7 hours ago, Shawlee said:

 

 

 

I don't know what you mean by here, but if you mean in my post(and my opinion); well, simply because he always felt like my near brother (younger than me), also because it is my interpretation... No one else has to like it. 

Fair enough, always Intrested in different peoples views of character actions in the books.

On 10/29/2023 at 4:08 AM, Sabio said:

In the companion I think that mentions female trollocs stay in the blight and are mostly used to breed.  

If you ever needed proof the shadow is evil, it wants it's females staying at home, raising the kids and cooking dinner while the men go out and earn a living. I bet they all worship an orange man with bad hair, and blame everything on those pesky Aiel crossing the border. 

On 10/24/2023 at 7:11 PM, EirikDaude said:

Yep, I guess it was the talk of it being part of a network which made me think of it. Ofc, there are some ter'angreal which benefit from their shape, like the portals or wasn't there talk of a kindle-like device somewhere?

You know I never even made the satellite dish link until now lol, I almost want the bowl of the winds in the TV show now, an old TV dish with a pointy bit sticking out of it in the middle 🙂 

On 10/27/2023 at 5:00 PM, Pandemonium said:

Hey it beat out the gen v show debut which is Amazon's next big show.  I tried watching the show and couldn't get past the first scene yet where girl poops all the blood and gore on the toilet

They have decided to go all out on the shock factor for the Boys spin off, I mean, I can't blame them, the opening scene of season 3 with Termite was, well, both brilliant and gross all at once lol. 

But I agree the spinoff is not as good as the main story. 

On 10/29/2023 at 4:30 AM, Sabio said:

ROP wasn't great, an average series to me.  But some of the complaints about ROP isn't fair simply because the The Tolkien Estate imposed creative restrictions on the series and limited the lore and resources, plus Amazon only bought the rights to LOTR and the Hobbit.  They were forced to get most of the information for the series from those.  They had no choice but to make a lot of stuff up.  WOT pretty much had no such restrictions.  

Sorry the "creative restrictions" did not mean that Galadrial had to save Sauron from drowning, or have the stupid Mithril will save the elves, or the condensced timeline squeezing what 3-4000 years of lore into 250, 

Not having the Hobit or LOTR didn't stop the writers shoehorning Hobbit adjacent characters in, or getting us forgetful Gandalf, 

There was plenty of stuff in the Simarilion to make a really good story without making all those changes and more. The main thread was there, you just have to flesh it out with good story writing, not the absolulte gumpf we where given. I really wish Rafe had been given ROP budget so we could have had the size and scale of ROP with his story. 

On 10/28/2023 at 1:42 AM, Berty1102 said:

This whole show is a train wreck if you know and loved the books. They could have done a season for each book and have enough for at least 10 episodes. It’s bad and I’ve told everyone to watch the show if you are thinking of reading the books. Love the books and the characters from them and how they grow and change but the show has basically kept their names and nothing else. 

No you couldn't because after 3 seasons of watching our main characters run away from a thing, or chase a thing, fall into a trap and then Rand have a big epic showdown the show would have become repetitive and the storyline dull. 

I know I love the books and this is not a train wreck, Witch was a train wreck, ROP was a train wreck, WOT sticks much much much closer to the source material then either of these and the changes make logical sense for showing the story on the screen. 

On 10/29/2023 at 8:48 AM, fra85uk said:

 

Still all the humorous and funny parts of WOT books are lost in the adaptation

 

Of course, the two series have a very different tone but, from Ep. 1 S1, just from the depiction of Em..ehm Two Rivers,  it is clear that they were trying to paint it with a darker tone...and then they filled it with too much non-sense drama/mistery (who is the Dragon, Moraine walk of shame/exile, is she stilled/shielded, the pointless bond storyline) at the cost of incredibly subtracting from adventure, worldbuilding, cool moments and also some funny ones.

What funny moments are in the book, even after multiple multiple read throughs there is nothing that makes me smile or laugh personally? 

On 10/27/2023 at 4:47 PM, Skipp said:

And it is not entirely out of character for someone like Liandrin to actually believe that men channeling taints everything.  People fear and distrust Aes Sedai partially because of the ruin male Aes Sedai wrought.

also Black Ajah it is in character to also give misinformation and lie? 

6 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

That was a good decision. Would you respect rand if he applied his own laws for the common people but made exceptions for those he likes? As a ruler, rand must not play favourites

I agree it was a good decision, my point is that he shows ruthlessness sometimes and then forgets all those lessons in other moments, he is also wiling to sacrifice women in moments, for instance letting them protect him when cleansing the source. 

20 hours ago, Shawlee said:

 

Here we go again.... I did not want to get into this.

 

Well if you think that's true, as a woman myself, who was born in a muslim country and had to face ignorant Men trying to dictate her life, I disagree with you wholeheartedly.  I understand the women's pov( aes sedais to maidens), and would've thought the same if it was a man who was anyone other than Rand Al'Thor. But even after reading and knowing his mind and inner turmoils if you still do not understand him; well If RJ couldn't convince you, what can a lowly reader like me do? 

 

Everyone has their own opinions, and are entiltled to it. So i would just leave it at that. If you disagree please go to another post and rant. 

Why does Rand Al Thor get a bye here? regardless of the reasoning his behaviour is to remove the agency of women. It is the act that matters, not the reason behind it, Rand takes away the rights of women to make free choices, he shows that subconsciously he considers irrational, unable to accept risk unable to make the "right" decisions while he happily lets the men do whatever they want. 

The thing is that goes against even how he thought Eomonds Field worked, the boys often comment on how women of Eomonds field will do what they want and the men have no say. I understand the story, I understand the logic but none of that akes what Rand does ok, none of it makes it less mysoganistic then if he had done it because he didn't think women could do it. 

14 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I have a hard time to understand either, but I can understand one important related fact: having good intentions does not make you right, it does not guarantee you will not make mistakes or take stupid decisions.

 

Rand never had to take morally difficult decisions in his life until he became the dragon. he's completely unprepared for the necessity to choose lesser evils all the time. I think in our western world most of us is at least somewhat aquainted with the notion, since we are all called to vote in politics and choose between many unsavory options; rand is even more unprepared than that. and so tries to draw some lines that he will not cross.

and it's quite the wrong thing to do, and the lines he draws are really dumb anyway. but it was a honest best attempt at a sheepherder turned politician to keep some integrity.

Elayne tried to teach him that, but yet again he refused to learn the real lessons she was trying to teach him. I always try and remember that in many ways if it came out today the story would possibly be considered YA fiction, RJ's strength is his world building, one of his weaknesses is making his hero fully relatable, even at 19 when I first finished the first 6 books I watched rand make horrific decision after horrific decision, in fact much of the early story is people making the same bad choices time and time again (the girls seem to have a real thing for falling into traps). His insistance to "protect all women and take away any of their agency" is still controlling and horrendous even if it comes from a moral place. By refusing to hurt a women he puts the world at risk, I could accept this if not for the fact he willingly hangs an aiel who is friends with him, or sacrifices men at will with no concerns. It is one of the things that grated on me. 

Where some here see that as "realistic writing" I could never, even remotely connect to Rand as a 19 year old, because in many ways he jut seemed dumb. Perrin I got and understood, he was reluctant but he made the hard decisions, Matt, well by book 4 Matt isn't really Matt, he is thousands of memories of men that have done all sorts of things. He is an old soul in a young body. 

11 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Rand does it by accident the first time. It’s when he ends up alone with Avi 

Oh I know he does that, I meant when he learns I do it himself and all the rules around it. 

8 hours ago, Skipp said:

Everyone as in the audience?  Or everyone as in our heros?  Because aside from Verin no one in the White Tower suspects Liandrin and it is possible our heros never return there until much later. 

 

Oh sure, Anvaere knows but who is going to trust the head of a disgraced house.  One whose own son is a Darkfriend.

The girls know, and egwene and Elayne need to pass the accepted test. Moiraine knows, and will get word to siuan, enough people know now. Liandrin will run and the girls will go to tanchio to follow just like the books. 

11 hours ago, Shawlee said:

I also want to point out the fact that they didn’t really go anywhere with this Alanna vileness. It just another way to make rand hate the aes sedais. Which was kinda made unnecessary, as the box would serve as a solid reminder of Moiraine's words of not to trust any aes sedais. Well not unnecessary, but to play the force bonding card twice within 2 books, with two of the main characters just seemed repetitive.

 

Rand AND Lan got forced bonded. The wo real gentlemen! Come on robert! Are you saying being a decent man with immense respect for women will get you raped? That's what bothered me. 

 

And they didn't go anywhere with it. And I saw some people pointed out it gave rand the warder benefits. Yea maybe getting the girls to bond him should've been done earlier. Anyway, thats my thoughts on that vileness with Alanna. 

 

I know not very well thought out, but I just woke up, and every time I remember that it just boils my brain.

I mean I don’t see an issue with either situation, it made perfect sense to bond Rand, and for lab it was for his own good, I think to claim they where “raped” is a bit extreme, especially given that Rand it turns out can’t be “compulsed” but he bond. 
 

As readers we only think it is a bad thing Rand is force bonded because we are told it is, if we had been told it was ok we would be fine with it, it is an artificial thing that really has no bearing on the story in the long term, Rand even gets over it fairly quickly. 
 

The scene we never got I wanted to see was Alanna actually finding out the others had bonded him. Although that also made me wonder at the last battle, would Alanna dying have had anywhere near the same effect because the girls where bonded to him as well? 

20 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

She is also the reason that no one else tries, and it gives Rand all the benefits of being a Warder without actually needing to have any sort of other attachment going on. 

But she herself plays no real part in the story in terms of role, she has no real arc, she is a character who just kind of exists, for me it is part of the reason why there is no real tension at the end. I don’t care about her enough in the books to feel any real emotion about her final fate, and it felt like there were no real stakes. In the tv show she is getting a real arc which we know will end at the last battle, 

14 hours ago, Samt said:

I'm not saying that it's not clear.  Just that it has the element of Moiraine and the forsaken doing things because the prophecy says that it is supposed to happen.  It gives the feeling that the dragon is a passenger and marionette figurehead rather than a prophesied leader and hero that the pattern created in order to fight the shadow and save the forces of light.  

 

I was going to say this.  In the books, Traveling for men and women are very different weaves.  Egwene deduces how to travel for women through her knowlegde of Tel.  Rand learns it for men although I can't remember if it is through recovered memories, something he observes the forsaken do, or something that Asmodean teaches him.  

I think Asmodean teaches him to skim 

14 hours ago, BenPatient said:

I am okay with that as a trope subversion, actually, although I wouldn't give Rafe & Co credit for doing it on purpose unless they give us a scene (maybe next season, before Rhuidian?) where Rand goes off on Moi (or Lanfear) because they keep taking away his agency and forcing him through the prophesy checklist. Then he completely bails on them (or maybe they both fall through a doorway?) and he does something on his own. 

 

Who are we kidding...Eggy will probably save Mat from darkhounds, re-learn Traveling, and break Rand out of the Red Aja box. 

 

I expect they will keep Siuan around for most/all of S3. Elaida will be introduced early, they will clash all season. Maybe they push the Tower coup back a bit, and skip the whole "Little Tower" plotline entirely, and Siuan accidentally allies with the Black Ajah via Liandrin when they try to capture/control Rand. We certainly got hints of "Tower wants the Dragon under lock and key" from S2. 

 

S3 has to be mostly the Waste for Rand, Mat and Eggy. Perrin will do some version of Emonds Field. 

There is no “Liandrin being a secret” now, everyone knows 

14 hours ago, BenPatient said:

I am okay with that as a trope subversion, actually, although I wouldn't give Rafe & Co credit for doing it on purpose unless they give us a scene (maybe next season, before Rhuidian?) where Rand goes off on Moi (or Lanfear) because they keep taking away his agency and forcing him through the prophesy checklist. Then he completely bails on them (or maybe they both fall through a doorway?) and he does something on his own. 

 

Who are we kidding...Eggy will probably save Mat from darkhounds, re-learn Traveling, and break Rand out of the Red Aja box. 

 

I expect they will keep Siuan around for most/all of S3. Elaida will be introduced early, they will clash all season. Maybe they push the Tower coup back a bit, and skip the whole "Little Tower" plotline entirely, and Siuan accidentally allies with the Black Ajah via Liandrin when they try to capture/control Rand. We certainly got hints of "Tower wants the Dragon under lock and key" from S2. 

 

S3 has to be mostly the Waste for Rand, Mat and Eggy. Perrin will do some version of Emonds Field. 

I mean in the books Eggy does re learn traveling 

5 hours ago, Samt said:

I think one of the problems with combining the books in the way that they have is that in the show Rand is the dragon only because Moiraine thinks he is the dragon.  He hasn't really fulfilled any prophecies beyond Moiraine just making sure that he fulfills those prophecies.  By removing Callandor and making the battle in the sky into a dragon illusion that Moiraine created, they have made it so Rand never actually does something that proves he is the dragon.  

Show Rand definitely feels like a Katniss style puppet rather than an actual hero of his own story.  

I mean no, Rand was teh Dragon because he was the Dragon the prophesies where to prove to the rest of teh world he really was the Dragon and the last battle was coming. Moiraine could not have found another male channeler and made them dragon at all. 

1 hour ago, Max Delpo said:

They should keep Alanna bonding Rand but, with more development

Yes she did it in the books and then nothing much happens with it other then her sometimes pointing to where he is. Until the end when she vanishes and the is at the last battle 

Well Tear would have been mentioned as a location for season 3 if it was going to be in it. So I think that confirms it, if it ever does appear then Tear will be after the events of the Shadow Rising. 

We are not getting tear in season 3, so my query is where will Matt be racing to? 

7 hours ago, Skipp said:

I am thinking they will drop the Lan aspect of that.  They have already played that card during season 2.  Now that might mean they are foreshadowing it for a later season but I think the other bonding is more impactful. 

 

And with all of that it allows Lan to meet up with Nynaeve sooner which considering their chemistry and potentially only 8 seasons isn't a bad thing. 

I don't think they will drop this aspect, the fact that we have not seen Lan lose his bond, suicidal depressed Lan be sent to save Nyanave I think means we will see that in season 4 and in this case it makes no sense for Alanna to have Lan and Rand both bonded. 

now it is possible that Moiraine simply has Nynaeve as the person she hands Lan's bond over to, and she tries to heal Lan herself? 

18 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Nope. The Nielsen ratings are delayed a month...
I'm not sure about international numbers... I think there is something but I don't have a link to it.

19 hours ago, nsmallw said:

Do we know Nielsen ratings for the season as a whole ?

 

And also, is there a comparable thing to Nielsen in the rest of the world ?

Because I remember hearing that ratings were higher outside usa. 

There are a variety of ratings agencies all over the world, Nielsen isn't even the main one in America anymore. They are just the one with the biggest name recognition. But I don't know if anyone will provide the viewing ratings world wide. I am also interested in finding out the splits, so what is the demographic watching the show. I am also interested in how Nielson now select households based on Streaming availability, so do they pick households that have access to all the streamers, are households willing to be Nielson viewers more or less likely to use a streaming service, it feels like streaming has made the accuracy of getting TV viewership numbers the old fasioned way harder, especially as it can be consumed on so many devices now, so will Nielson pick up someone watching WOT in the household on a phone, or tablet?  

15 hours ago, Shawlee said:

Could be a complete speculation honestly, and I want people to tell me if this is wishful thinking but do you think Elayne just bonded Rand on the season 2 finale? I have a feeling they are bringing/replacing the Birgitte Bonding story line forward? I mean if you notice the weaves passed between Lan and Moiraine in the scene where she reopens the bond, and there was a weave for a moment that passed from elaine to rand, it looked identical. It could just be they are using all 5 elements and mistook that as warder bond weave. However, even Nynaeve can't heal a wound from shaddar logath dagger. It was Flinn and the two yellows together that saved Rand, when he got stabbed by it. This is not a wound that can be healed with only saidar, it needs saidin as well. I DON'T KNOW but I have a feeling they might just make the storyline where only reason Elayne could heal him is because she tethered Rand to her life-force. What do you think 🤔?

No, we saw the Bonding weave in that same episode when Moiraine re bonded Lan.