[Basic] Peg + Cat Mafia -- TOWN WIN

[ed2funy]

Ok found it.

 

Uhhh, Alex said Spades' tone is bad?  What?  No.

 

 

Ed sounding good itt.

 

 

 

Uhhh, Alex said Spades' tone is bad? What? No.

 

 

Ed sounding good itt.

What does that last part mean Hallia? Does he not sound as good in the Qt? Is that a slip?

 

 

I have seen people us itt (in this thread) a bazillion times - So for clarification Eldrick - I don't see how this can be misconstrued as something scummy.

 

Pretty sure Eldrick's concern was related to your response after.

[ed2funy]

oooo, Spades is still upset I voted her first and would probably again. 

 

*continues reading* 

[Spadeszee]

oooo, Spades is still upset I voted her first and would probably again. 

 

*continues reading* 

I'm more concerned that you haven't really been problem solving or leaving reads on really anyone. I'm not the only one who's noticed this.

[Shad_]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Hallia (1) - Eldrick

 

Eldrick (1) - Adella

 

Not Voting: Darthe, Songstress, Spadeszee, LedZepMan, Tigraine, Ed, Dice/Cass, Hallia, Shanti

 

 

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

[Spadeszee]

 

Yes, because itt has ever meant not in this thread? Don't see how it can be misconstrued once clarified for a newbie

Tigs isn't a newbie and knew what it meant. The question was essentially avoided by just staying what it meant. However Tigs not pushing for an answer is also on my radar. When she truly wants an answer she pushes till she gets it. Scum banter to seem less buddies, perhaps?

 

It seems Tigs is much more worried about trying to prove Eldrick is more scummy than herself right now. I think Tigs and Elrick are the top two scum with Hallia following after (in most peoples opinions) so it would makes sense for Tigs to try to push the more likely vote off of herself by making a case on Elrick. Makes me think Tigs and Elrick aren't w/w together. 

 

I do see a deflection, but I also know Hallia to sometimes miss the point of questions like that and I think she may have confused Tigs with you. Regardless, her responses are sort of mixed for me and I'm going to have to look a lot closer at her responses. Seeing Elrick push so hard on this is odd to me, there is more that's been said that can be analysed beyond this interaction and it really just seems like he might be trying to also divert attention off of himself after almost getting lynched last night. 

 

I really think there is a wolf between Tigs and Elrick.

[Eldrick4221]

I'm curious to see if she will continue this for other people, or if this is targeted at me.

[Eldrick4221]

P.s. can't sleep :/

[Spadeszee]

I'm curious to see if she will continue this for other people, or if this is targeted at me.

Who is she?

[Spadeszee]

 

I'm curious to see if she will continue this for other people, or if this is targeted at me.

Who is she?

 

Oh, guessing you mean Tigs.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

I'm curious to see if she will continue this for other people, or if this is targeted at me.

Who is she?

Oh, guessing you mean Tigs.

Yes. Sorry that wasn't clear.

[Eldrick4221]

I've seen it happen with scum way more often than town to start doing something, and stop midway through. If she intends to do this for everyone, I hope to see it.

[Adella]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not convinced that this makes you scum, but it's annoying the hell out of me and making it hard to see you as town.

 

I'd like to get other people's opinions on this.

I think you have a valid point.

 

Eld, what do you think of her response to my comment about the choice of NK?

It is odd; I don't recall anyone saying he was their peek, but I could totally be wrong. Maybe some kind of hunting through killing peeks?

QFR

 

It's interesting that she thinks people listed as peeks would be a nk discussion topic.

 

I hadn't really given much thought as to why he was killed myself. It's usually wifom to try and sort that out. Could be he was town read. Could be they thought they saw a subtle seer hint. Could be they wanted to throw us off.

 

What it reminds me of to be honest is when I was mafia in Seph's Diablo game - it was a vanilla + seer game also, and we had a bit of a heated discussion N1 in the QT. AJ had overplayed his hand trying to draw the NK and made it obvious he was vanilla in my opinion, but Besie disagreed. Thane also thought he was not the seer, but did not follow the logic of needing to kill the seer as early as possible so he decided to let Besie submit the kill on AJ while I was asleep.

 

Later in the game I found myself trying to explain away how AJ's fake peek wasn't seer hunt cleared because maybe the mafia wasn't seer hunting.

 

Obviously it's not the same situation, but her attempt to rationalize the choice of kill in that way specifically raises an eyebrow because it brings to mind trying to come up with an explanation why your teammates did something other than the optimal strategy in a seer game.

 

I looked through Redd's ISO in pretty good detail to come up with his list of reads. For mafia to have thought Redd had a better chance of being the seer than anyone else, if they were looking for the seer, every single peek that was left in the thread would have to have been either by a mafia or on a mafia, because the only thing that might have been interpreted as a seer hint was his unexplained thought that "the pretty new girl" was town. His only other town read was Spades, who he had previously called wolfy and voted. Since by my count there were peeks either by or on 10 other players, that's really highly unlikely.

 

Seems more likely to me that they weren't trying to find the seer. That tells me one thing for sure, Darthe is town. Of everyone else left alive, Darthe is the only one that I am confident would not veer off optimal strategy for a seer game and would be able to get his way if a teammate disagreed.

 

If they weren't trying to find the seer, the most likely reasons to kill someone would be 1) that they are clear town and not likely to be lynched (completely not the case for Redd), and 2) that they saw him as a threat.

 

Redd's last reads before EOD:

If i had to guess a 3 person wklf team right now id say

 

Tigraine

LedZepMan

Hallia

While I agree those are 2 reasons they could have chosen Redd, I disagree that they are the most likely. Finding the Seer I will give you, but that's hard on N1 with so much misdirection in the game to protect the seer. More likely, it's a feint. Everyone knows that once someone is nk'd the town will look at who that person was suspicious of. In every game I have been mafia in, we stayed away from those who were suspicious of us because it would too obviously point the finger at us. Now, I'm not scum in this game, so I can't say it for sure, but I'm sure at least 1 person on that team is likely experienced enough to advise against killing someone who was getting close to them. This isn't any more of a guarantee than your speculation, however I find this option much more likely than the 2nd option you presented. And I find it very suspicious that you didn't mention this as an option at all.

Mention what as an option? A feint? What do you think that implies?

I think basically that we can't say who is scum or not based on who Redd was after on D1 because it's possible that the scum nkd him because he was too close, OR that they nkd him to make us THINK he was too close. I'm not really implying anything, I'm saying outright that this line of reasoning is usually pretty useless. It feels like misdirection from you.

[Eldrick4221]

That was my view as well. No way for us to know why he was killed.

 

What do you think about hally's response, though?

[Songstress]

The only conclusion I have definitively drawn is that the mafia were not seer hunting. There is absolutely zero reason they would have expected Redd to be more likely to be the seer than anyone who left their peek in thread. Given that Alex appears to have been familiar with seer game strategy, it looks pretty clear to me that mafia made a conscious decision not to try to kill the seer.

[Hallia]

Checking in on my five - I'll try to get a reads list up tonight after work that has reasonings

[Adella]

That was my view as well. No way for us to know why he was killed.

 

What do you think about hally's response, though?

I honestly need to be on a computer to do much more replying to people. I am at work for another 2 hours and then dinner and family time until the baby goes to bed. I'll be back later this evening.

[Eldrick4221]

 

That was my view as well. No way for us to know why he was killed.

 

What do you think about hally's response, though?

I honestly need to be on a computer to do much more replying to people. I am at work for another 2 hours and then dinner and family time until the baby goes to bed. I'll be back later this evening.

No rush. Answer it when you get the chance.

[Tigraine]

 

 

Yes, because itt has ever meant not in this thread? Don't see how it can be misconstrued once clarified for a newbie

 

Tigs isn't a newbie and knew what it meant. The question was essentially avoided by just staying what it meant. However Tigs not pushing for an answer is also on my radar. When she truly wants an answer she pushes till she gets it. Scum banter to seem less buddies, perhaps?

It seems Tigs is much more worried about trying to prove Eldrick is more scummy than herself right now. I think Tigs and Elrick are the top two scum with Hallia following after (in most peoples opinions) so it would makes sense for Tigs to try to push the more likely vote off of herself by making a case on Elrick. Makes me think Tigs and Elrick aren't w/w together. 

 

I do see a deflection, but I also know Hallia to sometimes miss the point of questions like that and I think she may have confused Tigs with you. Regardless, her responses are sort of mixed for me and I'm going to have to look a lot closer at her responses. Seeing Elrick push so hard on this is odd to me, there is more that's been said that can be analysed beyond this interaction and it really just seems like he might be trying to also divert attention off of himself after almost getting lynched last night. 

 

I really think there is a wolf between Tigs and Elrick.

 

 

I'm ISOing and doing full reads on every player. I started at the bottom of the list on the OP, if you haf actually read my posts you would've seen that.

 

 

I'm curious to see if she will continue this for other people, or if this is targeted at me.

I plan on doing a full read on everyone. Again, I started at the bottom of yhe list on the OP.   

I've seen it happen with scum way more often than town to start doing something, and stop midway through. If she intends to do this for everyone, I hope to see it.

Ha! have you ever seen a single mother of three do it? I have kids 10, 9, and 1. I don't even get to poop without an audience. But you're right, next time my daughter is crying because she is hungry and needs a diaper change, I'll calmly explain to her "honey, mommy has to finish ISO'ing this whole list before I can tend to you or they'll see me as scum". I don't get bathroom breaks or smoke breaks or quiet time until all of my kids are asleep. The fact that I got as much on yours done as I did has me pretty darn impressed with myself. But regardless, if you plan on ignoring the questions directed at you or brush them off as me not understanding you and everyone else seems to be content to sit back and ignore the post anyway then what's the point. Atm, I am getting my daughter down for a nap. I am not finished with yours, I'm only on the 4th page of your posts and there are at least three more. Should I finish or are you all just gonna brush it off?

 

Eldrick, let me ask you this. If you had just done be a full read on me as I have you, would you have settled for "well you just don't understand me?" No, you wouldn't have. So why don't you address what I have said. Why did you clear me as null/town then 3 posts late had convinced yourself to vote me? Because Redd done nothing more than say "she's wolfy" Why did you call Alex out on every single thing but didn't call redd out on the same exact things??? Could it be you were banking up opposition for when Alex flipped scum? Then Redd, the other person flips town and you look squeaky clean....but NOBODY else seems to find that odd.

[Tigraine]

 

 

That was my view as well. No way for us to know why he was killed.

What do you think about hally's response, though?

I honestly need to be on a computer to do much more replying to people. I am at work for another 2 hours and then dinner and family time until the baby goes to bed. I'll be back later this evening.

No rush. Answer it when you get the chance.

 

I shouldn't be surprised....you are knee deep in double standards this game already.

[Shanti]

Honestly my top scum read right now is Eld. Tigs has picked you apart and you've brushed it off. Deflecting? I don't see scum taking the time to go that in depth just to draw focus off of themselves. If anything it's drawn more attention to her by focusing on you. So, I don't believe you are teammates but I am interested in hearing why you are being so biased.

 

Halli and Led are my next two wuffies. Halli because of her interactions with Alex, mainly. Led because of his lack of substance posts and absence.

 

Tigs was quite high on scum list due to her lack of contribution to the game and her absence. Still remains on the list but if she truly picks each person apart as she has started Eld, I feel that's townie not scum.

[Cass]

Thoughts on skim through (sorry if I miss stuff, am rushing) are

 

Tigs still possi-scummy but I think it's a good idea to let her get her thoughts out ITT either way. See what she comes up with/offers. Playing this game on mobile, with kids, is super hard.

 

Gut says if she's Town and struggling to keep up we'll unduly demotivate her which is -ev. If she's scum we want her to put her thoughts ITT without giving her an excuse to disappear in a huff of AtE.

 

The Eldrick comments may be true read, distancing or baiting, depending on his alignment and hers, and what I really want to seee here is some more interactions.

 

@Tigs, instead of doing big cases right now if you're time limited, can you skim through ISOs and give us flash reads/impressions as you go?

[Cass]

Similarly WRT Halli-Tigs '"itt" is maybe a scum slip?' thing. It could be distancing or true digging on either part.

 

The fact that neither of them push/fight back harder in the initial instance is off for their Town personalities imo. But time is a thing and I also think Halli is one who's more likely to contribute with understanding and encouragement, regardless of her alignment.

 

And I want to see her thoughts ITT too.

 

Alex essentially locatted/stopped giving information partway through, which was an indicator that he was scummy, but it left us with little information and I dont want there to be easy outs for Halli/Tigs to do the same if they're scum.

 

If they're Town, I want their thoughts ITT so we can see how people push them for other things.

 

@Halleh, I missed you'd already posted reads, can you comment on more things with your thoughts/concerns ITT than just Eld/Tig?

 

Especially thoughts on your middle tier where you haven't given them? (Tress, Dice/I and Ed)?

[Cass]

WRT to the Redd kill/not Seerhunting/Darthe is clear from it thing, I still :wub: you Tress but I disagree with the thought process and we need to be careful having a definitive stance on it either way/clearing based on the idea that we know how people hunt.

 

Eg, Redd didn't leave direct peaks but I might have bought him as a chance for the real thing rather than just cover.

 

Playing on the line of Scummy/Town (not scummy enough to be immediately lynchable, with maybe enough for the real scum to consider him a possibility for mislynch);

 

Repeatedly posting song lyrics related to hunting could've been breadcrumbs to reference later on;

 

His only reference to Shanti being

 

"change your font, I don't read calligraphy"

(paraphrased);

 

Wording on Shanti standing out as different to the rest of his play, and being

 

"The only really strong villager I have...";

 

 

And, ending with

 

"For the record I'm villager Ashanti

 

Hope that that helps you solve"

 

When Ashanti isn't a char from the show, but it is a play on Shanti's name...

 

...All of these things would've struck me as clues that he might have been the Seer if I was hunting.

 

So I at least think there are reasons there that might not have been ignored.

 

Shanti being new and effective but possibly coached if Scum, it would be nice to have her clear... but regardless of whether the SHC is a thing or not, IMO she's looking pretty Town for now.

[Cass]

/snip

 

@Tigs, instead of doing big cases right now if you're time limited, can you skim through ISOs and give us flash reads/impressions *of players other than Eldrick* as you go?

*EBWOP

 

 

Cos Eldrick is a polarising player, who is difficult to read/easy to tunnel on for players in either alignment.

[Cass]

Aaaaaaand I'm out for now.

 

Holidays with friends start today so add per sign-ups I'll be scarce/Dice will be in control for a bit.

 

Don't mislynch him or tinfoil because his style is different to mine. He's a good gut player, especially to have around later in the game when Town (look at most of his Town games).

 

:wub: