Thats not right. The male channelers gifted the Ogier the ways and the means to grow them so the Ogier did not have to deal with the longing as thanks for sheltering them. The Ogier then grew them to the groves they planted in cities where they also did the stone work.

They were unarmed vs a heavily armed opponent. It's the equivalent of all the Aes Sedai being shielded vs unshielded BA. At no point did I say it was impossible for people to be ambushed. Yet again the initial argument from other people was that the loyal Aes Sedai could not produce shields because they lacked the training or experience to do so. It is not unacceptable for me to reference the fact that an untrained channeler managed to insta cast a shield in relation to this argument.

So the collar is not a weapon but then she can attack through the collar after it is on? Are you reading what you are writing. And this despite her clear intention to use it to kill Renna after it is on.

You said it was Egwene's belief that Renna was no longer Sul'Damane that allowed her to attack and not the bzzt of the collar. If that is true then the moment Egwene believes that, collar or not, she is not subject to the prohibition about attack.

Did you read it? According to testimony from witnesses, Hasan passed up several opportunities to shoot civilians, and instead targeted soldiers in uniform,[22] who – in accordance with military policy – were not carrying personal firearms He was incapacitated by the 2nd armed officer that responded. So no another terrible comparison.

You said it is her belief that makes it work not the collar. So once Egwene realised that Renna is simply uncollared Damane then that belief makes her no longer Sul'Damane by your own argument.

Thats a specific ability with significant consequences attached to it.

Terrible example. The majority of the dead are students not police. It's really a terrible comparison.

Yet a woman who had never channeled herself before did when surprised.

You won't accept it so i will engage with your reasons. Need. So the sitters had no need. They were in as much need as Daise if not more. 1,2,5 Both were surprised, shocked and panicked, If anything Daise would be far more likely to be affected than a group of heavily trained and practiced sisters. 3 Daise would definitely not know the weave. All those sitters had no specialty in that area and an untrained day one channeler does. 4 No idea the magic system is woefully under explained but it would seem unlikely that the brand new channeler is a unicorn for shield making as opposed to some of the most powerful channelers in the Tower. 6 They were doing little of either. No answer I give you will change your mind. Remember this was not my argument others used it against me arguing it as the reason why the sitters could not make shields was no training and no practice.

Well if you are making the collar irrelevant then the moment Egwene believed Renna could channel then she could have attacked her as she is simply uncollared.

The rest of the post was not required to answer. A number of people stated that the reason the sitters could not erect shields was lack of practice and lack of training. Your excuses for why are irrelevant because they are not the argument these other people made. Your assertion that it was my bias and dismissing me on that basis was relevant and is why I posted that part of the comment in in quote. The others argued for that not me. I feel it is relevant to bring it up when you see a complete untrained character produce that skill which centuries old masters are incapable of. Maybe you might want to check your hostility to me a bit and think about it.

That is not how that works. Renna is still Sul'Damane because of the bracelet. Being Damane does not cancel out the other. The very fact that she would accept the feedback loop is evidence that she is subject to the rules of the A'dam and thus Damane.

Exactly the same as Alanna's shield in the previous episode when the the bolts kept breaking holes in the shield.

One of the arguments people used when defending the scene was that the sitters did not know how to shield themselves and years with no practice left them unable to do it, you are now claiming that my bringing it up after a completely untrained first day channeler managed to form a shield is me being purely biased. Come on.

However that does not account for why the sitters failed to be able to make shields which many attributed to the fact that they had not been trained to do so in relation to the tower battle scene.

What? When Egwene put the collar on Renna they became linked in the manner of Sul'Damane and Damane running in both directions. This has nothing to do with the Seachan view on the linkage it is purely the mechanics of the linkage. Egwene by the mechanics of being Damane cannot channel the power without permission. So for her to use the power she must Use the Sul'Damane mechanic. Egwene using the one power hangs Renna. Egwene is choked at the same time Renna is hanged by the mechanic of being Damane to her Sul'Damane. Egwene as Damane should not be capable of attacking Renna by the mechanic of being Damane to her Sul'Damane. The scene makes no sense by the mechanics of the collars. The viewpoint of the Seachan in regard to Damane does not matter.

When Egwene collars Renna she is both Sul'Damane and Damane, If she is not Sul'Damane she cannot touch the source without permission or use Renna power.. If she is not Damane she would not be choked by Renna being choked.

They are both as shown by Egwene being choked as Renna's Damane.

I'm not sure using star wars is that great an example anymore as light saber wounds are now constantly shrugged off.

The pitcher is not normally a weapon she had to convince herself that after she thought of it as one that she would never imagine using it as one again. How are you going to convince yourself that hanging is not an attack especially as she intended to kill her. The fact that the collar was still working to strangle Egwene seems to indicate that it was still functioning as if she was collared so the thought of using the collar to attack should have been impossible.

No ones ever really gone.

Any change in feeling now we know that Daise Congar a first time channeler can insta cast a shield as her very first use of the power. Surely experienced channelers would be better than a woman who found out she could channel the day before and had never embraced the source by herself before that day.

Well I am seriously hoping that they look at the fact that episode 4 was clearly the best received in this season if not the entire series and change course. Outside this I hope the show is cancelled as it is not good enough to warrant continuing.

LOL She convinced herself that hanging someone was not an attack. They broke the rules it was not some clever ruse they simply broke the rules. Which say it together class makes it bad writing.