2 hours ago, TheSmurf said:

Val Kilmer as Perrin is mighty weird to me ?

I can't get that one either!?!?

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

Something that people would do well to remember is that Harriet has probably seen the full storyboarding or outline for season 1 at the least, so would have a good knowledge as to why the show has gone in the direction it has. - Fair point

 

Outside of that I find it a little distasteful to talk about really. Robert Jordan is unfortunately no longer with us, we have absolutely no idea how he would feel about the TV show, about how Brandon finished the series, about what he'd think about anything really. The closest person that would know is Harriet, and it's not fair to put anything "on" her in terms of the show, how upset we are about certain things, or any of the rest.  - She is a public figure at this point.  It is fair for me to wonder why she feels this is a good representation of their work.  Maybe she'll say more in a later interview.  I may end up saying something like "oh dang!  I didn't think about it that way!", or I may say "WTF?  That makes no sense!".  We'll see.

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

So, "charm" isn't really an effective answer as Rand has had ample opportunity to demonstrate his charm (as well as his stubbornness, temper, and tendency to go to high places when he needs to think). 

See but for me charm is a huge issue.  This series was charming.  The main characters were each charming in their own way.  Great strengths, somewhat endearing foibles.  I don't see that in this version.  Maybe that's why scenes were sacrificed.  Maybe charm wasn't important to the show runner.

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

It's one thing to find the appearance out of sync with our own headcanon and being annoyed at that, it's another completely to disregard his entire character going forward because he's not tall enough. 

Agreed.  

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'd ask you this: what key book moment have we missed? I can think of only two so far:  Perrin did not kill a Whitecloak (at least he hasn't yet), and Rand did not fall into the palace Garden. Otherwise, the main beats of EotW are all present in the tv show. 

Here is one:  Nyn vs Moraine with the rest present at the Queen's Blessing.

Here is another: Perrin meeting Elyas and the wolves - Perrin's interaction with the wolves so far is less than understandable for anyone who hasn't read the books

Here is another: I guess I'm the only person here fixated on Rand's journey with the flute.  At the end of his journey, he goes of into the sunset content to explore the land.  The book doesn't mention the flute but the feel of it is there.

17 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

See my notes.

18 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

No fever dream (yet - heavily implied will be done in a flashback) - Why would that be better than original?

No learning the sword (yet - will undoubtedly happen by early S2) Only a prediction

No questions about his possession of a heron mark sword (yet) Only a prediction

No standing atop a ships mast and the hi-wire journey down (why does this matter?) Foreshadows him channeling.  Charm.
No flute (yet - also, why does this matter?) Character development.  Charm.  Set up for an interesting scene with Selene in TDR. Provides some fairly reasonable financial path for their travels vs no available cash in Baerlon and enough cash to cover 3x pricing in Tar Valon.

No Else (why does this matter?) Misses an opportunity for Perrin to Needle Egwene.  Charm.

No Elayne (yet - we know she's coming in S2)

No Elaida fortelling Rand's impact (would ruin the 'who is the Dragon' theme)  Did it ruin Jordan's telling?

No almost fight with a White Cloak (why does this matter?)  Better set up of White Cloak mentality.

56 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Well...Elayne knows Mat. Do you think she'd have recognized the letter as being from him if he wrote it as a particular general?

I didn't say he had to write it as a general.  Mat grew through the story.  He could have made his point with childish insults and shared experiences to make her blush.  

17 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

She was his editor! So her influence over the finished product is fairly profound.

Not my point.  If her influence was strong (and I believe it was), it follows that she had consensus (at a minimum) with him on his story.  How does that square with this TV departure?  Did she not actually approve of the original version?  She obviously had disagreements.  That's part of the editing process.  I'm speaking of wholesale change.

There was plenty of documented commentary on how Sanderson tried to closely follow Jordan and how important it was to her.  Why not now?

56 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Maybe, she's better at the storytelling game (from her experience as a professional editor) than some fans?

 

Ouch.  Was she a better storyteller than RJ?  Did she disagree with him in some manner we don't know about?

23 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Steppin. I am amazed at how many people seem to forget Moridins and the Dark Lords hail mary tactic right at the end, force Rand to have to be bonded in order to survive, then kidnap the Aes Sedai who makes the bond and kill her in front of Rand at the bore so he goes full on lewis therin and destroys the wheel. Steppins story is key to explaining that really important moment to an audience. This is a great place to put it in the story because it comes across as world setting and defining and not a key important point. Nyn has witnessed and been part of Steppins story meaning she will have close knowledge and understanding of it at that last battle when she realises she needs to save Alanna and get her to drop the bond. This story thread is such a key part of the final battle, it defines if the dark one wins or loses and for the rest of the series now Steppin can be called back to in little moments, just to remind the audience of what happened to him.

Again.  Jordan set this up in his own way throughout the story.  It didn't need to be done with a rushed, fabricated scene at this point.  Yes I know there are 8 episodes and potentially 8 seasons.  There is plenty of fluff that could have been condensed without resorting to this level of change.

26 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Rand has not been put aside, instead every character is having moments to shine and develop. This is an ensemble project with multiple leads.

No fever dream

No learning the sword

No questions about his possession of a heron mark sword

No standing atop a ships mast and the hi-wire journey down

No flute

No Else 

No Elayne

No Elaida fortelling Rand's impact

No almost fight with a White Cloak

Instead we get him mooning over Egwene and Lan ripping his shirt open.

1 hour ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

I mean... are you being serious? Loial is shorter than the books so that's it, the character is useless? Really? 

Loial has an odd sense of grandeur (to me) in the books.  He comes off as young and unsure yet also wise because he's looking at humans through a different lens.  This effect is magnified through his height.

This isn't grandeur...  I'm sorry about the obvious over exaggeration with my example but I was shocked by the appearance of TV Loial (not in a good way).

I'd seen Jordan's choices in writing but these photos help.  I don't like Nicole Kidman as Aviendha but I really like the young James Garner as Mat.

Who would you cast???

On 12/2/2021 at 4:37 PM, Sir_Charrid said:

As to Mat being Bland later on, he has the memories of the greatest Generals of the age in his head, he has accepted that he will be leading the armies at the last battle and has accepted he must marry his destined wife. He has grown up and matured way beyond his years and so has lost that cheeky side. but he still has my fav moment of anyone in the books, a moment they have to show in the last season. Him wading out into the last battle with the Seanchan just to get a feel for the flow, and that look of respect he gains from those that go with him as they realise that actually, he is Da Man

The largest problem I had with Sanderson's version of Mat was the letter to Elayne filled with egregious spelling errors.  Mat could be coarse but he did have the memories of generals in his head as well as the books they read.  He could have made his point with childish insults and shared experiences to make her blush.  I felt the letter was out of character at that point.

TV Mat?  To me, he is unrecognizable (and unintelligible).

56 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Then why doesn’t it have Harriet in a rage? She was as much a part of these books as Jordan was. 

This question makes me lose sleep.  For the life of me, I can't fathom how she would approve of this.

21 minutes ago, WhatsaSeawolf said:

Robert Jordan crafted an incredibly nuanced and detailed world that came more alive with every page, full of life, intrigue, and humor.  None of that is present in the show.

Well said.

16 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

How about the writers focus on what's in the books and not fabricate time-wasting scenes?

100% agree.  WOT was well written.  There is no need to introduce fabricated scenes to help people understand a concept that isn't proportionately relevant until later in the story.  Use the story's scenes to do that as they were originally written.

The fact that Lan's scene at the funeral is so debated is a strong indicator that the effort failed.  Did Jordan's development of Lan throughout the books fail?  Did the understated scenes with Nyn traveling with Lan and Moraine fail?  Did the scene by the lakes in Malkier in the blight fail?

I get that there are almost polar opposite views on this so I'm not sure my argument will change anyone's mind.

Sorry, we are going to disagree here.  She's proud of her heritage.  She thinks wealthy/noble Moraine is spoiled.  She constantly uses phases like "you'll find yourself caught in a net full of silverpikes".  She's the Seat because of her strength, not her birth or upbringing.

59 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Do you think Siuan - as the Amyrlin seat - ever allowed anyone to think of her as the daughter of a fisherman? Not a chance. That vibe should be nowhere close to what she portrays when she's sitting in that chair.

She's pretty blunt almost anywhere we see her in the books.  She never lets anyone forget that she's the daughter of a fisherman.

There has been a lot of conversation about the casting and I'm not trying to debate the actual casting again.  I'm wondering how each of you sees these characters?  Who did you have in your mind when you read the book?  If you didn't read it, are there characters you think could be played more effectively by someone else?  For the sake of the thread, you can pick from different eras (as Jordan did with his list) but more points if they are all actors available now.

Rand

A young Brendan Fraser

Mat

Timothee Chalomet 

Perrin

A younger Chris Hemsworth 

Nynave

Odette Annabel

Egwene

Hailee Steinfeld

Moraine- 

Rosamunde Pike was a pretty darn good pick.

Thom Merrilin

Bradly Cooper - Maybe Harry Connick Jr

Loial

A young Forest Witaker

Lan

Henry Cavill

Sorry not in this season but I've always pictured and heard this...

Lanfear

Catherine Zeta Jones

1 hour ago, Theseus78 said:

And sometimes the reality of making a TV show creates some changes.  They didn't have the budget to make the sets for both Tar Valon and Caemlyn.  So, they made the decision for the party to meet back up at TV.

Did I have a brain cloud?  Siuan, Liandrin, Tar Valon Weren't in EoTW.  It didn't have to be a choice.  Use the wheelbarrows full of cash from the first season going to well to build the set for Tar Valon and Cairhein later.

6 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

Proof positive that Mat can get under anyone's skin. 

Classic.  Country bumpkins in the beginning.

They were charming in their faults.  Charming.

I'm not too charmed yet.  Nynave has promise which makes me happy as she's a favorite character for me.

Siuan will be another portrayal that will cause conversation.  From the clip I've seen, gone is the daughter of a fisherman.

Siuan from the book is a salt of the earth, force of will, frank in communication powerhouse.  The clip shows a regal politician who wouldn't have ever seen a silverpike.

19 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

What does that have to do with participating in a funeral ceremony for a friend?

He has a narrow, single minded focus at this point. Support Moraine in her battle against the dark one.  An emotional display is out of character.

They should cast Books with Bianca as Aviendha.  Maybe a little meaner version but that's the look I had in my mind.  Sorry for the thread diversion.