15 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

If we're being fair, I don't feel it's justified to have Stepin commit Suicide.  Warders aren't supposed to suffer grief and be unable to continue, they become single mindedly focused on taking out the thing that killed their sister

True.

Don't mind my grumbling.  The TV retelling has been so, so, so different than what I had hoped.

GOT seemed to get most of it right in my mind.  This has in my mind, gotten so many things wrong.

Until the very end of the entire story, he wouldn't let people acknowledge him as King nor follow him.

48 minutes ago, Ralph said:

In the BtS clip Daniel Henney tries to explain how he has acted Lan as someone who rarely shows any emotion, except that he has been asked to represent everyone at the funeral, and why he felt this is the way to do it. Note there are no tears at all

Would the book Lan have represented everyone's emotion at a funeral?  Don't think so.

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

If they don't really focus on the Warder Bond up front then it risks people assuming Lan just works with Moraine and then when the Bond issues start coming up (Lan and Moraine, Rand and various) it could easily come out of left field and leave people going "What's with the Deus Ex to write Lan out for a while?" 

Assuming this is correct, I still don't feel it's worth the better part of one out of eight episodes.  Poor use of time and resources.

Aes Sedai dies in the Logain battle.  Nynave finds warder dead via suicide walking through the garden later in the episode and Moraine (in front of a TOO STONY FACED Lan) explains the highs and lows of the bond.  Lan gives Nynave a meaningful, yet STONY FACED look.

Done.

On 11/20/2021 at 11:08 PM, Taishar Hawaii said:

What are some reactions to seeing the Trollocs?  

I was impressed with the trollocs.  What I envisioned in the books was a little cleaner somehow.  Almost in the style they used for Loial (obviously still monsterous).  TV Trollocs are an upgrade from book trollocs.

I don't remember any details about the different bands or questions from Lan to Moraine about how they got there?

On 12/3/2021 at 6:53 PM, Skipp said:

Except by focusing on that character nonbook readers get a better understanding of the warder bond and the perils that come with it.

It's just not relevant at this point in the story.  Did they think people wouldn't watch if they followed Jordan's pacing (proportionally with the amount of time allowed)?

I know I'm 90% negative at this point.  I'm going to keep watching and I'm rooting for them but I wonder if 'they' shouldn't have held out for the opportunity to do this story justice and have more time and budget to work with.  Throw the full weight behind season one.  Do it right or don't do it at all.

People have seen so many things I've missed that I'll have to re-watch.  I don't know when I'll find the time.  I'll need to use subtitles as well because I've missed a ton of what's been said.  Mat is almost impossible for me to understand.

The concession I'll make is that these writers do not have the time to open the view behind each of the characters that Jordan had.

We learned about Lan slowly.  Very slowly.  Eight seasons of eight episodes?  I get that they have to speed it up.

My view is that they could have sped it up by condensing some of the travels (how many pages of Rand and Mat were dedicated to the journey to Caemlyn?).    That could have been greatly condensed without morphing to a Tar Valon visit that never happened in the source material.

We will never get to see Faile call Lan "Stone Face" because he'll never be "Stone Face" in this version.

We will never see Rand play the flute, never see him sway at the top of a ship's mast.  But, I guess we get to see him pine for Egwene like Annikan Skywalker.  Awesome.

15 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

4) Perrin explores Tar Valon and ends up working at a forge for the day. Makes himself an axe.

Dear God I hope so.

6 hours ago, Bruan said:

No, your metaphor is quite good. It also highlights the problems I’m having with the show. You see, the story isn’t the destination. The story is the path taken to the destination. You change that path, you change the story. We could both start out in a suburb and walk to city hall. I choose to go through the industrial park and the ghetto. You choose to walk through the green spaces and China town. It doesn’t really matter that we both end up at city hall, we’ll each be telling our own and very different story about the trip.

I also agree that the metaphor is good.  My problem is that they clearly don't have the time or the budget to cover the whole original story.  So why take even more away from the original story with these pointless side shows?  I don't think it's valid to say that the side shows have some other purpose (developing the viewers understanding of the warder bond for example).  Why do that now and in this ham handed manner?  Jordan did that through the original story!

11 hours ago, Weird_Old_Lady said:

Alright sweetie. Whatever you say.

Bless your heart too dearie.

I thought the EF battle was fairly solid.  The battle with Logain's 'army' was laughable.  With each book having a fairly large battle at the end, I hold little hope for them showing anything that looks like large armies.

51 minutes ago, Vartija said:

Curious that they skipped Perrin attacking the Whitecloaks with his axe. 

Does he even still have the axe?  I haven't noticed it since he buried it in his wife's chest?

5 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I know I am in the minority, but I actually enjoyed the funeral scene at the end. I like the beating of the breast and the ceremonial rending of garments as an expression of grief.

Help me if I'm missing a piece of my memory (it does happen from time to time), but is there anything like this in the book?  Anything besides a few people standing near a just buried companion for more than a moment or two?

My feeling is that the borderlanders (including and especially Lan) are so used to death being a part of the journey that the last embrace of the mother is all that's needed.

2 minutes ago, caemlyncal said:

Also its nice that you can watch and enjoy the show with your family and not have to feel overly awkward watching soft core porn like GOT forced on us.

I agree with this.  GOT got a little too graphic at points.

1 minute ago, Dead Warder said:

 

Classic!

5 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

You still think you're getting the Green Man. ?

Touche!

18 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I hated the dwarf prosthetics in the Hobbit movies - but got over it because I liked the rest so much.  Problem is I'm not finding much else to like to distract me from stuff like this.

Given Loial's look, can we expect this for the Green Man?

It was just the way the quote function worked.  I tried to fix it but couldn't.  The quote was from Caemlyncal.

6 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Unlike the nitpickers

 I don't feel that I've been nitpicking.  It isn't just that a detail here and there is off, EVERYTHING is off!

The Witcher series didn't follow the books in a variety of ways but the tone felt spot on.  From the grimy version of Edmonds Field with drunk, womanizer Abel Cauthon, this has felt far, far off.

50 minutes ago, Frenata said:

I suspect largely uncontroversial cuts are:

 * the Shaido, especially as an extended storyline beyond Dumai's Wells -- this is one of the RJ arcs that lingers and lingers and never accomplishes much. Keep the bleakness as a largely off-camera problem for the Aiel but not the organized clan. Luckily this would be also cutting Faile's kidnapping

 

Likely *very* controversially:

 * Cadsuane entirely! Is there really anything that Cadsuane does that rescued-Moiraine can't do, storywise? All that would really seem to be necessary is to move up her rescue drastically, so that she can come back in time to help guide Rand back towards balance. This has the secondary and happy effect that the show can maybe keep their biggest star largely present, with her 'death' happening at the end of season 3/4 and her rescue at the end of season 4/5.

Agree with both of these takes.  I never enjoyed and scene in the books with Cadsuane nor did I enjoy Faile's kidnapping arc.

1 hour ago, WOTReader2 said:

Episode 4 looked promising, but episode 5 was the worst episode of the season. I found it really boring. 

 

What is the point of cutting material from the book if you are just going to add overly elongated scenes about a character who does not even serve a big part? The warder who killed himself was a nobody in the book. It would have been better if he went completely berserk in the last episode and died. 

 

The conversation between Loial and Rand is really rushed and feels awkward. Also, the part where Loial just decides to bring Nynaeve is so random. Terrible introduction of Loial just to make room for the warder.  

 

The Lan thing is weird at the end and is not in keeping with the character at all. He is an experienced soldier who has seen death a lot. Also, the chest thumping scene was cringe inducing and a complete waste of time.

 

They could have driven on the plot or stuck to the books more if they are going to add pointless scenes like that.

100% agree with everything you've written.

3 minutes ago, DermidAjala said:

9 minutes ago, Deviations said:

How will he win the fight at the end of this season???

The same way he did in the books? Without really knowing what he was doing.

 

Also I never realised people thought Rand killing a blademaster 1v1 after less than a years training was something realistic to build up to in the first place haha. I'd not be sweating that one, he'll get some training in Fal Dara and a shot or two at the start of S2 if they want to go that route and that will be enough.

At least he'd had enough training to know how to stand and hold it correctly.  None of that has been established at this point.

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

Why spend all of that time on an Aes Sedai's death and the effects of the bond on a warder?

 

 

Because that is important in the long run

The long run is how many books away when Lan's bond is handed off?  Why set that up now?  Why aren't they more effectively setting up Lan's relationship with Rand, which in the early books, are as important as his relationship with Nynave?

Why waste time and special effects dollars with a ring melting or a procession?  Specific things happened in Camelyn that are critical to the story and the development of each central character.  They cut Camelyn out and filled in with fabricated lesser material.

9 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

They really need to start building some of that stuff up soon.  Otherwise Rand it won't be believable for Rand to defeat a blademaster at the end of season2.  And if they delete that from the show then they have missed some of the best moments in the books

How will he win the fight at the end of this season???