Question on Faile.

[Babylon]

This isn't what i planned on putting as my first post, but its something that's been niggling at me for the last few days and I'm pretty sure its going to drive me completely mad unless i find out.

 

Now can someone please tell me how old Faile is, I'm sure that she states in LoC that shes the same age as Ewin Finngar which would make her 14 at the start of the EOTW(Not having my books to hand at the moment makes it pretty hard to check) but according to other things I've read lately shes stated as being around the same age as Perrin i.e from the Encyclopedia WoT.

 

Now Ive never understood the dislike for Faile that others seem to have, but that's always been based on me believing her being so much younger than Perrin, now if I've been wrong all these years and she is the same age then i begin to understand why people have a dislike for her, not that I agree with it mind, but i start to understand.

[Demiandre]

Isn't she young indeed? She had a word with her mother because she wasn't old enough to marry. Or something like that. Well, I'd say one year younger than Perrin.

[Sid]

According to Encyclopaedia Wot, Faile is about the same age as Perrin.

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/f/faile.html

 

If there was anything that said her age exactly, I would bet bottom dollar that this site would have noticed it

[A2597]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that she is near Perrin's age, as Perrin wouldn't have married someone much younger than himself (As evidenced by Mat's thought process once he knows who Tuan is, hoping for a couple extra years before they could get married)

[dwn]

The FAQ puts her (based on the LOC reference above) at roughly 3 years younger than Egwene. So she'd likely be about 15 or 16 when she married Perrin.

 

The relevant link: http://steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.7_generalities/2.7.3_birthdays.html

 

-- dwn

[thevillagecouncil]

wow that kinda ruins their whole relationship for me. I always imagined her to be mid-20's. It's kinda where my mind automatically puts fantasy heroes at

[Sharaman]

None of the Ta'veren are mid-20s. They were born within weeks of each other, at the end of the Aiel War so, they're barely 20+. Nynaeve, who claims to be 26, and Min (early 20s) are somewhat older, the other super girls are all slightly younger. Think of them as hormonal teenagers who aren't yet legally allowed to buy a drink in many jurisdictions - that should put all the idiotic "loves me/ loves me not" outpouring of lust in better perspective.

[Luckers]

Wow... really? I did not think Faile was that young. Can someone with the books quote the Ewin Finngar comment? I'm curious to read it.

[dwn]

Wow... really? I did not think Faile was that young. Can someone with the books quote the Ewin Finngar comment? I'm curious to read it.

 

TEOTW: 2, Strangers, 19:

"[...] and Ewin Finngar half fell into the cellar [...] The years separating Rand and Mat from Ewin, only fourteen, were usually more than enough for them to give short shrift to anything he had to say."

 

LOC: Prologue, The First Message, 35:

"'Dav Ayellin, Ewin Finngar, and Elam Dowtry. Run off to see the world because of Lord Perrin's stories about what's out there.' Faile blinked in surprise. Those three were hardly boys. Dav and Elam were as old as Perrin, and Ewin was her own age."

 

It surprised me the first time I realized how young she was, because I'd always thought her perhaps a year older than Egwene and Elayne. (Apparently I suck at estimating age.)

 

-- dwn

 

(Edited to fix a typo.)

[theblacksmith]

Wow... really? I did not think Faile was that young. Can someone with the books quote the Ewin Finngar comment? I'm curious to read it.

 

TEOTW: 2, Strangers, 19:

"[...] and Ewin Finngar half fell into the cellar [...] The years separating Rand and Mat from Ewin, only fourteen, were usually more than enough for them to give short shrift to anything he had to say."

 

LOC: Prologue, The First Message, 35:

"'Dav Ayellin, Ewin Finngar, and Elam Dowtry. Run off to see the world because of Lord Perrin's stories about what's out there.' Faile blinked in surprise. Those three were hardly boys. Dav and Elam were as old as Perrin, and Ewin was her own age."

 

It surprised me the first time I realized how young she was, because I'd always thought her perhaps a year older than Egwene and Elayne. (Apparently I suck at estimating age.)

 

-- dwn

 

(Edited to fix a typo.)

 

WOW, had no idea...someone who is good with the timeline willing to give an exact ount on years between TEotW and LoC?

[Luckers]

No more than one, which means Faile was fifteen when she married Perrin.

 

God damn Perrin, you cradle snatcher. Seriously I would have placed Faile at twenty or twenty-one.

 

And thanks for the quote dwn.

[Hybrid]

Wow. No wonder Faile sucks.

 

Though actually I'm starting to respect her a little more (just a little) on my most recent read through. Help! I'm losing my Faile hatred.

[Elgee]

Faile could be misjudging Ewin's age - Perin commented on how tall and bulky he'd grown. Maybe she added 2 or 3 years to his actual age.

 

I always assumed she was about the same age as Elayne and Egwene, which would be about 17 at the time? Still young, but a bit better than 14 or 15 :P

[Barid Bel Medar]

This would be something to ask Brandon for sure. An interesting question, I did not notice it at all while reading. It sure does put Faile's actions (especially in tSR) into perspective.

[Elgee]

Just had a thought: I'm pretty sure she claimed to have been 16 when taking the Oaths as a Hunter, but I could be wrong. I'll see if I can look that up later today (it would be right after she and Perin met, so book 3?)

[Barid Bel Medar]

East of the Sun Con 17 June 1995, Stockholm, Sweden - Helena Löfgren interview

 

The story of The Wheel of Time evolved during a very long period, in part beginning in the middle of the seventies with the idea of the Breaking of the World, before he found the "final scene in the final book" and began to actually write The Eye of the World. The main impetus from the beginning was the notion of "men breaking the world" (my emphasis), and that men able to channel must be killed, controlled or stopped at all costs for 3,000 years. This led naturally to a society where women had great power and respect.

 

As an example of this, he puts forth Davram Bashere's reaction to Faile being a Hunter of the Horn. His initial negative response does not come from that Faile is a girl, but that she only is 17 years old. Her gender is irrelevant to the issue.

 

I think this means she is 17 when she meets with her dad in LoC.

[Elgee]

Just had a thought: I'm pretty sure she claimed to have been 16 when taking the Oaths as a Hunter, but I could be wrong. I'll see if I can look that up later today (it would be right after she and Perin met, so book 3?)

 

I just looked that up, and I was wrong - she doesn't mention her age, just says "... perhaps I was the youngest..."

[Babylon]

TEOTW: 2, Strangers, 19:

"[...] and Ewin Finngar half fell into the cellar [...] The years separating Rand and Mat from Ewin, only fourteen, were usually more than enough for them to give short shrift to anything he had to say."

 

LOC: Prologue, The First Message, 35:

"'Dav Ayellin, Ewin Finngar, and Elam Dowtry. Run off to see the world because of Lord Perrin's stories about what's out there.' Faile blinked in surprise. Those three were hardly boys. Dav and Elam were as old as Perrin, and Ewin was her own age."

 

 

East of the Sun Con 17 June 1995, Stockholm, Sweden - Helena Löfgren interview

 

The story of The Wheel of Time evolved during a very long period, in part beginning in the middle of the seventies with the idea of the Breaking of the World, before he found the "final scene in the final book" and began to actually write The Eye of the World. The main impetus from the beginning was the notion of "men breaking the world" (my emphasis), and that men able to channel must be killed, controlled or stopped at all costs for 3,000 years. This led naturally to a society where women had great power and respect.

 

 

As an example of this, he puts forth Davram Bashere's reaction to Faile being a Hunter of the Horn. His initial negative response does not come from that Faile is a girl, but that she only is 17 years old. Her gender is irrelevant to the issue.

 

Those are the exact two quotes that got me wondering about her age in the first place, they just don't seem to match up, if she is much younger it explains much of her actions towards Perrin (i.e thinking he should behave more as a Saldaean and getting upset when he doesn't) if not then she needs to start growing up.

 

Think I'm gonna have to throw a sickie for work, max out my credit card, jump on a plane and come to a book signing to find out for sure which is correct.

 

Thanks for the responses, its these small things that drive us mad!

[Sid]

Something that RJ said one time, about this story being told from the characters' points of view, and then mixing that with the Lan quote from WH

 

"You can never know everything," Lan said quietly, "and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyway."

 

Some of the things the characters think are just plain inaccurate, and that is intentional (as per RJ). Even small things like this. It's hard for me to believe Perrin married a 15 or 16 year old girl, but maybe it's possible. It's also very possible that Faile never asked exactly how old Ewin Finnegar is and she assumed he was older because of his recent growth spurt that Perrin comments on in TSR.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am not sure if people missed it or not, but I DID provide a quote from RJ saying she was 17....

 

East of the Sun Con 17 June 1995, Stockholm, Sweden - Helena Löfgren interview

 

The story of The Wheel of Time evolved during a very long period, in part beginning in the middle of the seventies with the idea of the Breaking of the World, before he found the "final scene in the final book" and began to actually write The Eye of the World. The main impetus from the beginning was the notion of "men breaking the world" (my emphasis), and that men able to channel must be killed, controlled or stopped at all costs for 3,000 years. This led naturally to a society where women had great power and respect.

 

As an example of this, he puts forth Davram Bashere's reaction to Faile being a Hunter of the Horn. His initial negative response does not come from that Faile is a girl, but that she only is 17 years old. Her gender is irrelevant to the issue.

 

I dont see it as confusing anymore.

[dwn]

The quotes all line up, given the rough ages given. Faile is 14-15 at the start of the series, 15-16 when she marries Perrin, and 17 when she meets up with her parents in ACoS. She's likely close to 18 as of TGS.

 

She's her father's heir, and thus had a decent education and some measure of responsibility for years, which accounts for her somewhat mature personality. Also, 15 is a young age for a noblewoman to marry (as confirmed by Bashere), but it's not completely silly.

 

Treating teenagers as children is mostly a latter 20th century invention.

 

-- dwn

[Val Mickey]

Does anyone know how old Berelain is?

[dwn]

Does anyone know how old Berelain is?

 

Again, from the FAQ: "Berelain: at most a year older than Rand [TSR: 2, Whirlpools in the Pattern, 57]"

 

The FAQ may not have been updated for KOD (yet?), but it's still one of the best resources for theories and miscellaneous trivia.

 

-- dwn

[alligator]

Wow. Wow. I always put Faile in the early-20s, around Min's age; for some reason I thought she was older than the boys!

This. Changes. EVERYTHING.

 

 

 

But really, her silliness makes a lot more sense now.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Think it through again, guys. 17 when she went off to become a Hunter for the Horn, making her 19-20 now.