17 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

While I wouldn't want to spend much time with her, either, I actually really like her as a character - she fulfills the crotchety old woman matriarch role for the AS that Sorilea does for the Aiel. The ones who are so experienced, powerful and respected that they no longer have to suffer the children's dominance games that the others play. They're not nice people, but they're foundational people to cultures.

Her heavy handed, purposeful rudeness while demanding manners from others is insufferable.  I love crotchety characters like Lady Violet Crawley of Downton Abbey.

Fairly youthful is closer to agelessness than obvious age.  Sorry you didn't like my example.  My point is that they could have used make up.  Not that hard or expensive.

5 hours ago, Ralph said:

They said they could, but it would eat a huge amount of budget to have to CGI so many frames. Same with Warders' cloaks

Why couldn't they have done the ageless look with makeup?  Skin a little too tight, hair a little too thin without the 'lustre' of youth....

Catherine could be 25 here, she could be 45?

18 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I'm fairly sure the words "might" or "considered" were involved in that, and at the end of the day, she didn't. So if that's what is was, that's way less than Alannah or certainly Tylin did.

I'd spend less time drinking beer with Cadsuane in a bar than maybe any other character in the series.

30 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

She wasn't nearly as burnt as the others

Exactly.  She was just Mostly Dead!

Credit to the other poster who wrote mostly dead well before me.

11 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Not sure which character development has accelerated? 

He had Perrin fridge a non-existent wife for one.  He spent an episode on the warder bond for another.

4 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

I would keep the main cast the same.   

 

I would have made the Shainarans Japanese, in order to simplify the casting and make it more consistant.  Plus it would give an excuse to have Ken Wananabe as Lord Algamar.  You could literally take the whole cast of the Last Samurai minus Tom Cruise.  Hiroyuki Sanada would make a great Uno.

 

I would also simplify Tear, making them Spanish to match their primary cultural basis

I agree with everything you've written here.

38 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Bookcloaks is derogatory. They prefer to be called Children of the Page..

Best laugh all day

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

The details are very different when looked at closely but the road map is similar.

You can fly from New York to LA but isn't the drive across more interesting?  Jordan took us along an excellent path.  Even if you argue that Rafe is driving (in this analogy) and we'll end up in LA, I don't like the route he's chosen.

20 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Rand still has time to experience that type of power before he begins his fall.

How many times have we had to endure the "wait, I'm sure they'll somehow show that later" defense?

It's not about the difficulty of condensing these book to an 8 year series.  If they have time for it later, they had time for it now.

Fever dream before the stupid dragon reveal vs in EF?  I hate that decision.

1 hour ago, CanisNoir said:

Yes, we see flashy displays of raw untrained power from the ladies, but, in my opinion, that is the wrong thing to look to for examples of being elevated, especially when those displays don't really prevent the over all failure that occurrs. 

I personally enjoy the visceral...

Dumai's Wells is one of my favorite scenes in the series.  Mat's battles outside Carhein are another.

Maybe it's the latent cave man in me.

So interesting how different people read different things (in no way am I saying anyone's take is incorrect).  I've had them as middle-English with bel tine, something like a maypole, goodwife, thatched roofs, etc.  I think that was prompted and reinforced by the book's cover art.

20 hours ago, Testeria said:

Really reading the book I now see all two rivers people (except Rand) as of south Indian physique.

I'm interested in this take.  What are the cues or descriptions that lead you to this?

My wife is out of town for a couple of days and I had been thinking I'd re-watch the series while she's gone.  Funny thing.  Last night I watched Aliens on cable instead.  Commercials and all.

On 1/4/2022 at 4:58 PM, AdamA said:

The stuff about Lan is nonsense. It's hard to read how picky people are about his portrayal, like anything less than a Chuck Norris meme is betrayal of the character.

Lan portrayed is not Lan as written.  Lan as written is quiet, stone faced and outwardly unemotional.  When I read him, I could feel the quiet in an in when he enters....  If you want to compare it to Chuck Norris you could, but that's not how I view Lan.  Lan's badassery prevents trouble.

Think Snake Pliskin meets Maximus

2 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Mat and Perrin become military masterminds with no military background.

Perrin wins through dogged determination to do what's right.

Mat had holes in his memories filled with those were were rightfully military masterminds.

3 minutes ago, CanisNoir said:

The only female main character that had any semblance of Agency at the end was Moiraine and she messed it up badly. Meanwhile, every single male main character not only had agency but made, for the most part, the morally correct choice.

You've stated your arguments well.  The issue is that we don't get to see 'badassery'.  Perrin killing whitcloaks that were attacking his wolf friends would be one example.  Lan's constant work scouting ahead with Moraine and Nynaeve is a more subtle example.  Even Lan teaching the boys about their weapons is gone.

Meanwhile, Nynaeve power heals a bunch of people at once.  The ladies kill thousands of trollocs that made short work of a nation's entire army, etc., etc., etc.

14 hours ago, AdamA said:

But we never saw an Ogier stabbed with it in books, so that is an easy get-out if they want

They clearly don't follow many things in the books.  They don't even need a 'get-out' to continue on as they started.

Nynaeve  - Also in 1883,  Stephanie Nur

18 hours ago, AdamA said:

Elayne proved they weren't needed

True but now they've taken away another moment from one of our loved characters.

I've been a fan of Yellowstone over the last couple of years.  I think it's a great, compelling show with solid acting and excellent casting.

I just started watching its prequel 1883 and it brought home to me how poorly WoT stands up.  In comparison, the acting on WoT is comical - even Rosamund Pike's.  Character development is non-existent.  Music underwhelms.  Sets underwhelm.  Casting on Wot is jarring.  My wife (who has not read WoT) rates 1883 a 10 and W0T a 3.  She's only watching it at this point because I am.  Watching WoT reminds me of the cartoon version of the hobbit.  Puke.

I understand that a western is a different animal and that the cost structure is different.  We've had 100 years to perfect that genre on film and 70 years to master it on television.  Still, 1883 is excellent TV and WoT is not.

Even though I've been an outspoken bookcloak on this forum, I've not personally attacked Rafe.  I will say I wonder what this would have looked like with Taylor Sheridan as the show runner.  

I just started watching 1883 last night (I'll post more on another thread) and THIS is Elayne...

Elizabeth May

On 12/23/2021 at 10:08 AM, Sabio said:

"I know who you Aes Sedai are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I herd sheep so I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my son go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you."

That's awesome!

21 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Um, but they did tho. They had to reintroduce Coke Classic.

Proves the point.  They thought they needed a change to box out the sweeter Pepsi product.  Turns out people don't always like change so much. (that and your body really likes the specific caffeine vehicle it's addicted to). 

On 12/29/2021 at 5:06 AM, notpropaganda73 said:

But I think the biggest problem is just how they are writing the character. I don't find her engaging or interesting in any way whatsoever. We are told she has huge potential but really outside of burning away Perrin's restraints in the Whitecloak scene, there hasn't been any earned moments that have shown her determination and potential. The final scene with Nynaeve was just bad, I didn't come away from it thinking she had levelled up or anything. 

 

To be honest she reminds me a little of Bella in the Twilight series, sort of an empty vessel of a "character" so far. 

This applies to so many of the characters at this point.  An episode on the warder bond wasted vs allowing us to get to know the characters in more detail and seeing each of them grow.  A bad trade in my opinion.