So are you misrepping me on purpose?

Fwiw, I think it most likely Darthe died as he was a good player and town. Like Hamilton except he was a wolf, lol. Anything else, as in gets him off someone's case or lays a false trail was completely an extra advantage. But it seems weird to totally discount it, yet propose an even more complicated theory in it's place. It is an undeniable possibility that Darthe's reads influenced the NK one way or another.

So this is where I say it could well be NAI, it could be TWTBAW, but I was wrong about that last game so I'm not saying it. And your notes say I'm defending him for being TWTBAW. Right. Have to point out I'm disagreeing with your paraphrasing.

@Ithillian Turambar Emphasis mine.

Not really. Possible buddying. Saying SD is TWTBAW even though I'm pretty sure I haven't said that without also mentioning mainly how I was burnt with that the game before. I sussed some people. A lot of the mentions in your notes are NAI. Like I comment that Ithi is being aggressive, why is that in your comments so you can mention that I appear in them so often? Obviously I'm biased when it comes your read on me, but all your notes seem cherry picked to back up a different idea of what is going on in the thread. Normally I can follow your arguments pretty well but so far this doesn't feel like real reads to me at all.

I'm not sure I think if anything for any of the others though, lol.

1. Water: we saved Kevin, we purified the Earth Elemental. We did other things setting things free but the bold Kerin was the first I think and easiest to remember and describe.

Your mafia read is that I didn't immediately jump into list reads based on people's first posts? Ok. Well it is difficult to be upset with people sussing you when they have such a strong case, lol.

Bah, just to clarify, the "too narrow a thought process" was a quite from Berf about why Darthe couldn't have been killed simply because he was on the right track in some way. Whereas it totally makes sense they killed him to implicate SD who cleverly got out of it by defending Ithi who was trying to eliminate him (which as in this scenario is the wolf plan, that would make Ithi rather sus) is a much better thought process to apply. Sketches me out a bit. Not sure how I glossed over this the first time, I think I was just ignoring the lengthy explanations about a far-fetched conspiracy theory. But the details are a little unsettling, especially with the "yeah it is a gut read" agreement at the end.

UNVOTE VOTE BERF

I accept this. I am playing vibes mafia and my words are often wordy. I am available for clarifications. Apologies This feels like a back down. Surely there shouldnt be a confusion where you have a gut read and where you think an argument is defense by proxy? Also Berf's quote where he says Sinister makes a case for Darthe was killed to trap him seems a huge stretch. Yes Sinister thinking that Darthe not mentioning him was world-rockingly important seems odd. But to add in Darthe was killed to implicate Sinister and then Sinister argues Ithi is town because that would clear him from this villainous plan... what? But the wolves killing Darthe because his wolf reads (me and Berf) were correct is too narrow a thought process. I'm not sure that we have to be so dismissive of cause and effect being related in ways that make sense. I think until Shad brought it up I had glossed over all the waffle about defense by proxy as just one these things you cannot quite articulate but looking back it seems really incoherent, with this back pedalling to "yeah it is just a gut read" feels really false. Still don't like how unnatural Teph is feeling, but maybe more time will help resolve his alignment one way or the other.

Not sure I understand the offering bit. Some extra info could be handy, though thinking about it, maybe not entirely necessary in a game of multiple choice, but still.

I did, thanks for bringing it up again.

I was working on the assumption that it was based on what Shad said it was based on, but thanks for the idea 👍

OK, gotcha. Not you, then. So glad we cleared this up 👍

Cool, just making sure. Though of course, they could also say they cannot read her but are going with the flow. That would be novel, huh? Probably unlikely though. *side-eyes Shad* But thanks for clarifying, appreciated.

Almost certainly neither do I, that doesn't mean I'm taking anyone else's word for it. To be clear your position is you cannot read Ithi but you are going with the flow rather than leaving her on null?

Yes, but as I am not the boss of you and I cannot order you to produce a read list every 4 hours, you are not the boss of me and tell me I cannot find your activity suspicious. This isn't a criticism of you or your playstyle, but you could have randed wolf. It isn't just about you solving, but about giving town info to base their reads on, and respond, and that allows people to read the responses, and respond, and so on. This is the only way Town can get info. I cannot get a feel of you if you are hiding in the corner. That sounded worse than I intended. So all I am saying is I hope you share your thoughts more, be they uncertainties, be they null, be they negative. Let us see those cogs ticking. Or, er, turning. Whatever cogs do. And I'll still love you even if you are a wolf and stab me in the back, lol 😘

I was agreeing with you regarding Sinister now bringing up the possibility that you were distancing from Peace. We could all be distancing from everyone, it doesn't help solve the game in any way.

Gud, how many times must I tell you, it is not the size that counts! It is what you do with it. And that is what is suspicious about your slanking. You are here, you are not constantly catching up, you're present, reading, reacting, yet to all intents and purposes, absent. You aren't giving your thoughts. You answer questions in the narrowest possible sense. You defend other people without arguing they are town. Now I get you can totally be disoriented by this set up. I get you could be feeling nothing on the Ithi/Sinister argument. But you got to have thoughts. You got to have reads. Not everything can be noncommital. Does Ithi/Sinister feel natural, or T/T, or like a wolf is involved? What Peace? What about the low post count players? What about me? Plus, mine is bigger than yours and Ithi's is the biggest so just no point going there.

I've never heard it but one would assume it is the same as Gee whizz, struth, and crivens. Sort of. As in it is Jesus Christ without taking the wee man's name in vain (the other examples being God's truth, and Christ fend us, here). I was just agreeing with Gud's exclamation.

Reads don't consist of saying, well this person said this so that could mean they are a wolf or it could mean they are town, ad infinitum. What is your read on Peace is not the same as what is the technical possibilities of his alignment. Talking at great length about "maybe/maybe not" does not seem to be helpful except in derailing the thread and muddying any real reads. What are your reads on those people you asked me and Ithi?

Have to say I am starting to get a little tired of this accusation too, lol. I don't know if labelling every single negative interaction between two players as distancing really helps until it is part of a bigger case or pattern.

Maybe not use the word newbie next time, though in all honesty until Ithi said it this was the context I was thinking you were meaning -must have originally missed the newbie word, lol.

Leelou feels town doing townie things. Berf sounds like he is having a bit of culture shock but is down with casual nudity. Gud is slanking in a very suspicious manner I hope she pulls out of. Teph is really sounding very awkward and shooting off one-liner suspicions and reactive posts instead of hunting or discussing. Hopefully he to will warm up before EoD. Peace appears to on a different planet from me. Not sure how to read him. Is he being rather clumsily a wolf or is this like his "I'll get people more active" plan last game that just didn't go to plan? For a vibes-based game, top two are positive vibes for me, if rather weak for Berf and negative for the other three with Teph at this point rocking the ping-o-meter rather hard. Would prefer to be more certain, but that is what I have got.