 3 slots (or less, if another mafia died as well).

[Hallia]

I'm not looking at how she's talking to me, because that goes beyond game play. It's her interaction with others that I see as scum. she will vote me because of non game related things, and so I will not interact with her further. I will judge how he interacts with y'all, and it seems scummy to me.

[Gentled Ben]

No clue how I stuck my reply inside your quote. Maybe it's these fat trolloc fingers typing on a phone.

[Gentled Ben]

 

It would be easier to tell you than show you on my phone. I'm sure it was in the first ten pages. Nyn said something about killing, and I said something about her only killing townies, and Verb asked how I knew he was a townie, and Hallia said, "Oh, snap!" And Adela made popcorn, which seemed like a passive way for them to egg on the conversation, which other people pointed out to them, and since then, they seem to have tried hard not to look like they agree on things.

 

 

I think I was getting hung up on your verbiage.  Typically if someone is accused of "being on the fence", it means they're refusing to take a side/playing both.

Oh, okay. I'm still learning the lingo. I know some things, like lovers and carolers and vigilantes and safe claims because my two games had those, but lots of other stuff is still a puzzle to me.

[Gentled Ben]

I'm not looking at how she's talking to me, because that goes beyond game play. It's her interaction with others that I see as scum. she will vote me because of non game related things, and so I will not interact with her further. I will judge how he interacts with y'all, and it seems scummy to me.

Who, Nyn?

[Adella]

 

 

 

DPR - I don't understand how your point about Rand is scummy at all. I've played with the guy, so it's not like he hasn't been around for a decade, and even if he had...so what?

To keep everything in context, It's D1 and I don't think anyone is claiming to be certain about anything at this point.

 

Rand pinged me with his chat - it struck me as having a nervous tone and I didn't buy his claim that he forgot DM's rules. Just seemed like a weird thing to say, like scum trying to fit in, so I mentioned it.

 

At this point, he's in my top 3 for scum. We'll see what happens when the info starts coming in.

I meant town clearing vs. Scum hunting. Speaking personally, I don't see how someone can do one and not yhe other, but that's a dead horse atp... I just don't see it meaning anything for his alignment

 

Does it make sense when I describe a distinct difference in the way the game sed to be played vs. now? Ed mentioned it, Tigs mentioned it and maybe Adella? So I found it possible odd that Rand came back and didn't mention it.

I did also mention it... In fact this is my first game that I haven't complained about it (so far) lol.

[LedZepMan]

I mentioned it too.

[Ironeyes]

Boy, what a long day. And it isn't even over. I have about twenty minutes here, so I'll read as fast as I can. Still back on page 15 tho

 

 

 

 

[v]Ironeyes[/v] cuz I can and I am still on page 1

Sup Led! Seems like a while since I played with you

Howdy. How's Bahston treating you

I'm kinda missing it tbh. Spent the summer in Utah. 

[Gentled Ben]

Boy, what a long day. And it isn't even over. I have about twenty minutes here, so I'll read as fast as I can. Still back on page 15 tho

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Ironeyes[/v] cuz I can and I am still on page 1

 

Sup Led! Seems like a while since I played with you

Howdy. How's Bahston treating you

I'm kinda missing it tbh. Spent the summer in Utah.

Utah is beautiful

[Ironeyes]

Utah is very beautiful, and I'm glad I got the chance to spend some time here. I finally visited Mount Timpanogus for the first time this morning, hence why I'm exhausted. 

[Ironeyes]

 

 

I'm not quoting that cuz I cant trim, but here's the basics.

The town read on Verb is my gut. There is no empirical evidence I can provide you on paper (or screen) to support this. I like how he handled himself calling out the three who voted him so fast. It's what I'd have done.

And you expect better from me? I'm a minor leagues man at best. Im wrong so much that I should do the exact opposite of what my brain says.

Honestly this is why I am not surprised that somehow I am your top scum lean and you are so sure about me being scum.

I dunno. The guy who was making the case about you and Halliia jumping in on Verb asking how I knew he was town (which I still don't know), and then Hallia seeming to distance herself from you is a little convincing. Not much, but a little. It's about the most I see to go on so far, anyway.

 

I feel like no one is standing out as scum right now, but there are some tenuous attempts to throw subs on people, like the Adele/Hallia team theory, early pickings on Rand over the DM swearing policy, and Verbal's shot at me for joking with Nyn about killing towns, but no glaring scum reads.

 

Verbal looks like he's trying the hardest to root out scum, so he gets a town lean from me. Rand is trying too, so he gets a small town lean, and everyone else seems pretty neutral. Soon looked suspicious early on for her Adele. OTR and then taking awhile to address it, plus being snippy and snarky (her words) which might be an attempt to keep people away from her, but it's D1, and we're not even halfwY to deadline, so I think I have time to develop better reads.

 

There is actually decent wifi at the campsite itself, so I can play at night (its night for me now), but I am tired after driving 8 hours and setting up camp, so I don't know how late I'll stay up tonight. At least I got caught up. :)

 

Something about this posts bugs me, but I can't quite figure out what. I'll come back to it later. 

 

Where's leelou when im in the mood for a spanish off lol

Hey, I'll spanish off any day of the week. Es un idioma hermosa y lo quiero mucho, más que nada por las personas a quienes conocí cuando era misionero. Sin haber aprendido español, no habría conocido a tantas lindas personas. 

[Ironeyes]

So, something I've been thinking about.  With this setup, town can essentially win in one night if the vigs don't crossfire and all hit scum.  While that is not likely, especially N1, I'd like to submit the POTENTIAL IDEA that maybe if a vig plans on taking a shot on any given night, they call it out as to not cross shots with another vig.

 

Just a thought, and not something I'm saying we need to do......but I'd like to discuss the potential pitfalls and merits.

With the open set up and nobody to mess with the kills, this might work. But my immediate concern is that mafia can just call their shot, shoot someone "scummy," and try to get passed off as a vig. Sure, they lose some ML potential in the process, but it's a decent trade-off. And I'll echo the statement about being happy to discuss the idea. 

 

I'm up to page 20 but have to leave again. Be back as soon as I can.